ne14t? Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 First off if you go through my soundcloud no insulting or else, I use it to put up riffs of songs that I am learning to keep a friend interested in learning, so he knows it takes something to learn a song you just dont pick up a guitar and become a god...some friendly competition I guess, they are pretty bad for the most part :D Secondly I think one of my preamp tubes is on its way out or something, I really dont know much about tube amps or the tube technology (soo freaking old) but I went to record a riff tonight and my amp just started making a horrible noise. Marshall Haze 15W Head, guitar running directly into the amp, the rest is explained in the audio clip. This happened today out of the blue, I even removed my pedals from the chain and nothing really helped it, I am stumped any tube masters got any thoughts? Broken Marshall Tube? Thanks in Advance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Hmm...... I didn't hear any " horrible noise "..... I did hear some AC noise, but that has nothing to do with bad tubes..... I heard the guitar feedback, but, that's also normal....did I miss something ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ne14t? Posted June 14, 2011 Author Share Posted June 14, 2011 Hmm...... I didn't hear any " horrible noise "..... I did hear some AC noise, but that has nothing to do with bad tubes..... I heard the guitar feedback, but, that's also normal....did I miss something ??? Yeah that 60Hz hum sound shouldnt be there, it wasnt up until tonight, unleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeess that horrible disease can attack at random, but I figured it would have been there from the start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This_Dying_Soul Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 if the feedback is happening at much lower volumes than normal it could be a microphonic tube. do you have a few spares you can start swapping out with... if it's a bad tube, the problem should go away once the bad tube is swapped out. The hum could be a few different things. no changes in the surroundings like a fluorecent light that wasn't there before or not normally on or anything? what about other electronics near your amp or guitar? I notice when I'm near my computer with the guitar the hum gets louder. This could also be a sign of a grounding issue of some sort. A certain amount of hum is normal, but when it gets excessive there is definately something causing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ne14t? Posted June 14, 2011 Author Share Posted June 14, 2011 Nah only had it for a month now, gunna have to pick up some tubes, I wanna change them out I hear the 12AX7s are JJs but the 6V6s were some Chinese brand tube. The guys over on the Marshall forum didnt have that much great stuff to say about them. At first I thought it was a pooched patch cable as my last one that broke inside the casing used to make an evil hum when you plugged it into an amp, but I tried 4 different cables and it didnt help. Damian could be right with 60Hz hum I have a bunch of them CFL lights in the house I think I just need to drink more so I dont hear it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonzoboy Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Like Damian I didn't hear anything out of the ordinary.I have 3 Marshall amps and have experienced the same thing that you have but that's not noise as such but just the way Marshalls react when the gain is maxxed.BTW a single coil guitar would be more prone to feeding back than a humbucker equipped one-which are you using?IT shouldn't be your tubes because I've found that the factory installed tubes from Marshall generally last a long time unless you max and abuse the amp regularly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ne14t? Posted June 14, 2011 Author Share Posted June 14, 2011 Gibson Explorer with stock buckers. Gain on the clean channel is not adjustable, but I do keep the gain cranked on the OD channel as the Amp is usually being played at 0.5 to 1.5 volume wise, it's never been played louder and that audio clip was the only time its been dimed. Could the amp just be "breaking" in to that tasty Marshall goodness? I know the speaker has been as its starting to sound a bit grittier but sadly not as much as a Vintage 30 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Sometimes, a tube CAN go from fine to having a problem. And, some tubes can cause a hum. You are exactly on the right track. It is far easier to have a spare set around, even if they are worn out, so you can check things out because usually, when a tube amp gets a problem it is a tube. One way you can check for a microphonic tube is to take a pencil and tap the tubes with the amp on. If it is really bad, that will send it off into feedback right there. But ALL tubes are microphonic to some degree. With the guitar plugged in an the guitar volume off, and the amp volume up, you should hear a thud through the amp when you tap the tube, or a slight dink like the sound of tapping a glass that quickly decays. If it has a ring that doesn't decay, it is too microphonic. You could also try switching the 12ax7 from position 1 with position 3, and see if that causes a drastic change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Farnsbarns Wunterslausche Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Sound exactly like a microphonic VALVE to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Gibson Explorer with stock buckers. Gain on the clean channel is not adjustable, but I do keep the gain cranked on the OD channel as the Amp is usually being played at 0.5 to 1.5 volume wise, it's never been played louder and that audio clip was the only time its been dimed. Might as well not even turn it on. Could the amp just be "breaking" in to that tasty Marshall goodness? I know the speaker has been as its starting to sound a bit grittier but sadly not as much as a Vintage 30 You are experiencing gains full up with some decent volume. It NEVER sounds good. Volume IS gain, too much of either sounds like a$$. Remember that noise is a very big part of what we hear that makes overdriven, "distorted" guitars sound good to us. Focusing the gain and volume with no diffusion, that is, standing 24 feet in front of 8 12", you get all the noise. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Sound exactly like a microphonic VALVE to me. Only English Marshalls have valves...... :unsure: ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Farnsbarns Wunterslausche Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 No, they're all valves, it's just that the English are the only people who know that :P (wondering if the smiley is enough to get away with this one) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 No, they're all valves, it's just that the English are the only people who know that :P (wondering if the smiley is enough to get away with this one) [thumbup] ................. [lol] ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Farnsbarns Wunterslausche Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 [thumbup] ................. [lol] ... This ^ is three heads on a spit being turned by two little yellow chaps in shades. You didn't know that either, did you. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ne14t? Posted June 14, 2011 Author Share Posted June 14, 2011 Might as well not even turn it on. You are experiencing gains full up with some decent volume. It NEVER sounds good. Volume IS gain, too much of either sounds like a$. Remember that noise is a very big part of what we hear that makes overdriven, "distorted" guitars sound good to us. Focusing the gain and volume with no diffusion, that is, standing 24 feet in front of 8 12", you get all the noise. rct If I dont turn it on I cant play, if I turn it up too loud the strata council said I am out, I kinda like having a home. I would like to get an attenuator so I could play it louder without pissing them off; however my lease is up come this February and I think I am going to move elsewhere, not really enjoying this strata BS and all these rules I have to obey in my own home... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 If I dont turn it on I cant play, I understand. I find it amusing most of the time that lots of young folks today put enourmous effort into preserving their cred by using only the finest t00b amps basically barely turned on. It's all a wash at those volumes, none of it matters. if I turn it up too loud the strata council said I am out, I kinda like having a home. I understand that as well, it sucks to be in that situation. I would like to get an attenuator so I could play it louder without pissing them off; In my experience, attentuators that are absolutely needed are generally an absolute fail. They are overwhelmingly dissappointing. however my lease is up come this February and I think I am going to move elsewhere, not really enjoying this strata BS and all these rules I have to obey in my own home... Well, good luck with it, I hope that you find a place you can open the thing up while gaining it down, get some air movin! rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy R Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Are you concerned about the hum or the feedback or both? Was your guitar turned up or down when you made the recordings? From your description on the audio it didn't sound like you were actually holding the guitar. If the guitar was turned up I would expect both the hum and the feedback. The feedback would be normal since the pick up is acting as an "open" microphone and you're adding volume and gain. The Hum would also be normal since your not touching the strings and making the ground. If the guitar was turned down and you are getting both hum and feedback then I would say a tube has gone bad or possibly a preamp wire could have moved. ( not sure if those have PCB mounted tube sockets) If you unplug the guitar ( and cable) does the Amp do the same thing when you turn it up? (Hiss is normal....) Is it just the hum you are speaking of? Does it go away or decrease significantly when you have your hands on the strings? If it does, then this hum is normal. If it doesn't then you have probably lost the Ground to your guitar's bridge ( often the solder joint will break between the wire going to the bridge and usually the back of one of the pots or somewhere in between) This would be my guess since you say it just happend "out of the blue" You might also have a bad cable or have plugged in another electrical device nearby that is causing interference.... No unshielded speakers or televisions/monitors near by are there? If you do happen to have a microphonic pre-amp tube and the amp has a phase inverter tube, just try swapping them... My 2 C's Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ne14t? Posted June 14, 2011 Author Share Posted June 14, 2011 Are you concerned about the hum or the feedback or both? Was your guitar turned up or down when you made the recordings? From your description on the audio it didn't sound like you were actually holding the guitar. If the guitar was turned up I would expect both the hum and the feedback. The feedback would be normal since the pick up is acting as an "open" microphone and you're adding volume and gain. The Hum would also be normal since your not touching the strings and making the ground. If the guitar was turned down and you are getting both hum and feedback then I would say a tube has gone bad or possibly a preamp wire could have moved. ( not sure if those have PCB mounted tube sockets) If you unplug the guitar ( and cable) does the Amp do the same thing when you turn it up? (Hiss is normal....) Is it just the hum you are speaking of? Does it go away or decrease significantly when you have your hands on the strings? If it does, then this hum is normal. If it doesn't then you have probably lost the Ground to your guitar's bridge ( often the solder joint will break between the wire going to the bridge and usually the back of one of the pots or somewhere in between) This would be my guess since you say it just happend "out of the blue" You might also have a bad cable or have plugged in another electrical device nearby that is causing interference.... No unshielded speakers or televisions/monitors near by are there? If you do happen to have a microphonic pre-amp tube and the amp has a phase inverter tube, just try swapping them... My 2 C's Andy It was mostly the hum I was concerned about I know the guitar feeding back is normal, we all hold our axe infont of the amp from time to time! I was not holding the guitar it was in its stand hanging from the neck. When I put my hand on the strings it does quiet the hum down but only a tiny amount, with nothing plugged into the amp at all it doesnt hum outrageously, there is a slight hum when you turn it up past 5 but that would be the amplifier hiss, plug in a patch cable and it starts regardless of the cable, I even tried a brand new spare, and this is with or without the guitar on the other end of the cable. The Volume and Tone were at about 4 on the guitar, I noticed that the tone effected the hum quiet a bit when turned up or down. Its actually funny you mentioned the ground to the bridge, if I remember correctly touching the bridge did decrease the hum drastically but I didnt think about that at the time, definitely going to pop open the control cavity when I get home and take a peak at that. Only thing its really close by is 6 CFL pot lights (no not the smokeable pot!) I have heard they are nasty for the 60Hz hum but as I mentioned before I figured that would be there from the start. I am going to open up the head tonight for the first time and see whats going on, on the inside tap the tubes maybe swap them around see if it does anything, thursday I am going to get a spare 12AX7 or two and a 6V6 as well just to be on the safe side seeing as how tubes dont have an expriy date. And Andy your 2 C's is welcome any time, you probably no more about this stuff sleeping then I do reading about it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff-7 Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Which brand of tubes did the amp come with? My Fender came with rebranded planet waves groove tubes and those things were garbage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Lol...sounds like operator error! For one, if you have a cable plugged in and nothing on the end, it WILL hum. Reading a little more, it sounds like you seldom have a chance to turn up, but when you did, you got more hum than you were used to and started to ask questions. Good stuff and good questions. One thing I think to evaluate is the level of hum relative to the VOLUME of the stuff you are playing. If you have your amp set to stun, and it is so loud you can barely hear your own voice, it is going to hum much louder than practice levels in a bedroom. So, basically, ALL amps hum but the only way to evaluate it being a problem for you or acceptable is to compare how loud the hum is to how loud a note or chord is. To help cut down on hum, it may be helpful to understand the cause, if you want to fill yer brain. It actually isn't created by the guitar and cable, it is PICKED UP by it. Every wire carrying a signal or current has a magnetic potential, and when they are not equal, the magnetitism is sucked from one to the other, and this is what picks it up. So, when you have a more balenced signal (like a humbucker with 2 equal coils) there is less signal being sucked from one wire to the other, and less hum. Also, WHERE the hum is being picked up from effects how much it is amplified. That is why, when we crank the gain on the pre or boost the signal from pedals, we get more because either 1) we are amplifying what hum there is coming from the guitar and cables 2)we are using effects that have a tendancy to pick up hum. I hope this increases your enjoyment of chasing hum and such, and helps to figure what to worry about and what not to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ne14t? Posted June 14, 2011 Author Share Posted June 14, 2011 Which brand of tubes did the amp come with? My Fender came with rebranded planet waves groove tubes and those things were garbage. Apparently JJ ECC83s and Shuguang chinese brand 6V6's Lol...sounds like operator error! For one, if you have a cable plugged in and nothing on the end, it WILL hum. Reading a little more, it sounds like you seldom have a chance to turn up, but when you did, you got more hum than you were used to and started to ask questions. Good stuff and good questions. One thing I think to evaluate is the level of hum relative to the VOLUME of the stuff you are playing. If you have your amp set to stun, and it is so loud you can barely hear your own voice, it is going to hum much louder than practice levels in a bedroom. So, basically, ALL amps hum but the only way to evaluate it being a problem for you or acceptable is to compare how loud the hum is to how loud a note or chord is. To help cut down on hum, it may be helpful to understand the cause, if you want to fill yer brain. It actually isn't created by the guitar and cable, it is PICKED UP by it. Every wire carrying a signal or current has a magnetic potential, and when they are not equal, the magnetitism is sucked from one to the other, and this is what picks it up. So, when you have a more balenced signal (like a humbucker with 2 equal coils) there is less signal being sucked from one wire to the other, and less hum. Also, WHERE the hum is being picked up from effects how much it is amplified. That is why, when we crank the gain on the pre or boost the signal from pedals, we get more because either 1) we are amplifying what hum there is coming from the guitar and cables 2)we are using effects that have a tendancy to pick up hum. I hope this increases your enjoyment of chasing hum and such, and helps to figure what to worry about and what not to. The hum comes through at the same volume as a note being played. The biggest problem is at bedroom levels it never used to have a hum and now it does and its LOUD and only gets louder the more I turn it up to the point the amp HAS to be shut off, I cant touch the gain on the clean channel its factory set and on the OD channel I can drop the gain to nothing but it just sounds like the clean channel, raise the gain and the amp goes psycho before I hit half volume. I am not worried about the light hum you would normally get that was present in my solid state amp aswell but this isnt a light hum, I can walk out my front door and still hear it. This isnt like having a neon sign on hum its like a 35 year old AC unit on its way out. I had all my pedals removed from the chain aswell, so it was guitar --> cable --> amp, and one of the cables was brand new never used. Needless to say I am going to fudge around with it tonight, if I get nowhere it goes back to L&M (its only 1 month old) and if they cant fix it, Marshall can have it back and I will get something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy R Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 Apparently JJ ECC83s and Shuguang chinese brand 6V6's The hum comes through at the same volume as a note being played. The biggest problem is at bedroom levels it never used to have a hum and now it does and its LOUD and only gets louder the more I turn it up to the point the amp HAS to be shut off, I cant touch the gain on the clean channel its factory set and on the OD channel I can drop the gain to nothing but it just sounds like the clean channel, raise the gain and the amp goes psycho before I hit half volume. I am not worried about the light hum you would normally get that was present in my solid state amp aswell but this isnt a light hum, I can walk out my front door and still hear it. This isnt like having a neon sign on hum its like a 35 year old AC unit on its way out. I had all my pedals removed from the chain aswell, so it was guitar --> cable --> amp, and one of the cables was brand new never used. Needless to say I am going to fudge around with it tonight, if I get nowhere it goes back to L&M (its only 1 month old) and if they cant fix it, Marshall can have it back and I will get something else. Hmmmmm Pun intended That doesn't sound good. ( yes a pun but required) One quick thing you can do to at least narrow it down to the preamp section is turn your guitar all the way down and plug it directly in to the FX return. This will essentially disconnect the preamp from the amplifier and your guitar will be plugged straight into the power amp. Make sure your guitar is turned down because when you do this the volume controls on the amp won't be doing anything. If you still get that buzzy hum then it is your guitar or something on the power amp side or your AC line. If it goes away then you know it is in the preamp section. Your phase Inverter tube should be the 3rd preamp tube usually nearest the power tubes. Swap it around with preamp tube 1 and 2. If it goes away your good to go. If not you got bigger problems... ( hope not) Let us know what you find out. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duane v Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 In my experience, attentuators that are absolutely needed are generally an absolute fail. They are overwhelmingly dissappointing. rct Can you expand on the above I've been using attenuators since 1982 and had / have great success using them.... My pals use them as well and nothing but great luck with them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 Can you expand on the above I've been using attenuators since 1982 and had / have great success using them.... My pals use them as well and nothing but great luck with them "Tube amp ROAR at bedroom volumes MAN!!!!!". Doesn't happen. Ever. They started out bad, if you remember, and while they got better at not melting yer transformers, it still just isn't the same. I would say the only persons not dissapointed with their attenuation are those that haven't had a couple hunnert watts on top of a halfa dozen or so speakers, because if you have done that more than twice, you know the difference. With all that said, I have a Princeton Recording that has an attenuator built in, and I enjoy twiddling with that thing all the time. It is no substitute for just diming the thing, and it is funny that such a small amp would come with an attenuator, but it IS fun to fool with and I get some pretty righteous sounds out of that little bugger. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy R Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 "Tube amp ROAR at bedroom volumes MAN!!!!!". Doesn't happen. Ever. They started out bad, if you remember, and while they got better at not melting yer transformers, it still just isn't the same. I would say the only persons not dissapointed with their attenuation are those that haven't had a couple hunnert watts on top of a halfa dozen or so speakers, because if you have done that more than twice, you know the difference. With all that said, I have a Princeton Recording that has an attenuator built in, and I enjoy twiddling with that thing all the time. It is no substitute for just diming the thing, and it is funny that such a small amp would come with an attenuator, but it IS fun to fool with and I get some pretty righteous sounds out of that little bugger. rct I have to disagree with you a bit here RCT. It really depends on the attenuator you use and what you consider to be "Bedroom" volume. Do I know the sound of a 100 watt Tube amp pushed to the max???? hmmm let's see I currently own 2 1973 Marshall 100 Watt Super Leads, A 1976 Marshall 100 Watt Super Lead, A Marshall 50 Watt Plexi, and A MetroAmp JTM 45 I built myself and an Egnator Renegade. I also have a 69 Marshall 4/12 Cab with green Back Celestions, and 2 1976 Marshall 4/12's with 25 Watt Black Back celestions. Among other 5 to 15 Watt Tube Amps.... So yeah I know what an Amp on "Stun" sounds like. I have also used attenuators in the past I didn't care for ( THD and some others ) but currently have a Weber Mass 150 Attenuator which has a built in Speaker driver so you get more dynamic reaction than you do with a straight Resistor based Attenuator. I get a good sound at " My bedroom Level" with it... I also use a Palmer PDI-03 for recording or going direct to PA and it sounds great. A lot of guys are using these in there live Rigs ( Joe Bonamassa, Eddie Van Halen etc... ) Attenuators can sound like garbage if you don't find one that really works with your amp well. There's my 2 Cents.... Respectfully, Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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