onewilyfool Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 I'm hoping that KSdaddy and Therm chirp in here, but it is my understanding that you get more sound, volume and sustain when the strings are setup HIGHER than LOWER. The local place where I get my guitar set up, the guy really pushes the 3/32" at the 12th fret, because he says it sounds better. Lower action may make the guitar play better for your own style, but you may be sacrificing some sound quality. If you have a cannon J200 it might not be a problem, but on some smaller body guitars, you may pay a price.....interested in opinions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grampa Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 The lower action makes it harder to hit the strings hard without buzzing against the frets. I think the ideal would be to get the action as close as possible without the buzzing. Lower action is easier to play. I don't think the distance from string to fretboard has any effect per se on the sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thermionik Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 Big strumming, heavy hitting - you need a high action and heavy strings. Delicate and fast picking and bends - a lower action makes life easier. Inbetween - you need inbetween - no hard and fast rule, it has to suit YOU..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jefleppard Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 i have always believed this - higher=volume - and in most cases its true. the string gets to vibrate free of frets and fretboard. however, the guild F50 i played at elderly last week had very low action, no buzz and was very loud, too. i didn't undestand why or how it could be true, but it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vourot Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 I played a Yamaha L series and the action was set really low. No buzzing and it sounded really good.So much so that if I had found it before I bought my gibson I would have given serious consideration to buying it.Silky smooth and it was around a 1000 bucks I think.Engleman spruce top As I recall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LesLawrence Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 As I watched my luthier shave down the height of the saddle on my Crow, I had the temerity to ask if this would destroy some of the beautiful tone on this guitar. He answered, "Of course, but trust me it will sound better because you will be able to play it better". He was right. Cheers, Les Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewilyfool Posted November 19, 2008 Author Share Posted November 19, 2008 Vourot....I hear you about those L-series yahamas.......by the way, just checked out a Morgan, local luthier where you are located......VERY nice sounding guitar.....flawless fit and finish....Have you played any? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballcorner Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 I have done numerous experiments with guitar action on various types of acoustics and there are some common threads in my experience. Here is my list: Really low action (3/32nds) often means fret slap and potential buzz if you play up the neck or play hard occasionally. It can make the guitar sound flat, and it can considerably lower volume. Truss adjustments are very critical with this setup and the guitar will need servicing every change of season if the house is not completely climate controlled. Mid action (5/32nds) tends to work for most people rather well - a balance of volume and playability combine to provide range in various styles of playing. This is the action I most commonly set for guitars my friends play. Mid high to high action and staggered action (above 5/32nds) -- in this range a guitar can be as loud as you want with little concern for buzzing or fret slap, however few people can play with any control or speed beyond the fifth fret. This action, then, is suitable for a person who wants a lot of volume (a busker, for example, playing acoustic outdoors) to strum in first and second position. Things to avoid in having your action set: Never let anyone shave your bridge - if the guitar needs a neck reset, get it done - shaving the bridge is a temporary solution with long term losses that can never be fully repaired. Deepening nut slots. A properly installed nut will almost never require that the nut slots be deepened. Usually, a tech who wants to do this does not understand how to properly adjust the truss rod in relation to the saddle height. There are exceptions to this rule, but make sure the person doing the work really has a lot of experience before agreeing to this procedure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarstrummer Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 Are you sure you have your numbers right, ballcorner? Wouldn't 5/64" be lower than 3/32"? I like to run around 7/64" on the low E at the 12th fret and 5/64" on the high E at the 12th and I strum pretty hard. Anything lower than that and I usually get some buzz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rar Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 Really low action (3/32nds) ... Mid action (5/64ths) ... Okay' date=' I'm officially confused. 3/32nds is higher than 5/64ths. Did you mean 3/64ths (which certainly qualifies as very low)? Deepening nut slots. A properly installed nut will almost never require that the nut slots be deepened. Usually, a tech who wants to do this does not understand how to properly adjust the truss rod in relation to the saddle height. I guess I'm still confused, because this seems very odd to me. First, my experience is exactly the opposite -- factory-cut nut slots tend to be a little shallow for most players, because having to file them deeper when the guitar is set up is better than having to fill them. Second, truss rods are adjusted to get proper neck relief. Proper neck relief really has nothing to do with saddle height. Admittedly, you can add a little relief to compensate for a too-low saddle (or uneven frets, or ...), but that's not actually the "proper" way to go. Ideally, you dial in the relief you prefer, then you adjust the saddle to get the 12th fret clearance you want. (In real life, neck and fret geometry might dictate a little extra relief, but not saddle height.) Third, neck relief adjustments can't affect whether the nut slots are the right depth, because a significant truss rod adjustment has almost no effect on the neck between the third fret and the nut, and clearance of a string over the first fret when fretted at the third fret is what determines proper nut slot depth. The main symptom of slightly too shallow nut slots is that first-position chords will require too much effort to fret, and a truss rod adjustment isn't going to do anything about that. -- Bob R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballcorner Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 I am very sorry - I put 64ths where I should have put 32nds because I was converting from metric and not paying enough attention. I apologize for confusing the issue - I have edited my post to reflect the dimensions I intended and hope this makes the information more useful as a response to the posting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballcorner Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 Proper neck relief really has nothing to do with saddle height. Admittedly' date=' you can add a little relief to compensate for a too-low saddle (or uneven frets, or ...), but that's not actually the "proper" way to go. edited . . . neck relief adjustments can't affect whether the nut slots are the right depth, because a significant truss rod adjustment has almost no effect on the neck between the third fret and the nut, and clearance of a string over the first fret when fretted at the third fret is what determines proper nut slot depth. -- Bob R[/quote'] I am happy to have this explained so well. I think what you are saying is much more appropriate than what I have been told and what I had learned. Specific to one guitar, a tech wanted to lower the nut slots and when I asked him why he said it was part of bringing the action down. It was an expensive hand made guitar (a Morgan) and I couldn't understand why the nut wouldn't be right from the maker. I took it to a luthier who found that there was too much relief in the neck and the saddle height was about 1mm too high. When the saddle was skimmed and the neck made a bit more flat the guitar was perfect and he described it to me as having a relationship to the nut slot depth. It was this luthier who told me never to allow anyone to make my nut slots deeper and he is so experienced I felt that must be good advice. Still, in reading your sensible comments, it seems much more logical that the nut slots have a relationship to frets one through three than they do to the overall span from the nut to the saddle - which is what I understood the luthier to be telling me - so I hope the poster takes your advice on the matter as I have done. Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thermionik Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 . . I thought I over-complicated stuff..... . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballcorner Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 .. I thought I over-complicated stuff..... . Oh, sometimes you do - today it was my turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmngretsch14 Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 Low action isn't any good for slide either -- if that counts for anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lee Walker Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 I keep one guitar specifically set up for slide. I like the action high, and I replace the b string with a g and move the b over to the e to get a fat tone that I like. I'm not sure of the measurements (now I am curious and plan to measure when I get home) but I played with the action until I got it as close to perfect as I could. I just experimented with it until i got 'that' sound. Good topic. This is why I come here:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted November 20, 2008 Share Posted November 20, 2008 As a fingerpicker, I find anything beyond 4/32" to be trouble. 3/32" on the low E is better. Volume, loudness, seems to be more a function of the downward pressure of the strings on the saddle - not necessarily related to the action at the 12th fret. It is possible to have 3/32" at the 12th with a "tall" saddle, sharp break angle on the bridge and lots of volume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeebee Posted November 21, 2008 Share Posted November 21, 2008 7.5/64ths to 5/64ths (high E) here and no problem..........just give er. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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