EuroAussie Posted February 12, 2012 Posted February 12, 2012 You will all probably think Im a bit of a dufus for only realising now but i was always perplexed why the neck felt so different between my SJ and the Bird. I put it down to the fact the Bird is 1 11/16 while the SJ 1 3/4 and not so pencil think like the Bird'. But today I got the tape measure out and much to my shock the Bird came in at 45cm while the SJ at 42.8cm, which makes the Bird a long scale ! No wonder I was struggling for so long to get that warm honey sweet tones out of her like a true Bird ! (for those not in the now she started as a CW and I later made her become a Bird through a pickguard and tuner adjustment). Anyway, is that odd to have long scale Birds and CW's ?
KL Posted February 12, 2012 Posted February 12, 2012 As far as I know both a J-45 and a Hummingbird have a 24 3/4" scale length. I believe the Hummingbird has had this scale length since it's introduction in 1960. You said your guitar was converted to a Hummingbird, so maybe that is where this difference arises.
E-minor7 Posted February 12, 2012 Posted February 12, 2012 I'm on the dufus-team. My 1968 SJ – which have been in case for a while, but played Thursday, Fri and yesterday - is a long scale too and I didn't know. Though ours are from the late60's, the 25,5 seem to appear here and there up through the decade. Let's try to investigate if there is a pattern that shows more 'longs' from '68 and up. . .
DanvillRob Posted February 12, 2012 Posted February 12, 2012 As far as I know both a J-45 and a Hummingbird have a 24 3/4" scale length. I believe the Hummingbird has had this scale length since it's introduction in 1960. You said your guitar was converted to a Hummingbird, so maybe that is where this difference arises. Seems to me I've heard of long-scale 'Birds.... maybe back in the late 60's.
EuroAussie Posted February 12, 2012 Author Posted February 12, 2012 Well at least it explains why I always thought there was a lot of vintage D-18 in the tone I was hearing, now this explains a few things..
J-1854Me Posted February 12, 2012 Posted February 12, 2012 The scale length changed to 25.5" in the later '60s -- most put it at around 1968 -- for the SJ, SJ-N/Country Western. I think the Dove was always long scale, but the Hummingbird was short scale until 1968 too, IIRC. The J-45/J-50 joined the crowd by that time too. I'm pretty sure the pickguards were affixed with screws too in the later '60s, while the earlier versions were simply glued on. Fred
E-minor7 Posted February 12, 2012 Posted February 12, 2012 If we look at the 2 Vintage Gibson sites on the web, they don't mention the possible general change of scale length after 1967. There are more than a handful of of '68-'69 squares on the Bay right right now. Though they could be 'longs' as I see them, none of the adds talk about scale either. You might have turned the spotlight on a half obscure topic here EA -
pschaafs Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 My '69 J-50 is long scale as well, and has a skinny nut to boot -1.5" as I measure it. No screws on the pickguard though...
Rambler Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 Seems to me that some off the early J185s and Birds to come out of Mt were also 25.5
Gibson101 Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 You will all probably think Im a bit of a dufus for only realising now but i was always perplexed why the neck felt so different between my SJ and the Bird. I put it down to the fact the Bird is 1 11/16 while the SJ 1 3/4 and not so pencil think like the Bird'. But today I got the tape measure out and much to my shock the Bird came in at 45cm while the SJ at 42.8cm, which makes the Bird a long scale ! No wonder I was struggling for so long to get that warm honey sweet tones out of her like a true Bird ! (for those not in the now she started as a CW and I later made her become a Bird through a pickguard and tuner adjustment). Anyway, is that odd to have long scale Birds and CW's ? Just changing a pick guard and tuners does not make a CW a Bird, does it? Hope your still loving that AL Sj, I get thrown off every time you say it's got a 1 3/4" nut though. It's just standard Gibson at 1.725, yes it's awfully close but your CW is only a 32nd of an inch difference from Gibson's perfect 1.725 nut as well.
EuroAussie Posted February 13, 2012 Author Posted February 13, 2012 Well, in theory a thicker guard and tulips should make it into a Bird, as if you take a short scale the only differences are the tuners and the pickguard. Most CW's and Birds are short scale. What I did notice however was that adding a thicker guard definetely mellowed out the tone somewhat and made it more Bird like. But if you throw in a long scale into the equestion then its a different ball game indeed. btw: yes stll loving the AL SJ, its definitely become my 'go to' Gibson, plus I had a cracking gig with it last Friday so the bonding is getting even stronger. The J-150 was taking honors for 'go to' gigging guitar but now its about 50/50% with the SJ ;-) Just changing a pick guard and tuners does not make a CW a Bird, does it? Hope your still loving that AL Sj, I get thrown off every time you say it's got a 1 3/4" nut though. It's just standard Gibson at 1.725, yes it's awfully close but your CW is only a 32nd of an inch difference from Gibson's perfect 1.725 nut as well.
SoonerBuckeye Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 George Gruhn's book shows that the first 'Birds were 24 3/4". Then in 1965 they changed to 25 1/2". Then changed back to 24 3/4" in 1984. Then back to 25 1/2" in 1989. Then changed again (with name change to Early 60's Hummingbird) to 24 3/4" in 1997. Then again changed name to just Hummingbird in 1999 (scale did not change). All done in true Gibson schizonphrenic style.
Hogeye Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 Seems to me that some off the early J185s and Birds to come out of Mt were also 25.5 The first Hummingbirds that came from Montana were long scale. They changed to short scale in late '93 if memory serves.They were short scale by '94. When they switched the sound was amazing. The first one I heard was at Music Villa and it was being played by a guy who was turned away from me. I thought it was a vintage guitar as it sounded totally Gibson. When I looked it was new having just been delivered. I played it for a couple of minutes and figured it was a shorty. Gibson never announced the change they just enjoyed the sales jump on a wonderful guitar. I would love to know the year of the guitar in question. Might pinpoint the date a little better. They did a batch or two of long scales later for a vintage reissues. The long scale never sold and they soon dropped the reissue.
E-minor7 Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 George Gruhn's book shows that the first 'Birds were 24 3/4". Then in 1965 they changed to 25 1/2". And then as always there are the exceptions – Remember this one ? http://www.ebay.com/...E:X:RTQ:US:1123 Btw. I've played a short scale square SJ from 1967.
passthej45 Posted February 14, 2012 Posted February 14, 2012 Well, in theory a thicker guard and tulips should make it into a Bird, as if you take a short scale the only differences are the tuners and the pickguard. Most CW's and Birds are short scale. What I did notice however was that adding a thicker guard definetely mellowed out the tone somewhat and made it more Bird like. But if you throw in a long scale into the equestion then its a different ball game indeed. btw: yes stll loving the AL SJ, its definitely become my 'go to' Gibson, plus I had a cracking gig with it last Friday so the bonding is getting even stronger. The J-150 was taking honors for 'go to' gigging guitar but now its about 50/50% with the SJ ;-) EA, I am lost in the translation. What the heck is a "cracking gig" ?
EuroAussie Posted February 14, 2012 Author Posted February 14, 2012 Ha,ha ... well, I didnt mean that the guitar cracked, thats for sure. It meant it was great gig, I really loved the tone I was getting from the SJ, plus we had a great audience with lots of interaction (eye contact, Wily) and ended basically as a big Karaoke session with 5 girls doing (backup, if thats the word) to my singer for the last song which was Angels by Robbie Williams. In other words, a crackin' gig ! :-) EA, I am lost in the translation. What the heck is a "cracking gig" ?
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