charlie brown Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Sorry, for all the questions, etc. But, after an experience I had, last evening, at one of our local "Jams," I'm perplexed! I tested my amp, and stomp boxes, as I always do, before ANY kind of public performance, "Jam" or Gig! Everything was fine, as usual. They all performed, as expected, here at home. (Yes, I do test them all, at "performance levels" on volume...I live in a house, and my neighbors are very understanding...believe me, I've asked.) When I arrived, at the "Jam" (I'm a member of the permanent "backing band"), Nothing worked, as it should have. Especially, the stomp boxes. There are six, daisy chained, together. As I said, before, all worked properly at the house, were plenty loud, when set to be so, yet... when I got to the venue, the amp seemed fine, but the pedals, actaully lost volume, at the same settings, they were tested at. ??? Any ideas? I'm "baffled," even more than I am, "normally." LOL The connections were fine...if you have a bad one, NONE of them work. So...??? CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JellyWheat Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Here... read this, charlie brown... http://www.recordingeq.com/EQ/req1001/mmi.htm J/W B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaxson50 Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Could it be the monitors? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JellyWheat Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Were you, just out of interest, playing a ...RED or YELLOW guitar? [Just wondering...] J/W :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted November 12, 2011 Author Share Posted November 12, 2011 Were you, just out of interest, playing a ...RED or YELLOW guitar? [Just wondering...] J/W :P YES, I was playing my TV Yellow, Les Paul (Double Cut) Special, as a matter of fact! CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JellyWheat Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 YES, I was play my TV Yellow, Les Paul (Double Cut) Special, as a matter of fact! CB I KNEW IT! You , in engineering-speak, "Mellow-Yellowed Out"! HAH! J/W :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted November 12, 2011 Author Share Posted November 12, 2011 I KNEW IT! You , in engineering-speak, "MellowYellowed Out"! HAH! J/W :lol: So, it seems! Seriously, that article was enlightening...I'm passing it on, to my fellow band mates, (Not that they'll probably read it, or "Care?"...LOL) But, at least it's worth a try. CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JellyWheat Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 CB, I would bet money on my diagnostication. We used to run into the same problem all the time back in the old days when almost all pro Fender amps were open-backed and blues joints were situated in low-ceilinged basements that reflected sound real funny. I have sat in the back row of a theatre at a Blue Rodeo concert where the phase cancellation was so bad, you couldn't make out the frequency of any of the notes being played... it was just one big "thump", in time with the kick drum, which sounded fine! J/W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted November 12, 2011 Author Share Posted November 12, 2011 Well, THAT pretty much sums up what I felt like the "tone" was, last evening. A big wall of "noise," that should have been a lot more musical, than it was. CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted November 12, 2011 Author Share Posted November 12, 2011 Could it be the monitors? The Monitors, were fine...it was my stomp boxes, that seemed to "go south" volume wise, especially. CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirstMeasure Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 It's hard to tell without having your stuff right here, but my first instinct says it's the daisy chained power supply (I'm assuming it's a One Spot or something like that). If the place you playing has a lot of power running through the same circuit the weakest links in the chain could suffer, and that would be the one spot type pedal power. You may have to get a central power supply like a DC Brick or Gator Bus 8. I use the Gator and haven't had a power sag issue since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted November 12, 2011 Author Share Posted November 12, 2011 It's hard to tell without having your stuff right here, but my first instinct says it's the daisy chained power supply (I'm assuming it's a One Spot or something like that). If the place you playing has a lot of power running through the same circuit the weakest links in the chain could suffer, and that would be the one spot type pedal power. You may have to get a central power supply like a DC Brick or Gator Bus 8. I use the Gator and haven't had a power sag issue since. Could be...It's the older "pedal" Boss power-supply, that fits with the case, the other boxes are in. In all honesty, I'm "relearning" at lot of this stuff, after not playing for 30 years, and being out of the loop, tech wise, too...for so long. So, this is good...to get these ideas, and/or "possibilities." FYI, the other guys, were using Digitech RP-500 "processors" for their "effects." They didn't seem to have any trouble, like I was experiencing. So...??? CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JellyWheat Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 charlie brown: There may be something to this pedal power supply possibility suggested by FirstMeasure. It has been 20 years since I have used a chained effects box, so I forget about these other potential problems. [Nowadays my only effect is a Maxon AD9Pro.] So I am certainly not going to insist that the most likely culprit is phase cancellation. But I would still put it way up there as a possible cause. I am glad to see that you are getting some high-quality input in your thread! J/W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirstMeasure Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 I'd definitely say Phasing is the most likely culprit, I just like to touch on any possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SG Jones Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 I wouldn't be too discouraged. We all have nights that we just can't dial it in quite right. Sometimes it is the room or the stage. Sometimes it is the other players (alcohol,volume,tone,attitude,etc.). Sometimes we just have off nights because we are in the wrong frame of mind. Sometimes we have no idea what it is. Usually things change a lot as the night goes along and the volume goes up. You start off great and then it goes south or vice versa. How often do you finish a gig with the same settings that you started with? Sometimes there a certain songs that always have you pulling your hair out. Certain drummers that I play with always create a battle for "acoustic real estate" on stage. Some guitar players (myself included) can be guilty of the same. When the volume war ensues for the right to certain frequency ranges sometimes it is best just to raise the white flag an surrender. I won't even get into the stress that singers can put you under. I like to use gear that I am very familiar with when I gig. I have been using basically the same rig live for more than ten years now. That way I have a ton of experience tweaking it in different situations. Having said that there are still nights that I never get it right. It sucks, but it happens. Just keep a smile on your face and make the best of it. Find the best place to stand that sounds OK and suck it up. Not much else that you can do after you have pulled all of your rabbits out of your hat. How often do you really get that "perfect" live sound anyway? Odds are that even if you are in heaven on stage the sound man will "fix" it for you in the mix. The big acts go through the same thing. Why do you think they look so pissed off at some shows? Case in point. Recently, a couple of friends spoke with Jason Rebello(Jeff Beck) after the second show of their Canadian tour. He complained that the stage sound was so bad in the first show that it was a fight all night. The second show in a different venue was great for them. You would never know the difference by watching them. They are true professionals. I find Alex Lifeson to be a guy that can wear his emotions on his sleeve during a show. Not to pick on Alex, but I attended one show at which he changed guitars after each of the first four or five songs and then tossed a Les Paul off the side of the stage in disgust. I couldn't figure out what the problem was, but he was obviously having one. If the gear that you use consistently lets you down then change it. I wouldn't panic after one bad night though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JellyWheat Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 That's great advice and sound observation, even if it does come from a bluenoser! But we would say the same thing over here on spud isle, too! ;) [... this is all secret code talk so we keep our locations secret from the rest of the world, BTW!] <_< J/W B) ...shhhhh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SG Jones Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 That's great advice and sound observation, even if it does come from a bluenoser! But we would say the same thing over here on spud isle, too! ;) [... this is all secret code talk so we keep our locations secret from the rest of the world, BTW!] J/W B) ...shhhhh! I won't talk, even if they torture me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JellyWheat Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 :unsure: ... x/y Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted November 13, 2011 Author Share Posted November 13, 2011 Hey, I "ain't givin' up," by a LONG shot. Just trying to figure out, what "may" have happened, and IF their is anything I can do, to keep it from happening, again. "Gremlin's" I'm VERY familiar with. I think we all are, at one time or another. Thanks, for all the info, and ideas...it's alway inforative, and Fun/interesting too. CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
This_Dying_Soul Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 That's great advice and sound observation, even if it does come from a bluenoser! But we would say the same thing over here on spud isle, too! ;) [... this is all secret code talk so we keep our locations secret from the rest of the world, BTW!] <_< J/W B) ...shhhhh! I won't talk, even if they torture me. I've figured out the locations... but then that's just because I'm a neighbor from The Hub. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JellyWheat Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 I've figured out the locations... but then that's just because I'm a neighbor from The Hub. You, too, are sworn to secrecy! Or we will confiscate your dulse! [i bought my beautiful Studio with P-90s in the Hub City almost two years ago to the day!] Regards, J/W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thundergod Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 What kind of power supply were you using for the pedals? I have had pedals turn from great ad one to complete useless garbage when using an adapter in a place with electricity problems (that you can't know about unless the owner tells you about it). Did you try using batteries? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krock Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Have you checked that your daisy chain is working correctly. I know that pedals dont respond properly when you put different currents through them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted November 13, 2011 Author Share Posted November 13, 2011 What kind of power supply were you using for the pedals? I have had pedals turn from great ad one to complete useless garbage when using an adapter in a place with electricity problems (that you can't know about unless the owner tells you about it). Did you try using batteries? No, I didn't do that...I haven't used batteries, for years. The power supply was the older "pedal" version power supply, that came with the older Boss plastic, multi-pedal case. Never had any problems, with it, before. But, that's not to say that couldn't be what happened. ??? CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thundergod Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 If you are playing in the same place again bring batteries with you, that way you can try them and see if the problem is with the electrical installation of the place. Happened to me at a place we played in: none of the pedals worked, and the other guy's line 6 didn't even turn on :( Turns put they had put lights and a projection screen in there after our sound test (when everything worked great) and it was all on the same grid with the AC system and everything else. We had to plug our guitars into the PA and change the set to songs that required only clean sounds. :S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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