Advanced Jumbo Question

[GDC]

Picked up a nice AJ used (2010) at GC today. Nice box. WHat are the major differences (other than the bridge, ornamentation, and rosewood b/s) between the AJ and the J-45? I did a search, perhaps an inept one, and coundn't find a discussion on it. I hope someone will be kind enough to indulge this question which has probably been discussed ad nauseum previously.

 

Thanks

[Guth]

The AJ features a longer scale length and forward shifted bracing. In addition to the smaller, rectangular bridge, the bridge plate itself is also considerably smaller. The back braces on the AJ fairly massive as well, relatively speaking.

[Red 333]

Picked up a nice AJ used (2010) at GC today. Nice box. WHat are the major differences (other than the bridge, ornamentation, and rosewood b/s) between the AJ and the J-45? I did a search, perhaps an inept one, and coundn't find a discussion on it. I hope someone will be kind enough to indulge this question which has probably been discussed ad nauseum previously.

 

Thanks

 

J-45 bracing has evolved over the years, so can differ from year to year. That said, the AJ's bracing has always been sufficiently different from the J-45's, right from its introduction in 1942. The same holds true today, except for the J-45 TV; the top bracing is the same on both the AJ and the J-45 TV, though the backs of each are braced differently).

 

Basic differences between the J-45 Standard and AJ are the position and angle of the x-brace. I believe that AJ x-bracing is a few degrees narrower and a wee bit closer to the soundhole.

 

The AJ's back bracing is very different, being both lower and wider (particularly the #3 and #4 braces, which are the bottom two). Present-day J-45 Standards, J-45 TV's, J-45 Legends, J-45 Customs, and Southern Jumbo TV's each have their own back bracing patterns, all of which are different from the AJ's as well as one another. It's likely that other present-day J-45 variants I haven't mentioned may, too.

 

Guth pointed out the AJ's long-scale, which is a contributor to the AJ's sound. In the sixties, the Gibson-made Epiphone Texan was essentially long-scale J-45.

 

Red 333

[merseybeat1963]

Congratulations..on the guitar.

[E-minor7]

If I'm not totally off, even the body shapes them selves differ -

AJ's being longer.

[Red 333]

If I'm not totally off, even the body shapes them selves differ -

AJ's being longer.

 

Scale-length differs (distance between nut and saddle), not body dimensions.

 

Red 333

[E-minor7]

Scale-length differs (distance between nut and saddle), not body dimensions.

 

Red 333

Aha - when you say so there's weight in it.

BUT, , , , I had the 2 beside each other a short period where I A/B'ed to find out what suited me the best and remember it differently. I may be wrong.

 

Then again look at this little 2010 exchange from before I purchased the 2 in the flesh.

 

 

To Boris Franz - Thank you for your time and answers. I'm very close to the Advanced Jumbo. The rosewood for more projection calls me. Also the AJ is longer scaled, where does that show, , , the neck length, but also in body size ?

 

Best Thoughts,

 

 

Good morning

 

The Advanced Jumbo has a slightly longer body than the J-45. Here we send you the dimensions :

 

Total length of body Advanced Jumbo = 20.188"

 

Total length of body J-45 = 19.875

 

Here the waist dimensions of both gutiars

 

J-45 : Waist = 10.764"

 

Advanced Jumbo : Waist = 10.458"

 

Kind regards,

 

Boris Franz

Customer Service

Excellent service there.

And exiting situation – seems we have a little summer mystery goin'.

One of us is off. Let's see what happens.

Btw. Just saw 2 24,75 scale AJ's while researching a bit at Wildwoods.

 

 

 

 

 

[MiloMinderbinder]

Aha - when you say so there's weight in it.

BUT, , , , I had the 2 beside each other a short period where I A/B'ed to find out what suited me the best and remember it differently. I may be wrong.

 

How would you compare the sound between the two, and if possible, how would you compare the AJ to a Martin dred (two rosewood dreds)?

[JohnnyReb]

How would you compare the sound between the two, and if possible, how would you compare the j

 

The j45 and AJ will have different tone obviously because of rosewood Vrs mahagony. Speaking of volume and power the AJ will stomp a mud hole in a j45. AJ were made to compete with Martins pre war D28. I've owned several D28 series Martins and the only one that competed with my AJ was the HD28V. I swapped my standard D28 for the AJ and it is my main bluegrass guitar simply because of the volume and punch.

 

the AJ is simply louder than the D28 and HD28 in my experience. The AJ is more balanced but carries less bass than the martins. Depending on strings you can get very close in tone but the AJ still sounds like a Gibson.....just a Gibson on steroids. I've always bought martins in the past because I need loud guitars with lots of headroom and the Gibsons were to soft and moderate. When I discovered the AJ I finally found a Gibson that had the Martin volume and power and then some. So Basicly they compare very well to Martins, and u surely won't get left in the dust by any of them. However, they are apples to oranges. One sounds like a Gibson and the other a Martin. I'm just stating that you won't be overpowered by the Martin sound when strumming a AJ

[Guth]

How would you compare the sound between the two, and if possible, how would you compare the AJ to a Martin dred (two rosewood dreds)?

 

If you click on the link at the bottom of my post titled "my music", you can listen to recordings I made with a J-45 TV and an Advanced Jumbo. The tunes "Backcountry" and "Rumble Seat" feature the AJ while "Corn On The Cob" and "Walking Nick" feature the J-45.

 

As far as comparisons with Martin D28 series guitars go, JohnnyReb summed things up nicely. I'm primarily a fingerpicker and typically the Martin dreads simply aren't balanced enough for my preferences (that's certainly not to say that others haven't created some awesome fingerstyle music on Martin dreads). In addition, D28 Martins typically have more overtones than the AJ, which is one more reason why I prefer the AJ for my playing.

[MiloMinderbinder]

thanks, guys.

 

Guth - cool tunes. I especially like Corn on the Cob.

[Red 333]

Aha - when you say so there's weight in it.

BUT, , , , I had the 2 beside each other a short period where I A/B'ed to find out what suited me the best and remember it differently. I may be wrong.

 

Then again look at this little 2010 exchange from before I purchased the 2 in the flesh.

 

 

To Boris Franz - Thank you for your time and answers. I'm very close to the Advanced Jumbo. The rosewood for more projection calls me. Also the AJ is longer scaled, where does that show, , , the neck length, but also in body size ?

 

Best Thoughts,

 

 

Good morning

 

 

 

The Advanced Jumbo has a slightly longer body than the J-45. Here we send you the dimensions :

 

Total length of body Advanced Jumbo = 20.188"

 

Total length of body J-45 = 19.875

 

Here the waist dimensions of both gutiars

 

J-45 : Waist = 10.764"

 

Advanced Jumbo : Waist = 10.458"

 

Kind regards,

 

Boris Franz

Customer Service

Excellent service there.

And exiting situation – seems we have a little summer mystery goin'.

One of us is off. Let's see what happens.

Btw. Just saw 2 24,75 scale AJ's while researching a bit at Wildwoods.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Knock me over with a feather. Maybe there's something to it, then. I'll take some measurements today. THANKS!

 

There ARE short-scale AJ's (I have a maple-bodied one), but they are somewhat of a rarity. Bozeman has built some variations recently that depart from the classic and original long scale/rosewood formula.

 

Red 333

[Jinder]

The AJ is an incredible guitar...well, mine is at least. I've never played a bad one, I'd vote for the AJ as the most consistently good acoustic that Gibson make.

 

Most of the details have been covered here, but in terms of personality the AJ is louder than a J45 (the loudest acoustic I've ever heard), smoother in the mids, bigger and more focused in the bottom end, with a fat, chiming ring at the top end. It works well for strumming and excels when flatpicked or fingerpicked.

 

It's a great vocal accompaniment instrument if you're a loud, bold male singer. It would drown out a meek vocalist and, in frequency terms, might sit uneasily with the female voice.

 

My main stage/writing/recording guitar was an SJ200 for years, until I wore it out (and it wore my shoulder out, due to its massive bulk). That was my "do everything" guitar...I loved it and never imagined another guitar could surpass it, but the AJ is a worthy successor to say the least. Very different, but definitely an equal and possibly even better.

[Red 333]

The AJ is an incredible guitar...well, mine is at least. I've never played a bad one, I'd vote for the AJ as the most consistently good acoustic that Gibson make.

 

 

Nice to see you, Jinder! We miss you around here.

 

Red 333

[E-minor7]

How would you compare the sound between the two, and if possible, how would you compare the AJ to a Martin dred (two rosewood dreds)?

J-45's are different, not only from ex. to ex. but from wave to wave. I've had 3 vintage – '53, '59 and '50 - still own 2. The 1953 has been through some refurbishing back in time and is much softer, but also the 2 others differed. The early one having lighter braces than the 1959 – a change that happened in the middle of the decade.

 

My 2010 Standard is much louder than my mates '05 Historic Collection. They almost can't jam together.

This Standard was the one A/B'ed with the AJ. The latter big sounding and living up to the acoustic canon nickname, the 45 - at the time a bit slow with an underdeveloped A-string response - still so charming and full of character. Precisely that gave the AJ the rear wheel. Though filling the room, the Jumbo simply came across a bit plain. Have to add it was new and it would have been fine to hear it a few years on. As you understand it was passed on to a blues man, who made authentic wonders with his slide-tube on that thing. Never regretted it a second.

 

In comparison with the Mart. dread, I would call the AJ more vintage sounding – maybe due to the forward shifted X. Thus it would be closer to a HD-28V than a straight 28. And still the important difference would be basic nature of the deers - The Gibson versus Martin flavor.

With this as some kind of (hope useful) road map, you really need to go out and try those guitars live. Please report.

[GDC]

Thanks for your replies. The two look alike but are quite different. It amazes me that subtle differences can create such variation in the sound of two guitars. It make me want one of everything. :)

[Gruffchris]

listen to recordings I made with a J-45 TV and an Advanced Jumbo. T

 

Great tunes, you can really hear both guitars sing.

 

I was thinking which one mine most sounded like and I'd probably go for the AJ.

 

I do think the TV sounds great in "Walking Nick". Makes me GAS for one :)

[Jinder]

Nice to see you, Jinder! We miss you around here.

 

Red 333

 

Thanks Red! I stop by when I can...at the moment I live in an area with pretty patchy mobile internet coverage so everything is S-L-O-W as heck most of the time. It's always great to come here though and I try to contribute when I can.

[Red 333]

Aha - when you say so there's weight in it.

BUT, , , , I had the 2 beside each other a short period where I A/B'ed to find out what suited me the best and remember it differently. I may be wrong.

 

Then again look at this little 2010 exchange from before I purchased the 2 in the flesh.

 

 

To Boris Franz - Thank you for your time and answers. I'm very close to the Advanced Jumbo. The rosewood for more projection calls me. Also the AJ is longer scaled, where does that show, , , the neck length, but also in body size ?

 

Best Thoughts,

 

 

Good morning

 

The Advanced Jumbo has a slightly longer body than the J-45. Here we send you the dimensions :

 

Total length of body Advanced Jumbo = 20.188"

 

Total length of body J-45 = 19.875

 

Here the waist dimensions of both gutiars

 

J-45 : Waist = 10.764"

 

Advanced Jumbo : Waist = 10.458"

 

Kind regards,

 

Boris Franz

Customer Service

Excellent service there.

And exiting situation – seems we have a little summer mystery goin'.

One of us is off. Let's see what happens.

Btw. Just saw 2 24,75 scale AJ's while researching a bit at Wildwoods.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well despite what our nice friend from customer service says, I think the answer is...the Gibson Jumbo shape is something like 20 1/8" tall, give or take, and in the vicinity of 10 7/16" at the narrowest part of the waist, give or take. I measured six of my Gibson slopes (two AJ's two J-45's, one SJ, and one Elitist Texan) and got slight differences from guitar to guitar, though overall there was great consistency. As someone pointed out in another thread, body dimensions will vary slightly due to the relative thickness of the finish, and I suppose how much sanding has been done, how much the wood has shrunk or expanded with humidity, and other factors that are the result of the guitar being a lightly built, largely hand-made wooden object. I'm sure I introduced some error here and there, too, despite my best efforts.

 

For what it's worth, here's what I got:

 

AJ

Length = 20 1/8"

Waist = 10 7/16"

Depth at Upper Shoulders (at neck) = 3 13/16"

Depth at Lower Bout (at end pin) = 4 13/16"

 

AJ Maple Short Scale

Length = 20 1/8"

Waist = 10 7/16"

Depth at Upper Shoulders (at neck) = 3 13/16"

Depth at Lower Bout (at end pin) = 4 12/16"

 

J-45 Legend

Length = 20 1/8"

Waist = 10 7/16"

Depth at Upper Shoulders (at neck) = 3 12/16"

Depth at Lower Bout (at end pin) = 4 14/16"

 

J-45 True Vintage

Length = 20 2/8"

Waist = 10 9/16"

Depth at Upper Shoulders (at neck) = 3 13/16"

Depth at Lower Bout (at end pin) = 4 13/16"

 

 

Southern Jumbo True Vintage

Length = 20 2/8"

Waist = 10 11/16"

Depth at Upper Shoulders (at neck) = 3 13/16 + "

Depth at Lower Bout (at end pin) = 4 13/16"

 

Epiphone Elitist Texan

Length = 20 3/16"

Waist = 10 9/16"

Depth at Upper Shoulders (at neck) = 3 31/32"

Depth at Lower Bout (at end pin) = 4 15/16"

 

I've seen J-45 blueprints for sale at StewMac. I wonder what they read for the J-45's dimensions. If anyone has them, that would be interesting to know.

 

Anyway, my informal test seems to indicate that the contemporary AJ's body is not shaped any differently from the J-45's by design, at least. Scale lengths are different, of course.

 

Red 333

[E-minor7]

Hello Red 333.

 

A serious line up – it's appreciated.

 

Well they don't seem to differ much, and as you say, small marginals can come down to weather, sanding etc. Yet I'm almost certain my now gone '08 AJ was more longish than the '10 J-45. Despite of optical factors as rosettes, guards even bursts.

All in all a good topic that deserves attention, and hopefully others will contribute.

I'll be the last to hyper-protect the idea the models are more different than stated above, but the sight of that AJ just won't leave the back of my brain.

 

Apropos :

In fact I threw an eye on my square shouldered G's some 10 days ago and noticed they had various measures over the shoulders (a little comment on 45Nicks words in the J-45 case thread – and welcome back Nick, hope to read you some more). Thought this discovery was worthy of a thread, but didn't have time and strength to set it up as it would take some waist and hip measuring also.

Of course it must be done at some point – Have 5 of those here in the temple.

 

Look forward to any opinons -

 

I think it's almost seen here -

 

Approx. the same angle - , , , and scale if judged by the pins.

[KL]

Total length of body Advanced Jumbo = 20.188"

 

Total length of body J-45 = 19.875

 

Here the waist dimensions of both guitars

 

J-45 : Waist = 10.764"

 

Advanced Jumbo : Waist = 10.458"

 

Well that comes as a big surprise to me I always thought the AJ and J-45 body size/shape were identical.

[Red 333]

Total length of body Advanced Jumbo = 20.188"

 

Total length of body J-45 = 19.875

 

Here the waist dimensions of both guitars

 

J-45 : Waist = 10.764"

 

Advanced Jumbo : Waist = 10.458"

 

Well that comes as a big surprise to me I always thought the AJ and J-45 body size/shape were identical.

 

They are identical. See my post.

 

Red 333

[E-minor7]

I wonder if the sound hole on the AJ's are placed a tooth nearer the fretboard and therefor - together with the long scale positioned bridge - creates an optical illusion of the body being longer. This could be due to the forward shifted X, I don't know. Regarding the optical factor, there's also the difference between # of frets after the neck meets the body. Short scaled J-45 has 6 + an 'emty' zone. AJ has clean 6.

 

Read a few places that the waist was narrowed in compared to the 35 back then, , , but was the 35 similar to 45. . . .

Btw. it seems the Advanced Jumbo is back in the catalogue. Saw they made some with hog back'n'sides too.

[Red 333]

Iwonder if the sound hole on the AJ's can be placed a tooth nearer thefretboard and therefor create an optical illusion of the body beinglonger. This could be due to the forward shifted X, I don't know.

 

Reada few places that the waist was narrowed in compared to the the 35back then, , , but was the 35 similar to 45. . . .

 

Are you asking if the contemporary J-35's body is the same as the AJ's? Yes. I can't say conclusively about late 30's/early 40's models, if that's what you're asking (since I don't have any), but it SEEMS like the jumbo body has been pretty consistent in dimension since its inception, if it is to be believed that the contemporary AJ and J-45 Legend replicate vintage instruments exactly.

 

You are right that the position of the AJ's soundole is different from the J-45's. It's about 3/16" closer to the top of the body. You have good eyes! Another factor in thinking the AJ and J-45 body sizes might be different is the number if frets. The AJ (and J-45 Legend) has five frets clear of the body, while the J-45 Standard and True Vintage have six.

 

In addition to those factors, maybe the AJ LOOKS longer to you because the NECK is longer, despite the fewer number of frets (that is an effect of the longer scale length). Next to a J-45, the AJ's neck would extend beyond the J-45's.

 

Red 333

[KL]

They are identical. See my post.

 

Red 333

 

Got it . . . Thanks.