suburude63 Posted November 21, 2008 Posted November 21, 2008 Are these just not so fancy SJ 200s ? Is the bracing ect the same? Please firgive my lack of wood knowledge but what the heck is Bubinbga??? :-) suburude
jchabalk Posted November 21, 2008 Posted November 21, 2008 i think you're right about the sj-100/sj-200 relationship. i was down at the Guitar Showcase in San Jose about a year ago, they had 2 relatively identical used SJ-100s for sale and i got into a conversation with the guy behind the counter about them. There was no binding, plain pickguard etc and tremendously beautiful feel and sound. I think my friend's grandmother used to buy ravioli from Bubinbga
Jayla Posted November 21, 2008 Posted November 21, 2008 I'd like to know about the bracing myself, as I've got an '05 J-100 XTRA and have been compiling info on the guitar for a while now. I've got details on the history of the model, the various wood combinations and appointments, etc., but would like to know more construction details, and how it relates to the other jumbos, aside from being less flashy. If anybody's interested, I'd be happy to put the info I've accumulated so far into a presentable shape and post it in this forum, though it'll probably take me a couple of days to do so. Let me know. In the meanwhile, a couple of words about bubinga: First of all, it's apparently a type of rosewood, and is mistakenly occasionally referred to as African rosewood which it isn't, though it does come from Africa. It's a hard wood, not unlike BR and EIR, though it's more common and thus less expensive. It's also really beautiful, both in its color and patterns. My J-100 has bubinga back and sides (and a sitka top) and I have to say that it sounds great: it has a big, beautiful, rich, ring to it. I much prefer it to the sound of the all maple jumbos I've played (though that flamed maple looks fantastic). Here are a couple of links to threads on the UMGF discussing bubinga: http://theunofficialmartinguitarforum.yuku.com/forum/viewtopic/id/3135 http://theunofficialmartinguitarforum.yuku.com/forum/viewtopic/id/2917 Finally, what's the best way to post pix here? I could put some up of my guitar, if you like.
suburude63 Posted November 21, 2008 Author Posted November 21, 2008 Yes please! post some pics. Best way I have found was post them to Photobucket then copy the HMTL to your post here . Viola! Thanks BTW for the Bubinga links! suburude
krbagman Posted November 22, 2008 Posted November 22, 2008 Hey Jayla............I would love to see what you have discovered about the J-100 model. Seems like a lot of different variations along the way. I have my eye on a 2001 spruce/maple that I think is a J-100XT. I real nice tone but a little buzzy and funds are tight so I'm not sure. Thanks gang! Ken <><
jefleppard Posted November 22, 2008 Posted November 22, 2008 bubinga was discussed at length by a 'wood guy' here in the forum a while back. do a search and you'll find it. if i remember correctly, it is an african wood similar to RW. it has also been said here that the j100 is a blingless j200 - same specs but different appointments. personally, the plain jane j100 is not appealing. but i have seen a burst version w/hog b/s that was quite nice. i have read some reviews saying that the tone is huge. i'd love to play one and see for myself.
Wayne Posted November 22, 2008 Posted November 22, 2008 100 is supposed to have different bracing. I'm about due for a string change and if someone can show me a diagram/photo of what the differences are I can look into my 2002 J100 Xtra For the record I cant tell much difference in sound between the 2, but you dont want to rely on my ear. Even I dont want to rely on my ear.
Jayla Posted November 22, 2008 Posted November 22, 2008 100 is supposed to have different bracing. I'm about due for a string change and if someone can show me a diagram/photo of what the differences are I can look into my 2002 J100 Xtra Wayne, please do check out the bracing in your guitar, and tell us what you find. I'll put together the info I've got and post it here, on Monday probably (take me a little while to get it together). I'll look forward to seeing what you find out.
EScottG Posted November 22, 2008 Posted November 22, 2008 Don't know much about how the specs compare to the 200, but I recently traded for a bubinga J-100 and it sounds (and plays) great. I've gone through several flattops in the past couple of years but this one looks like the keeper. Scott
Wayne Posted November 22, 2008 Posted November 22, 2008 Wayne' date=' please do check out the bracing in your guitar, and tell us what you find. I'll put together the info I've got and post it here, on Monday probably (take me a little while to get it together). I'll look forward to seeing what you find out.[/quote'] It would help if I know what to look for. I dont know nuthin about bracing.
Red 333 Posted November 22, 2008 Posted November 22, 2008 100 is supposed to have different bracing. I'm about due for a string change and if someone can show me a diagram/photo of what the differences are I can look into my 2002 J100 Xtra For the record I cant tell much difference in sound between the 2' date=' but you dont want to rely on my ear. Even I dont want to rely on my ear. [/quote'] Look through the soundhole in the direction of the neck: is the brace you see a horizontal one, or is it another X brace? I'm not sure about modern J200s, but the classic J200s of the 50s had two sets of X braces: one below the soundhole, like you'd expect, and one set above. The J200 has had many bracing configurations over the years (moreso than any other Gibson, it is said), but what most agree are (historically) the best sounding seem to have had this design. If Gibson is using this today, and there is a differnce in bracing between the J100 and J200, maybe this is it. How about you J200 owners: what kind of brace is above the soundhole, and what year is your guitar? J100 owners, we NEED to know the same. Red 333
Wayne Posted November 22, 2008 Posted November 22, 2008 Look through the soundhole in the direction of the neck: is the brace you see a horizontal one' date=' or is it another X brace? [/quote'] That much i can tell even with the strings on. Its a horizontal brace. I cant see the details below the soundhole, except its obviously an X of some flavor.
CAMELEYE Posted November 22, 2008 Posted November 22, 2008 re.Bubinga: I have a newer L-00 in this wood and having had both the deep body and regular depth bodied L-00s (not vintage ones), I would venture to say I like this version best. It's definitely loudest, with a slightly more pronounced trebles and mids. Punchy but not deep bottom. Kinda reverby tone overall. Good balance for fingerpicking. Oh yes, and very heavy for such a small guitar. Ce
Wayne Posted November 22, 2008 Posted November 22, 2008 A Dry Thump, huh. Thats a new one for me and I'm not sure its a complement.
ksdaddy Posted November 22, 2008 Posted November 22, 2008 The double x bracing came into production in 1971 and is considered to be one of the worst designs in Gibson history. I don't know when they finally gave it up but I'm thinking around 1983.
Red 333 Posted November 22, 2008 Posted November 22, 2008 The double x bracing came into production in 1971 and is considered to be one of the worst designs in Gibson history. I don't know when they finally gave it up but I'm thinking around 1983. I'm not talking about the double X below the soundhole; that is indeed one of the worst tone robbers ever. I'm talking about two seprate X braces, one in the upper bought, one in the lower. This design was was found in some of the very first J200's, then changed to a horizontal brace in the upper bought in 1942, then reintroduced in 1952, only to be changed again for suspended bracing in the mid 60s, which was then changed to the dreaded double X you are thinking of during the Norlin years. When Gibson later began making the J200 in the new factory in Nashville in the mid 70s, they changed back to a horizontal brace in the upper bought, and the single X in the lower. I'm curious what Gibson has been using since building the J200 in Montana, given the many differences over the years, and also how that system varies from the J100 from year to year, too. Red 333
fortyearspickn Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 Hey, Texas Red, I've got a straight SJ200 - 2004 model. It has horizontal bracing in the smaller bout and X in the lower. Sound is great. Trebles, bass - balanced. Light strings have plenty of punch - strumming, flat picking or fingerpicking. Of course, a different sound than a square shoulder hog - but the maple sounds better to my ears. However, I am no connoisiour.
jeff5341 Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 I had wanted a J200 but couldn't really afford one but I did find an 04 J100Xtra with flamed maple back, and 5 piece flame maple neck that I could afford. I sometimes play with a friend that has an 02 J200, I have looked in the soundhole and the bracing looks the same to me, from what you can see at a glance. The feel is the same on both guitars and if anything my J100 is the better sounding of the two, not just me we both think that. His J200 is definitely fancier but, mine had an original J200 pickguard installed before I bought it and of course it has the 200 type fretboard markers, so from a glance it is hard to tell the difference. Of course when you really look you see the neck binding on his, the top and back purfling, the fretboard markers are real pearl not pearloid whatever that is and, his bridge has pearl. Bottom line, at least in our case, they appear to be the same guitar with different trim levels. We both bought the guitars used and for $1,200 less I assure you I got the better deal.
jefleppard Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 as a form of cruelty, this was pointed out to me! wow. i want it. but is this a good deal and was 93 a good vintage for bo'Z (bozeman - sorry,trying to be hip). http://www.elderly.com/vintage/names/gibson-j-100-xtra-%281993%29--20U-12044.htm
Jayla Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 as a form of cruelty' date=' this was pointed out to me! wow. i want it. but is this a good deal and was 93 a good vintage for bo'Z (bozeman - sorry,trying to be hip).http://www.elderly.com/vintage/names/gibson-j-100-xtra-%281993%29--20U-12044.htm[/quote'] For not that much more you can get a new one, with bubinga back and sides. FWIW I've heard both good and bad about the hog models, but only good about the bubinga ones. Personally, I'd want to play it before deciding, if possible. If not, I'd at least get out and try a current bubinga model and see what I felt about that.
Rich Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 Regarding bracing, I have a 2005 SJ-200 Historic Collection, this one, (http://www.mandoweb.com/78-7630.jpg) which has scalloped bracing on the sides and bottom of the soundhole which looks like pyramids. There is also a non-scalloped horizontal brace above the soundhole.
jefleppard Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 For not that much more you can get a new one' date=' with bubinga back and sides. FWIW I've heard both good and bad about the hog models, but only good about the bubinga ones. Personally, I'd want to play it before deciding, if possible. If not, I'd at least get out and try a current bubinga model and see what I felt about that.[/quote'] agreed. i always let that important caveat slip to the back of the bus. i should never buy b4 playing but dont they just all look so delicious!?!? the harmony central reviews of the bubinga are stellar - mostly 10's across the board. how could you go wrong? but i'd like the vb. the plain is just too plain for me. i know its just looks, but i'm not blind yet. i just wear glasses.....
Wayne Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 Regarding bracing' date=' I have a 2005 SJ-200 Historic Collection, this one, (http://www.mandoweb.com/78-7630.jpg) which has scalloped bracing on the sides and bottom of the soundhole which looks like pyramids. There is also a non-scalloped horizontal brace above the soundhole.[/quote'] My 2002 J-100 Xtra is identical in everything you describe. The dang thing sounds so good I'm reluctant to change the strings and really get a look inside the lower bout.
jefleppard Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 My 2002 J-100 Xtra is identical in everything you describe. The dang thing sounds so good I'm reluctant to change the strings and really get a look inside the lower bout. can you post some pics?
Wayne Posted November 23, 2008 Posted November 23, 2008 Not any time soon, but I found this: http://www.guitarjtb.com/oldtop.html There you will find a 1970's double-x design (which is I presume the dreaded double-x), which shows both x's in the lower bout, not as someone described above. I always assumed the second x was above the sound hole too, but apparently not. I'm no authority and stand ready to be corrected. On my j-100, The upper 'V' of the large x, the horizontal/lateral brace above the soundhole, and the 3 short scalloped braces (one on each side and one very short one below soundhole) are pretty much as shown in that same photo, although the scalloped braces are missing you can see where they go. Basically everything north of the X is ideintical or very similar to that photo. I wont be able to see anything below the upper x arms till I take strings off.
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