BoSoxBiker Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 Hi all, I'm new to the forum, although I have looked in from time to time. I have three Epiphones. A Black w/gold colored hardware '05 Custom, a Honeyburst '08 Standard Plus Top and a burgandy Riviera P-93. The P-93 is my most recent. I got it back in May from Musician's Friends. As was expected after reading the reviews, it is rather thick toned, even in the bridge position. In my case, I think it has to do with the pickup covers making the pickups stand too tall. Since purchasing this guitat, I have adjusted pole positions based on some reviews I've seen and had good, but limited results. I have also done a set-up after my new HVAC systems in my home were replaced. It plays really well right now. The action is just right, as in not too high nor not too low. I do believe that if I could lower the pickups covers that I could in turn lower the pickups and make things a bit clearer. So my questions is this. Does anyone know of any covers or techniques made for this purpose? Any web site resources where people have made these mods? Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tweed2 Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 Welcome. You'll find some knowlegable folks here that should be able to help, or at least give you an answer. Usually, when someone what's to change the pickup height, it's to raise them. Lowering them is obviously, difficult. What are the clearances, from the strings to the covers, right now? I found that when my stock Casino pickups were too far away from the strings, they weren't bright enough and moving them closer(pole adjustment and shims) helped a lot. My experience with P-90s is with metal covered Casino PUs, not the plastic covered P-93s, but I would imagine that they are basically the same. Tell me, are all 3 PU covers the same height/pole spacing, or is the neck PU different? And when you remove the bridge PU mounting screws, does the cover come loose from the pickup itself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoSoxBiker Posted September 17, 2011 Author Share Posted September 17, 2011 Hi, and thanks for the response. I've got three other guitars with p-90's installed and they all sound nice and bright. This has the loudness or power, but voiced very low or almost muddy. The other problem is that one has to play this guitar with a bit of a delicate touch. I'm no Heavy Metal guy or anything, but this is limiting even for me. Here are the measurements. neck - string pressed at last fret - highest spot on pickup: < 1/64ths mid - string pressed at last fret - highest spot on pickup: 5/64ths bridge - string pressed at last fret - highest spot on pickup: < 1/64ths neck - string not pressed - highest spot on pickup: 4/64ths mid - string not pressed - highest spot on pickup: 7/64ths bridge - string not pressed - highest spot on pickup: 1/64ths neck - string pressed at last fret - highest spot on pickup: < 1/64ths mid - string pressed at last fret - highest spot on pickup: 5/64ths bridge - string pressed at last fret - highest spot on pickup: < 1/64ths neck - string not pressed - highest spot on pickup: 4/64ths mid - string not pressed - highest spot on pickup: 7/64ths bridge - string not pressed - highest spot on pickup: 1/64ths neck - string pressed at last fret - middle of pickup: 1/64ths mid - string pressed at last fret - middle of pickup: 6/64ths bridge - string pressed at last fret - middle of pickup: 1/64ths neck - string not pressed - middle of pickup: 4/64ths mid - string not pressed - middle of pickup: 8/64ths bridge - string not pressed - middle of pickup: 2/64ths Please pardon the dust. I didn't notice until I took the shots how badly I need to clean this. Doh! pressed not pressed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tweed2 Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 Hi, and thanks for the response. I've got three other guitars with p-90's installed and they all sound nice and bright. This has the loudness or power, but voiced very low or almost muddy. The other problem is that one has to play this guitar with a bit of a delicate touch. I'm no Heavy Metal guy or anything, but this is limiting even for me. Here are the measurements. neck - string pressed at last fret - highest spot on pickup: < 1/64ths mid - string pressed at last fret - highest spot on pickup: 5/64ths bridge - string pressed at last fret - highest spot on pickup: < 1/64ths neck - string not pressed - highest spot on pickup: 4/64ths mid - string not pressed - highest spot on pickup: 7/64ths bridge - string not pressed - highest spot on pickup: 1/64ths neck - string pressed at last fret - highest spot on pickup: < 1/64ths mid - string pressed at last fret - highest spot on pickup: 5/64ths bridge - string pressed at last fret - highest spot on pickup: < 1/64ths neck - string not pressed - highest spot on pickup: 4/64ths mid - string not pressed - highest spot on pickup: 7/64ths bridge - string not pressed - highest spot on pickup: 1/64ths neck - string pressed at last fret - middle of pickup: 1/64ths mid - string pressed at last fret - middle of pickup: 6/64ths bridge - string pressed at last fret - middle of pickup: 1/64ths neck - string not pressed - middle of pickup: 4/64ths mid - string not pressed - middle of pickup: 8/64ths bridge - string not pressed - middle of pickup: 2/64ths Please pardon the dust. I didn't notice until I took the shots how badly I need to clean this. Doh! pressed not pressed Holy Moly, It appears from the last picture that there is a shim under the bridge pickup and it's a big one. It's set way too high as is the neck pickup (but not as much) but the middle one looks pretty good. That shim needs to come out. I would go back to MF and show them what you're showing us. They need to have a tech pull that bridge shim out and install something more appropriate. There's no way that guitar can be set up correctly with those PU heights as a starting point. You could raise the brige then chase your action by playing with the neck, but if you like it as it is now, pull those two shims. It wouldn't be hard to fix yourself. Loosen the strings (a lot), pull the mounting screws, slide the shim out and turn it 90 degrees and roll it up. Run the PU through the shim and it's off. You can buy replacement shims of various thickness from Jason Lollar or Vintage Vibe (others sell shims, but they are not the same shape as the PU cover and look like crap (see previous posts on this)). Or if you're handy and have access to a belt sander, take some of that "plank" down. You should end up with somewhere between a strong 1/8" to 3/16" (bridge) to the cover and then adjust the poles from there. Someone else may have some other advise, but that's my take on it. Seeing that, I'm not surprised it doesn't sound good. Clean that dust off, take a few full frontal pictures (the guitar, not you) and post them would ya? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaSTuS Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 That neck pickup also seems to be turned around the wrong way, the slant looks backwards, the thickness should tend to increase towards the bridge end, not the neck end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete B Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 That bridge pickup looks way too close and as said above the neck looks arse about face Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supersonic Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 Of course there is a shim under the bridge pup, it's not like you can raise it like a humbucker. And Rob is right, the neck pickup looks like it is turned around the wrong way. WTF is up with that? I have one and it's a fantastic guitar. It's not going to sound like a Casino. It has it's own sound. You've got 3 PUP's with a volume control for each, plus whatever controls you have on your amp. Get creative and use them. That thing is a monster once you find the right amp settings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tweed2 Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 Of course there is a shim under the bridge pup, it's not like you can raise it like a humbucker. And Rob is right, the neck pickup looks like it is turned around the wrong way. WTF is up with that? I have one and it's a fantastic guitar. It's not going to sound like a Casino. It has it's own sound. You've got 3 PUP's with a volume control for each, plus whatever controls you have on your amp. Get creative and use them. That thing is a monster once you find the right amp settings. There should be some sort of shim at the neck PU, but that thing is way too thick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoSoxBiker Posted September 18, 2011 Author Share Posted September 18, 2011 Thanks folks. I'll turn around the pickup cover tonight and see if that allows me to lower the pickup under it at all. Interesting as well, I never spotted that there was a shim under the neck pickup cover until I saw it in the picture. I'll figure out a way to shave some thickness off that bridge shim as well. Thanks again. I'll update this thread as I progress. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james_edward Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 As mentioned the neck pup is backwards and needs to be rotated 180 degrees, level with the fingerboard is too high. I don't know how much relief is in the neck but it figures into the equation, in that if the nut can be lowered the bridge can be raised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoSoxBiker Posted September 18, 2011 Author Share Posted September 18, 2011 I turned the neck cover around. Forget what I said about there being a shim. My eyes play tricks..... re neck relief: It's set to about .008. I did raise the strings a bit, about 1/64th a side higher. Just to buy me some space. 5/64ths on the high E and 6/64ths on the low e. I don't like them too low anyhow, so it's fine. Right now my current thought is to try and find a stock shim or two for the bridge so that I have something to put back in place after experimenting with height. It's pretty hard to un-sand things. :) Like tweed2 mentioned earlier, normally people like them high to get more out of them. I know with other pickups on other guitars that too high a pickup can take some clarity out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaSTuS Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 I turned the neck cover around. Forget what I said about there being a shim. My eyes play tricks..... re neck relief: It's set to about .008. I did raise the strings a bit, about 1/64th a side higher. Just to buy me some space. 5/64ths on the high E and 6/64ths on the low e. I don't like them too low anyhow, so it's fine. Right now my current thought is to try and find a stock shim or two for the bridge so that I have something to put back in place after experimenting with height. It's pretty hard to un-sand things. :) Like tweed2 mentioned earlier, normally people like them high to get more out of them. I know with other pickups on other guitars that too high a pickup can take some clarity out. More importantly, if it's too high, the magnetic field interferes with the strings resonating abilities and robs usable tone and sustain substantially. Did turning the neck pup around fix it's height issues at least ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoSoxBiker Posted September 18, 2011 Author Share Posted September 18, 2011 More importantly, if it's too high, the magnetic field interferes with the strings resonating abilities and robs tone and sustain substantially. Did turning the neck pup around fix it's height issues at least ??? The pickup was in the proper position. It was just the cover that was backwards. I double checked with the mid pickup's writing and wire placement to verify. After moving the pickup cover around, I raised the strings a bit. Mostly as a temporary measure. It sounds a bit better, and I don't need as delicate a touch as I used to. I still need to figure out how to lower the neck pickup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaSTuS Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 It's beyond me how a new guitar could be so poorly configured, you mention you got it from MF, was it sold as new, or was it a return or trade ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoSoxBiker Posted September 18, 2011 Author Share Posted September 18, 2011 It's beyond me how a new guitar could be so poorly configured, you mention you got it from MF, was it sold as new, or was it a return or trade ??? Nopw, it was sold as new. I would probably have just figured that this was the way these guitars were madde if not for Guitar Centers starting to stock them. I was over there last weekend and picked up one of the other colors and it was different. The pickup covers were much lower. I was thinking over-night that the besy course of action would be to email customer service at this point. I hate to, because otherwise I have a great player. It's even set up well after my string height raising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaSTuS Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 I know several people with these guitars and none of them exhibited the problems your's seems to have, in fact, it's very close to top of the list for my next Epi purchase. I was extremely surprised to see the condition of yours and that's why I asked if it was a new one or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoSoxBiker Posted September 18, 2011 Author Share Posted September 18, 2011 I know several people with these guitars and none of them exhibited the problems your's seems to have, in fact, it's very close to top of the list for my next Epi purchase. I was extremely surprised to see the condition of yours and that's why I asked if it was a new one or not. I'm trying to imagine how it would (or could) be fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaSTuS Posted September 18, 2011 Share Posted September 18, 2011 I'm trying to imagine how it would (or could) be fixed. To be honest I don't think you should bother, I'd return it and get one that's configured and setup correctly from the get go. Yours is not how they should come, it's the only one I've seen so strangely configured out of the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoSoxBiker Posted September 18, 2011 Author Share Posted September 18, 2011 I'll see what they say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoSoxBiker Posted September 21, 2011 Author Share Posted September 21, 2011 Update: Long story short. I changed strings today and cleaned up in prep for bringing it to Epiphone/Gibson warranty center next week. Must have had a dead or very dull set of strings. The before and after is incredible. I've never heard this much of a difference. The strings were old, but not that old. May 5th according to my maint spreadsheet. This thing sings now, though. I love it. I'll still bring it in to the place to have the tech look at it. After all, the pickups are still high. Not as much urgency in the matter now, so I can wait until I'm on the other side of town already. It's over an hour round trip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaSTuS Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Update: Long story short. I changed strings today and cleaned up in prep for bringing it to Epiphone/Gibson warranty center next week. Must have had a dead or very dull set of strings. The before and after is incredible. I've never heard this much of a difference. The strings were old, but not that old. May 5th according to my maint spreadsheet. This thing sings now, though. I love it. I'll still bring it in to the place to have the tech look at it. After all, the pickups are still high. Not as much urgency in the matter now, so I can wait until I'm on the other side of town already. It's over an hour round trip. Fantastic news PB, glad to see things are on the improve, now if they can sort out the pickup issue all should be good, let's hope that'll happen when you take ti in next week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tweed2 Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 I'm curious, can anybody tell me what configuration of PUs Epiphone uses on their 3 PU guitars? Bridge is, I would imagine, the 1 31/32" pole spacing and from what the pictures here show, the tall cover. But it's the neck and especially the middle PUs I'm asking about. Does Epiphone use the short, 1 7/8" pole spaced PU at the neck? and, what about the middle? It appears to have the taller cover, the neck, the short, which usually indicates the narrower pole spacing. Anybody know? brianh (you've got that beauty with 3PUs)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supersonic Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 I'm curious, can anybody tell me what configuration of PUs Epiphone uses on their 3 PU guitars? Bridge is, I would imagine, the 1 31/32" pole spacing and from what the pictures here show, the tall cover. But it's the neck and especially the middle PUs I'm asking about. Does Epiphone use the short, 1 7/8" pole spaced PU at the neck? and, what about the middle? It appears to have the taller cover, the neck, the short, which usually indicates the narrower pole spacing. Anybody know? brianh (you've got that beauty with 3PUs)? I have one, but I have no idea. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Interesting thread.....I also own one of these.....Nice guitar.....For recording, it makes a great guitar (for me) to use as a second or third guitar tracked in conjuntion with a Gibby LP and / or Tele......And, on it's own......Mine came with lower PU height.....And yes, that PU cover was backwards.......MF, as far as I know, ships guitars out without checking them out....I understand that Sweetwater does check guitars out before sending them out...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoSoxBiker Posted September 21, 2011 Author Share Posted September 21, 2011 Interesting thread.....I also own one of these.....Nice guitar.....For recording, it makes a great guitar (for me) to use as a second or third guitar tracked in conjuntion with a Gibby LP and / or Tele......And, on it's own......Mine came with lower PU height.....And yes, that PU cover was backwards.......MF, as far as I know, ships guitars out without checking them out....I understand that Sweetwater does check guitars out before sending them out...... Isn't the P93 a MF/GC exclusive LE model? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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