NGD Epiphone ES-355

[mgrasso]

On Black Friday I pulled the trigger on a white ES-355 and case from GC over the phone.

The first one was delivered that Wednesday.

 

Feel, setup, playability and tone is fantastic on these.

The poly finish is not that heavy. Does not look like it was dipped in plastic.

The pickups have a huge range from real bluesy to great twang.

Stays in tune when using the Bigsby.

Played through my Fender Blues Junior and no muddiness at all.

Thicker neck like the dot.

I really like the way this guitar feels.

Will go into the pick guard a little further down.

 

Now for the Bad on this one.

Flaws around the F-holes.

The poly finish being thin looked like it had warn away in a number of places.

I could see the wood around the edges.

On the bass side where the neck attaches to the body, right under the fretboard on the side was buckling, very wavy for about 5/8 of an inch.

 

Thought about it and returned it that Friday.

New one came this Wednesday and picked it up Friday (No call that it was in, but I did find an e-mail from GC that it had been delivered. No Foul)

Got to go over it today and photograph it.

Plays, sounds and feels as good as the first one.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Love the white and am looking at having a pickguard attached.

 

Now the problems with this one and looking for advice on whether or not to return this one also.

I am thinking I will take it back tomorrow.

 

One of the problems.

On the first pickguard I noticed that the top of the guard where it had a hole drilled for the mounting screw was fairly small.

Also the plastic was misshaped and would need to be shaved.

Problem is shaving it might cut real close to where the recessed hole is.

The new one has the same problem only this guard is warped. The top and bottom curves up from the middle.

The guard is very dark for tortoise. I did purchase an Allparts tortoise shell 355 that is multi layered instead of bound.

[mgrasso]

Below are photos of the both guards.

 

 

 

Notice how narrow the top area is by the recessed drill hole.

 

 

 

Close up for comparison of the tops

 

 

 

 

Epiphone Guard in position

 

 

 

 

Allparts guard in position

 

 

 

 

I really like the lighter look of the Allparts over the Epi. But I do like the bound edges on the Epi.

 

To save space I will go into the bad finish next.

[mgrasso]

Here are the blemishes.

This is why I think I will return this one also.

 

Whit finish where the neck attaches to the body.

 

 

 

 

Also on the high e side from the cutaway to the pickup ring is an indentation that runs the length.

It did not photograph but it is there and fairly prominent when the light hits it.

Might be a problem down the road.

 

 

 

Now on to the F-holes.

 

Warn edge.

 

 

Rough edges

 

 

 

 

Sloppy paint drips (Although better than the first one. I had no idea that white was that hard to finish an archtop in)

 

 

 

Now my dilemma.

This is a great guitar. It plays, sounds and feels great.

But I love the white. (I have a Korean Riviera with minis in cherry so I really do not need another one, and black is just to hard to keep clean)

The only problems are with the finish.

I got this on Black Friday and floated it for 15 months with the case.

Do I switch to the cherry and wait until the production gets up to speed?

Or go with another (third) white one.

I have no idea how long they will let me return these until I am satisfied.

 

Thought I would share with everyone and hear opinions from the people I trust the most.

Thanks for listening.

 

Mark

[RaSTuS]

Congrats on the 355 guitar, they do look awesome in white, sorry to hear of the qc problems though, I hope you're able to get one that has none of the issues that have been evident so far.

 

That top section where the hole is near the edge does seem excessively narrow, it would be very weak one imagines.

 

I'll never buy a hollow/semi-hollow any more unless it has bound f-holes, historical accuracy or not, they look much better bound IMHO.

 

Again, hoping you can get one that has all the elements correct, best of luck with it.

[RaSTuS]

My above post was made before (or while) your third post was up, I'd return that in a heartbeat, that is terrible for a new guitar to have finishing issues like that. As for going for a cherry one, what's to say they wouldn't have the same issues as the white.

[mgrasso]

My above post was made before (or while) your third post was up, I'd return that in a heartbeat, that is terrible for a new guitar to have finishing issues like that. As for going for a cherry one, what's to say they wouldn't have the same issues as the white.

 

Thanks RaSTus.

 

My initial thoughts also.

I did see a cherry one from a fellow member and it looked like, and I imagine that a cherry stain would not be as noticeable as the opaque white.

I am going to PM that owner tomorrow and see how his is finished.

 

M

[charlie brown]

First off, I DO understand wanting a "perfect" guitar, regardless of price point.

I'm (basically) the same way. However, IF I love a guitar, that the finish problems

are indeed fixable, at the dealer, which those all look to be, I might just have

them do that, instead of returning it, and taking another chance (or multiple chances)

that the next one, would have similar, or...God forbid, even more serious issues.

The body binding, at the neck seems (by the photos) to be just paint, that wasn't

scraped away, enough. The "F" hole paint problems, could be easily fixed, as well.

So..IF you indeed Love everything else about it, have a good luthier, or your dealer

clean it up, and you'll be good to go! IF, on the other hand, it's far more serious,

than that...by all means, send it back. It's your money...and "time!" Good luck,

whatever you do!

 

CB

[damian]

I agree with RaSTuS.........I would return it.......I also would speak with the GC manager....Perhaps he will personally inspect the replacement guitar....

 

I would also continue to go for the white version............Very beautiful guitar.........There is speculation that GC is sometimes sent "lessor" guitars

 

than are sent for sale elsewhere.....I do not know this for a fact, but, I see more lemons at GC than anywhere else........

[RaSTuS]

First off, I DO understand wanting a "perfect" guitar, regardless of price point.

I'm (basically) the same way. However, IF I love a guitar, that the finish problems

are indeed fixable, at the dealer, which those all look to be, I might just have

them do that, instead of returning it, and taking another chance (or multiple chances)

that the next one, would have similar, or...God forbid, even more serious issues.

The body binding, at the neck seems (by the photos) to be just paint, that wasn't

scraped away, enough. The "F" hole paint problems, could be easily fixed, as well.

So..IF you indeed Love everything else about it, have a good luthier, or your dealer

clean it up, and you'll be good to go! IF, on the other hand, it's far more serious,

than that...by all means, send it back. It's your money...and "time!" Good luck,

whatever you do!

 

CB

While I agree much of it can be fixed easily, those blemishes on the top of the f-holes, on the actual body face, can't be resolved easily, additionally the crease in the top of the body near the treble side of the neck isn't a finish issue, it's more of a structural issue and would not be easy to fix either.

[BillyGibson]

It did go through the final inspection and set up at the Epiphone USA Facilities,

so it must have been good enough for them to send on to your authorized Epiphone Dealer.

(From the Epi blog - 11/22/11)

 

I believe what this communicates is at this price point, you should not expect it to

be any different than what you received. From the two pictures on the blog, they are

doing the set up. And your review confims this. Kudo's to the employees in the pictures

who do these. They took the time and did it right.

 

As for the blemishes, in my opinion, I don't believe they are instructed to correct those.

It's not a price point issue either of "you should expect those, because it's a $500 guitar,

and you can have someone else do it for you". Head over to the Gibson Forum and read the

reviews of those who bought Gibson's and expected to not see similiar blemishes. We've (the

buyers) have learned to accept these and each of us makes our own decisions on wheter to keep

the guitar and: correct the blems ourselves, have someone else do it for us, or live with them.

Or simply return it and try another one.

 

If you're not happy with it or the shape of the pickguard, I'd send it back. Or at lease have

Epi send you a new pickguard. The All Parts one does look nice, but you should have an original

in good shape too.

 

Great looking guitar. White and gold. Outstanding.

[RaSTuS]

I believe what this communicates is at this price point, you should not expect it to

be any different than what you received. From the two pictures on the blog, they are

doing the set up. And your review confims this. Kudo's to the employees in the pictures

who do these. They took the time and did it right.

That's BS, if it's new, it should have no issues whatsoever, if you accept it then it just encourages them to become sloppier, a new product should be flawless unless it's been sold as a blem.

[mgrasso]

CB and Billy,

I understand the a $700 guitar will not be pristine as a $4k guitar.

When returning the first, they brought out a Gibson 339 with the same kind of rough finish to the f-holes.

(RaSTuS, to your one comment, bound f-holes are desired, but at this price point, I realize I wont find one)

 

The main reason for the first send back was the buckling under the fretboard where it attached to the body.

The worn edges by the f-holes was something that I could live with.

 

On the current one though, there are more defects.

As RaSTuS pointed out and one of my main concerns is the crease in the top from the cutaway to the pickup ring.

Since I plan on having the pickguard attached in that area, i think the drilling might cause a problem down the road.

Maybe not.

 

The sloppy paint where the neck connects on both sides is not acceptable either.

I forgot to mention two dings in the binding on the right cutaway.

That and the warped pickguard did make the decision easier.

I will be returning it later today.

 

I am a brand loyalist with Epiphone.

I should have held back the Gas and waited until the second generation of these were released.

Epiphone seems to get better as they produce more.

But as it is, I am committed to this model and will try one more time.

After all, my rejects will be someones discounted blems.

 

The 355 does play very well and sound very good.

 

Any comments on which pickguard I should install?

Mark

[RaSTuS]

(RaSTuS, to your one comment, bound f-holes are desired, but at this price point, I realize I wont find one)

I've got several for much less than $700 brand new.

[RaSTuS]

 

 

These are the ones that looked bad on the f-holes to me.

[BillyGibson]

That's BS, if it's new, it should have no issues whatsoever, if you accept it then it just encourages them to become sloppier, a new product should be flawless unless it's been sold as a blem.

 

I was being my usual sarcastic self. My point was, they don't

give a _ _ _ _ (fill in the blank), about cosmetic issues. Even

at the $2K to $4K price point on the Gibson forum. Go read the

Custom Shop Hollow Body disappointment coments. Where in many

cases, it was their first experience with a Gibson and believe it

or not they expected it to be perfect. (sarcasm)

 

Granted, some folks have had "perfect" guitars. The fact is,

Epi/Gibson does "inspections" not "quality control". They have

a certain standard and that's good enough for them.

 

Mgrasso - if you want bound f-holes, the Sheraton II has them. Or

Ibanaz has them too on most of their semi-hollows at $400 and up. I

was getting ready to buy one, when my found my used Sheraton (thanks

to the help of another member)

[RaSTuS]

Thing is Bill I've got half a dozen Gibsons, and about 60 others besides, in all price ranges, even a budget guitar that only cost me $200 or $300 new would go back if it looked like that, unless I bought it as a blem item in the first place. That is one POS in the quality department. Thing is if people accept that sort of crap, then that's the crap they'll make, they'll only improve their quality if people call them out on such shoddy workmanship.

[Supersonic]

bound f-holes are desired, but at this price point, I realize I wont find one)

 

Sheratons have them and they're a hundred dollars cheaper.

[charlie brown]

You know, the more I look at those photos, the more it looks like a (possibly)

"Returned," guitar or even "shop worn," as most of that, save the paint on the

binding, seems like it was inflicted, later....especially dents in the binding,

and the "damaged" (paint/scapes) looking areas at the "f" holes. Could be just

sloppy QC, but those "look" like shop ware, or damaged by a previous owner, to me.

So, yeah...Send It Back!!

 

CB

[charlie brown]

Midiman (here), on this forum, works for Guitar Center, in Vegas. Order

one, through him...he'll inspect it, for you, prior to shipping! He's a

good guy!

 

OR, just go to/order from Sweetwater!

 

CB

[bobouz]

If you live close to the GC you're dealing with, personally I'd stick with them because you don't have to deal with shipping & returns if you're not happy with the guitar. Having a guitar legitimately inspected by someone else can certainly be a big help, but there's nothing better than an in-hand inspection for playability & tone. Do a refund now, and simply inspect each one that comes in till you find a good one. If Epi is batting .000 with the first two, then chances are there are more clunkers coming down the road. If the local GC won't readily work with you, then move on. But for as long as possible, you might as well keep the ball in your court & the money in your pocket until the right one presents itself.

 

Edit: As CB mentioned, maybe Midiman can inspect one for you, and then ship it to your local GC with the standard 30 day in-store return still intact. Go online & get the Las Vegas store's number to talk to him about it, or PM him first.

 

Best of luck with your quest!

[mgrasso]

Well, I returned it to the GC that I have been dealing with.

I have no problem with the returns. (Although it took over an hour at the store to do the paperwork)

RaSTus, I agree with you, if I accept this I do them and me no favor.

 

CB, the reason for not going with another online company or through Jim is that I got the Black Friday special and the November 15 months same as cash special. (one way to satisfy my wallet and wife)

They wanted to just return it and reorder, but I would have lost the November financing.

That took them a while to figure out how to setup the returns.

 

This will be the last white one I get. If this one is not better, I will switch to the Cherry.

I have a feeling that this is because they have not had to finish an archtop in white.

I have seen the LP Customs and Studios finished in white that seem to be finished well.

 

As for the bound f-holes, it really does not matter to me.

As Bill had stated, I know that the Sheraton has them, but they no longer make white.

(I do follow them when they turn up on ebay though)

 

I am curious as to how the Royal series archtops faired in their finishes since they are white.

I think that as time goes on, they will get better.

I think this is just because this is a new model, and the first run, some of them will not be the best.

 

I will wait to see the next one, if bad, go with Cherry and then wait until next year and try the ES-345 in white.

I am patient and have others to play while waiting.

I do have to say that these do turn heads in the store while returning them.

 

I do have a question for Epiphone that came up yesterday.

If I have my luthier drill the holes for the pickguard, will this void the warranty?

They seemed to think it would.

I will contact them today via customer service.

[charlie brown]

I Seriously Doubt, drilling holes, for the pickguard, that Epiphone included,

but didn't mount, would "void the warranty!" If it does, that's not much of

a warranty, to begin with...IMHO. Someone's just being a bit too cautious,

or doesn't want the responsibility, or do the work.

 

 

CB

[mgrasso]

It was the sales rep at GC.

Then followed up with "Do you want to Now purchase our extended warranty?"

Which I kindly declined.

But now that I am curious, I sent an e-mail just the same to inquire.

M

[charlie brown]

It was the sales rep at GC.

Then followed up with "Do you want to Now purchase our extended warranty?"

Which I kindly declined.

But now that I am curious, I sent an e-mail just the same to inquire.

M

 

Well...that explains everything!

 

CB

[Gunner]

mgrasso,

 

I ordered the same guitar from MF and just received it today. Mine has the same finish issue where the binding on the upper horn meets the neck, but not on the lower horn. This doesn't bother me, and can probably be scraped away like Charlie mentioned. The finish on the f-holes seems a lot better too, though not perfect. Like yours, the guitar plays wonderfully. I was pleasantly surprised in that regard. The frets are a little rough but they will smooth over with time or I can hit them with some steel wool. The pickguard on mine is very slightly warped, but I probably wouldn't have noticed it except for your post. That bound pick guard is really a thing of beauty IMHO.

 

A minor problem on mine seems to be that the Bigsby is mounted slightly crooked. You can tell if you look at how the strings are centered where they pass under the bar that holds the strings down. The low E is almost up against the side of the Bigsby, whereas there is a lot of space on the high E side. In looking at the second picture in your original post, it looks to be the same way. This bugs me a little, but not enough to send it back.

 

One thing that I didn't realize until I got the guitar is that the binding is a fairly dark cream color. You can really see this in your pictures but it's not so noticeable on the web sites. Not bad, just different than I expected. The neck is very chunky, and isn't what I would call a "slim profile", but I like it. Much thicker than the Elitist Dot.

 

I also have the Gibson Alex Lifeson ES-355, and after I have the Epiphone broken in I plan to do a detailed comparison. My first reaction is that the Epiphone isn't too far off and definitely way more bang for the buck. If they had offered the Epiphone 355's back in 2008 I might not have bought the Gibson.

 

Let us know how your replacement turns out. I hope the third time is a charm for you.

 

Tom