ToneMonster Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 Hi all, Got some of the updates done on the 2nd ES 355 I got so I thought I'd share some Epi porn with ya'll. Just finished putting in the Elephant Ivory nut and Babicz Full Contact Hardware bridge. I've got several things to report for those interested. First off the nut install went off without a hitch. When installing the bridge I ran into a surprise. Even though the bridge came with mounting pegs for both USA and Metric installs the bridge for the 355 did not match either. The metric sleeve was too small and the USA was too large. I could not use the existing sleeve as the threaded pegs were too large also. What had to be done was to redrill the sleeve hole for the larger sleeve and pegs. Not a bad thing as they mounted much deeper with more wood contact and was much beefier in the end. Un fortunately though even with a new titanium cobalt bit and taping the drill location their was still minor cracking in the poly finish near one of the mounting holes. It is barely noticable on very close inspection and I don't think it will present a long term problem but I included a pic so you could see. Bottom line is it is a rock solid install and with exceptional tonal results. Now for the shocker. Upon removal of the stock bridge I come to find out it is not a Tonelock like advertised!!! Once the strings we're removed it flopped around and wobbled like a fish out of water. The bridge looked pretty cheesy to me when view by itself although it still sound great ion my original 355. Checked my other one and it's the same. The bottom is stamped B-2??? Called Gibson and informed them of this and they said they didn't know what was going on, however they assured me they would get me the proper bridge and send it to me under warrantee. For those of you with new Epi's it might be worth a check. Now for the good news. The upgrades made significant tonal differences for the positive. Not sure to what proportion it is attributed to the nut or bridge but together it is awesome. The guitar seems like it breathes freely now. Almost like it was restricted before. Note to note articulation when strumming (especially with overdrive crunch/distortion) is clear as a bell and highly defined. Intonation was more easily achieved with the new bridge with less sharpening of the G,B strings in open chordings and generally the guitar just feels alive. You can actually feel the increased vibration transmitted up the neck during playing and when played clean there is a definite bell like chiminess not present before. Gotta say this was a well worthwhile upgrade. I can only imagine what the Genuine Gibson 57's and new wiring harness will do for it. I will post more pics and sound clips to this thread as they are completed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolling56 Posted December 22, 2011 Share Posted December 22, 2011 The nut job looks pretty bad to me. Do you have any radius gauges? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaSTuS Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 The nut job looks pretty bad to me. Do you have any radius gauges? Yeah, looks like it could have the top taken down a bit, the slots should only be deep enough to take a little less than half the string's diameter. Still very good upgrades though and seeing as they have improved the resonance so much, they seem to be extremely well chosen, it'll be interesting to see what further enhancement can be found with the pickup and wiring upgrades, looking forward to hearing of your progress TM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 Those Babizc bridges look killer...in build and design........Pricey, but hey, worth it I take it......... IMHO, Gibby 57s make any guitar sound great............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hungrycat Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 I'm not totally sold on the Babicz bridges for Gibson style guitars. They really sell the whole "full contact" but they have a tune-o-matic replacement. Tune-o-matics sit on two studs and don't touch the face of the guitar. *facepalm* Don't get me wrong, I like the "full contact" concept, there's just no way to properly do it on a Gibson (style) guitar. I would chalk up any noticeable difference between the Babicz and the stock bridge to the mass of the Babicz, because it looks frikkin' huge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaSTuS Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 I'm not totally sold on the Babicz bridges for Gibson style guitars. They really sell the whole "full contact" but they have a tune-o-matic replacement. Tune-o-matics sit on two studs and don't touch the face of the guitar. *facepalm* Don't get me wrong, I like the "full contact" concept, there's just no way to properly do it on a Gibson (style) guitar. I would chalk up any noticeable difference between the Babicz and the stock bridge to the mass of the Babicz, because it looks frikkin' huge. I'd go for a Wilkinson roller on a Bigsby geet myself, they actually screw to the posts and are solid as a rock. Wilkinson Roller Thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 Now for the shocker. Upon removal of the stock bridge I come to find out it is not a Tonelock like advertised!!! Once the strings we're removed it flopped around and wobbled like a fish out of water. The bridge looked pretty cheesy to me when view by itself although it still sound great ion my original 355. Checked my other one and it's the same. The bottom is stamped B-2??? Called Gibson and informed them of this and they said they didn't know what was going on, however they assured me they would get me the proper bridge and send it to me under warrantee. For those of you with new Epi's it might be worth a check. I pulled the bridge on mine and it is also not a Tonelock. Stamped B-2 on the bottom like yours. Also, both of my pickups say "CH57(G)". If the bridge pickup is supposed to be an Alnico Classic Plus, should it say "HOTCH". The neck measures 8.35k and the bridge 8.50k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hungrycat Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 I'd go for a Wilkinson roller on a Bigsby geet myself, they actually screw to the posts and are solid as a rock. I agree. I've got one on my Explorer and I've no troubles with it. To be honest it looks like it's equally "full contact" as the Babicz bridge (Disregarding the fact that it has a roller in the saddle). I am intrigued by Babicz though. I really want to get hold of one of their bridges for one of my Fender basses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToneMonster Posted December 24, 2011 Author Share Posted December 24, 2011 I pulled the bridge on mine and it is also not a Tonelock. Stamped B-2 on the bottom like yours. Also, both of my pickups say "CH57(G)". If the bridge pickup is supposed to be an Alnico Classic Plus, should it say "HOTCH". The neck measures 8.35k and the bridge 8.50k. Interesting. I'll let you know about mine when I pull them. Don't get me wrong I like Epiphone products and I think the ES 355 as received was a great guitar, but when the advertise that they are giving you special electronics/pickups and special hardware then that's what you should get. This is VERY Disturbing!!! I wonder if the Factory is pulling one over on the Epi company or if it is being done with their blessing? Do they really think that their customer base would not notice and then speak of it with the community? Curious what the thought are of this board. Maybe in another thread. Bottom line is that they should make it right for all those affected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToneMonster Posted December 24, 2011 Author Share Posted December 24, 2011 I'm not totally sold on the Babicz bridges for Gibson style guitars. They really sell the whole "full contact" but they have a tune-o-matic replacement. Tune-o-matics sit on two studs and don't touch the face of the guitar. *facepalm* Don't get me wrong, I like the "full contact" concept, there's just no way to properly do it on a Gibson (style) guitar. I would chalk up any noticeable difference between the Babicz and the stock bridge to the mass of the Babicz, because it looks frikkin' huge. Actually the bottom of the bridge has an adapter plate that is arched so the entire bottom of the bridge is in full contact with the body except for the small space under the 2 posts. However the posts are beefy and go nearly twice as deep into the center block. I will say though that the mass of the bridge is a major contributing factor and to top it all off it is aluminum so vibrations transmit much more freely than with the pot metal stock bridge. As a side note the bridge is extremely comfortable because it is smooth over the entire top and it works better than any other bridge I have played for palm muting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaSTuS Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 I am intrigued by Babicz though. I really want to get hold of one of their bridges for one of my Fender basses. I think the Babicz is a fine option, I'd like to try one out myself, but a major determining factor for me is cost, being a pensioner, bang for buck (in a monetary value sense, LOL) is my life motto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 I'd go for a Wilkinson roller on a Bigsby geet myself, they actually screw to the posts and are solid as a rock. Wilkinson Roller Thread Ah yes.....Great thread......I put one of those Wilkinson Rollers on a Gibby S.G...........Being the "Radical Rebel" that I am, I made it fit by bending posts and 'gentle' hammering......Who says that metric won't fit U.S. standard sizings ??? ........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaSTuS Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 Ah yes.....Great thread......I put one of those Wilkinson Rollers on a Gibby S.G...........Being the "Radical Rebel" that I am, I made it fit by bending posts and 'gentle' hammering......Who says that metric won't fit U.S. standard sizings ??? ........... ROFPML Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordy01 Posted December 24, 2011 Share Posted December 24, 2011 Actually the bottom of the bridge has an adapter plate that is arched so the entire bottom of the bridge is in full contact with the body except for the small space under the 2 posts. However the posts are beefy and go nearly twice as deep into the center block. I will say though that the mass of the bridge is a major contributing factor and to top it all off it is aluminum so vibrations transmit much more freely than with the pot metal stock bridge. As a side note the bridge is extremely comfortable because it is smooth over the entire top and it works better than any other bridge I have played for palm muting. All of the things you mention will contribute to a better coupling, therefore better tone. I was wondering about palm muting, as it seems there is a bit of height over the top of the strings on the bridge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hungrycat Posted December 25, 2011 Share Posted December 25, 2011 Actually the bottom of the bridge has an adapter plate that is arched so the entire bottom of the bridge is in full contact with the body except for the small space under the 2 posts. Alrighty then. I stand corrected. Good job Babicz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToneMonster Posted December 26, 2011 Author Share Posted December 26, 2011 I was wondering about palm muting, as it seems there is a bit of height over the top of the strings on the bridge. There is a bit of height as you mentioned. The smooth surface with recessed strings makes for extreme comfort while playing, if like me, you use the bridge for support and a rest/reference point. For palm muting all you need to do is slight move your entire hand forward just slightly palm muting is easily accomplished and controlled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToneMonster Posted December 26, 2011 Author Share Posted December 26, 2011 Most Semi-Hollows (incl. Gibson) don't have a hotter pickup at the bridge.... While this is true and works well for the most part, the company should not tout that as a feature and promote it as such in their promotions and descriptions and then not follow through with their claims. One of the primary selling point of this guitar is that they have already done many of the things that owners want to do as upgrades. i.e. 57 style pickups with a hotter bridge position, bridge with increased tonal properties, full size pots etc. Historically many owners have upgraded the pickups, bridges, electronics on these and many other Epi's. Their product promotion and descriptions go to great lengths to give the buyer the impression that they will no longer have to factor these upgrades into the purchase equation. The fact that what they promise is not even included is of great concern to many I am sure. I am very curious to what extent this effects the current run of Epi guitars. They make it very clear that all Epi's now come with the locktone bridge and that the pickups are different for bridge and neck position. If this has happened with multiple models, this will surely turn into a PR Fiasco. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hungrycat Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 There is a bit of height as you mentioned. The smooth surface with recessed strings makes for extreme comfort while playing, if like me, you use the bridge for support and a rest/reference point. For palm muting all you need to do is slight move your entire hand forward just slightly palm muting is easily accomplished and controlled. I had a little problem with this on my aforementioned Wilkinson bridge. Took me a few weeks to really get it down right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyGibson Posted December 26, 2011 Share Posted December 26, 2011 Epi has a known history of not being the most accurate and/or up to date with their descriptions. The 2012 catalog very clearly in the small print on the second page states, "Epiphone reserves the right to change prices and specifications without notice". Must be a new CYA move the attorneys came up with, because I don't recall seeing it earlier This to me implies to me, the specifications we read are irrelevant. The buyer needs to decide if it is still what they want after getting it home and finding differences between what they thought they were buying and what they received. If you can live with the differences, keep it. If not, return it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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