Open Mic (love it or hate it)

[Sgt.]

Notes says it.

 

I might add as well, in this area, local music has suffered as a result. Specifically, the bands that play "for free" usually suck big time. And the venues suck as well. You can tell the difference when a new owner takes over and the place goes downhill fast with these "free bands".

 

I know rents are up, yada yada, but the equation is roughly the same: live music packs them in. The WAY it packs them in is poeple looking to go out and have a good time will usually recognize the band and decide THAT's a good place to step in and stay awhile. That's where you get the crowd, those "extra" poeple and drinks sold.

 

For the first timer not used to seeing live music, they are usually pleasantly surprised, and will revisit the venue. For those used to seeing bands they recognize and they see a "new" name they haven't seen before, they might check it out on the chance they are going to discover a good band they weren't aware of.

 

Whether you are the venue or the band, if you are the one playing for free, you aren't doing ANYONE any favors. If you're the band, and you can't get paid, there might be a reason for it. When you play your show and patrons come in on that particular night and see a band that sucks, it hurts the venue. You aren't actually getting any good exposure, because if you aren't up to the quality of what is usually played, poeple coming into the place usually don't want to see you again when they can see someone else. Patrons used to good music at the venue will find the bands that used to play there at other places, and won't be back to you're joint after seeing bands that suck a couple times.

 

I don't mean to sound snobby or put anyone down, I'm just relating real life here. There IS a difference between good bands and sucky bands. More often than not, it has to do with effort and getting paid.

 

yeah. sounds overly optimistic where the end result is the fat cat venue wins this game. yeah there are a lot of 'suck' bands whose noise is mediocre at best and it always seems they shouldn't be the one's getting paid. who wants to pay to see a mediocre band? meh. What happens at the end of one of these 'open mics' where you've done the leg work, coming every week with your equipment and putting up with sucks? It can't be democratic because frankly some people suck and can't fit in with the band. Who's getting rich when you bring people in to buy booze at the venue where you play good for free because it's called 'open'. Not you chum. YOU can expect gratuitous gestures at best. As far as advancement where can you expect to go through an 'open mic'? There's no rewards, you might not even be asked to host. People don't go on from 'open mic' to become millionaire rock stars. They go back to the gutter that they crawled out from. The whole concept grates at my conscious. The host is charged with trying to lure more people to drink more beer and listen to crap music so the bar makes enough to cover a percentage. It just seems wrong.

All my open mic friends became critics (thank you FACEBOOK). they don't come to my shows (whether they think they're better than me, i don't know) and are just interested in taking over my position when they do. I'll never understand the karaoke phenomenon where the host sounds bad enough to hurt your ears and so do the other participants, yet the tables are always full! Come Saturday a band that sounds reasonable and enjoys entertaining might only draw a crowd that sticks to the bar. On the flipside, I don't like entertaining in a restaurant where people are feeding their faces, I'd prefer the afterhours bar crowd and rock n' roll.

You run into all kinds of obstacles when you try coordinating an 'open mic' effort. There's territories of other 'open mic' hosts who won't cooperate with you and your efforts which just doesn't move things forward. Credibility from one bar to the next in terms of qualifications is shoddy and incoherent. You could be paid at one bar and leave because you feel it's not enough and go to find other opportunities and find the next bar owner wouldn't even consider paying you to mop the puke off the steps. The business side is not about music, it's about putting more money in the bar owner's pocket by pawning more booze off on people that don't need it. I've come to the realization that nothing a bar/restaurant offers is ever necessary to my existence. Be sure you can walk away from this lifestyle because it's a terrible spiral down through booze and then drugs and debt and bad sex ... and ... remember the maxim of the musician 'KEEP YOUR DAY JOB' because music in it's present state likely won't pay your rent!

[Strav]

Good times.

[Sgt.]

yeah. sounds overly optimistic where the end result is the fat cat venue wins this game. yeah there are a lot of 'suck' bands whose noise is mediocre at best and it always seems they shouldn't be the one's getting paid. who wants to pay to see a mediocre band? meh. What happens at the end of one of these 'open mics' where you've done the leg work, coming every week with your equipment and putting up with sucks? It can't be democratic because frankly some people suck and can't fit in with the band. Who's getting rich when you bring people in to buy booze at the venue where you play good for free because it's called 'open'. Not you chum. YOU can expect gratuitous gestures at best. As far as advancement where can you expect to go through an 'open mic'? There's no rewards, you might not even be asked to host. People don't go on from 'open mic' to become millionaire rock stars. They go back to the gutter that they crawled out from. The whole concept grates at my conscious. The host is charged with trying to lure more people to drink more beer and listen to crap music so the bar makes enough to cover a percentage. It just seems wrong.

All my open mic friends became critics (thank you FACEBOOK). they don't come to my shows (whether they think they're better than me, i don't know) and are just interested in taking over my position when they do. I'll never understand the karaoke phenomenon where the host sounds bad enough to hurt your ears and so do the other participants, yet the tables are always full! Come Saturday a band that sounds reasonable and enjoys entertaining might only draw a crowd that sticks to the bar. On the flipside, I don't like entertaining in a restaurant where people are feeding their faces, I'd prefer the afterhours bar crowd and rock n' roll.

You run into all kinds of obstacles when you try coordinating an 'open mic' effort. There's territories of other 'open mic' hosts who won't cooperate with you and your efforts which just doesn't move things forward. Credibility from one bar to the next in terms of qualifications is shoddy and incoherent. You could be paid at one bar and leave because you feel it's not enough and go to find other opportunities and find the next bar owner wouldn't even consider paying you to mop the puke off the steps. The business side is not about music, it's about putting more money in the bar owner's pocket by pawning more booze off on people that don't need it. I've come to the realization that nothing a bar/restaurant offers is ever necessary to my existence. Be sure you can walk away from this lifestyle because it's a terrible spiral down through booze and then drugs and debt and bad sex ... and ... remember the maxim of the musician 'KEEP YOUR DAY JOB' because music in it's present state likely won't pay your rent!

 

I've been following the 'open mic's' in my city for a dozen years or so, and mostly use the opportunity to get to know people, network, facebook, whatever. While an overwhelming majority of hosts or venues are hassle free there's always the one guy who thinks he can start taking advantage of others because it's free. The guy who legitimate songwriters warn you about who lurks in bars waiting to take advantage of naive people that have a song or two they want to sing. The guy that tries to push rules on people. One of my open mic horror stories was a guy who had his uncle snapping pictures of people and sticking a vid. cam in their faces who asked me to leave because he didn't like my 'stage etiquette'. Please. That said the opportunities created by 'open mic' are small at best and for the most part I've sunk too much money into pints at the pub with no reward. Come on, get with a plan and move your music forward. Now the odd spillover is street cred. People get to know you and some things get to be 'free' sometimes, pints, coffee, v.i.p seating. :) I really hate the open mic host who thinks that I enjoy draining my wallet at their bar without any consideration of a job there.

Without beer 'open mic' would bore the skull off most people.

[Notes_Norton]

Obviously I feel very strongly about this.

 

Playing for exposure is not where it's at. As long as you support play for free places by donating your services, you are supporting exploitation. Exposure is just a rationalization for being exploited and for taking the food out of a professional musician.

 

There are 3 new restaurants downtown that are hosting free entertainment 4 nights a week each. And there are enough suckers willing to be exploited. The restaurant is making money and the musician(s) is(are) getting exposure exploited.

 

There are not 3 restaurants downtown with 4 nights of paid entertainment. Why pay when you can get it for free? Outsource the work to the willing to be exploited.

 

So you are making it difficult for others to make a living. Where do these exploited musicians expect to get work after they get their exposure? Do you think the open mic place is going to hire you? There will be more suckers waiting to be exploited as soon as you ask for anything more than a free dinner (which costs the restaurant zero for all practical purposes) or a free drink (which costs the bar pennies).

 

The more places there are that can exist by supplying free entertainment, the fewer place there are for professional musicians to work. Would you like it if someone came to your place of business and offered to do your job for free? Do unto others.

 

Perhaps we should have a open gas (petrol) station night for exposure at the local gas station. Come fill up your tanks for free and the gas station will get exposure.

 

Or open lawn service Sunday. OK all you lawn service people out there, come and mow my lawn for free, I'll invite the neighbors to watch and you'll get exposure.

 

Or a free day at the doctors or lawyers so they get get exposure? Write free articles for the local newspaper or a magazine for exposure?

 

Perhaps someone sitting in at your day job for free while you get the day off without pay, so they can get exposure? It's really the same thing, isn't it?

 

Why is it that musicians are expected to work for free when the cook, waiter/watresses, bartenders/barmaids, dishwashers, managers, and owners are making a living at this?

If you want to play for free, do it in a non-commercial venue.

 

Here is what I do, I volunteer to play for disabled veterans at the VA hospital, I volunteer to play for charity events if I believe in the charity and the organization that is sponsoring it, and I will show up at a jam session under two conditions (1) I know the core band is getting paid a fair wage and (2) I am a friend of one of the members in the core band and therefore am helping him/her make a living.

 

You can also hold jam sessions in people's homes and send out invitations (house concerts), in public parks (if allowed) and many other non-profit venues.

 

But if you are giving away your services at a commercial establishment, playing for free so the owners can make a profit, you are not getting exposure, you are getting exploited. And you are taking the food out of the mouth of a local musician. This is worse than recording piracy. If you rip off a Lady Gaga tune, she still eats, if you rip off the local musician, he/she has a hard time feeding his/her family.

[ChanMan]

 

So you get a chance to open for the Rolling Stones on live national television, but it pays nothing. You say you have to turn it down... and the resultant cash made from the bookings you'll get from that "free" performance.... because it's taking food from the mouths of musicians who will only play for pay....

 

Interesting.

 

 

 

 

 

[Rabs]

Obviously I feel very strongly about this.

 

Playing for exposure is not where it's at. As long as you support play for free places by donating your services, you are supporting exploitation. Exposure is just a rationalization for being exploited and for taking the food out of a professional musician.

 

There are 3 new restaurants downtown that are hosting free entertainment 4 nights a week each. And there are enough suckers willing to be exploited. The restaurant is making money and the musician(s) is(are) getting exposure exploited.

 

There are not 3 restaurants downtown with 4 nights of paid entertainment. Why pay when you can get it for free? Outsource the work to the willing to be exploited.

 

So you are making it difficult for others to make a living. Where do these exploited musicians expect to get work after they get their exposure? Do you think the open mic place is going to hire you? There will be more suckers waiting to be exploited as soon as you ask for anything more than a free dinner (which costs the restaurant zero for all practical purposes) or a free drink (which costs the bar pennies).

 

The more places there are that can exist by supplying free entertainment, the fewer place there are for professional musicians to work. Would you like it if someone came to your place of business and offered to do your job for free? Do unto others.

 

Perhaps we should have a open gas (petrol) station night for exposure at the local gas station. Come fill up your tanks for free and the gas station will get exposure.

 

Or open lawn service Sunday. OK all you lawn service people out there, come and mow my lawn for free, I'll invite the neighbors to watch and you'll get exposure.

 

Or a free day at the doctors or lawyers so they get get exposure? Write free articles for the local newspaper or a magazine for exposure?

 

Perhaps someone sitting in at your day job for free while you get the day off without pay, so they can get exposure? It's really the same thing, isn't it?

 

Why is it that musicians are expected to work for free when the cook, waiter/watresses, bartenders/barmaids, dishwashers, managers, and owners are making a living at this?

If you want to play for free, do it in a non-commercial venue.

 

Here is what I do, I volunteer to play for disabled veterans at the VA hospital, I volunteer to play for charity events if I believe in the charity and the organization that is sponsoring it, and I will show up at a jam session under two conditions (1) I know the core band is getting paid a fair wage and (2) I am a friend of one of the members in the core band and therefore am helping him/her make a living.

 

You can also hold jam sessions in people's homes and send out invitations (house concerts), in public parks (if allowed) and many other non-profit venues.

 

But if you are giving away your services at a commercial establishment, playing for free so the owners can make a profit, you are not getting exposure, you are getting exploited. And you are taking the food out of the mouth of a local musician. This is worse than recording piracy. If you rip off a Lady Gaga tune, she still eats, if you rip off the local musician, he/she has a hard time feeding his/her family.

I can agree with you about whole bands playing at restaurants for free.. or big commercial places. But there are differnt levels.

 

BUT I think what we are really talking about with a lot open mic nights is individual people going to a small pub where someone has organised an open mic night just so they can get to perform in public and meet like minded people. In fact the last one I went too the guy who organised it also went out and got pizzas for everyone there out of his own money just so everyone enjoys it.. Is that really such a bad thing?? Alot of us dont have the time to be in a band, does that mean we should never be allowed to have a chance to play in public??

 

Most small gigs pay so little that you may as well not get paid anyway.. I know a guy who went on tour with a band recently (just a small UK tour) and he got nothing out of it but the experience of playing with the band and maybe meeting some contacts. And whenI say nothing, they did get paid for a percentage of the door takings but when theres four bands on in that one night and 10-20 people show up (if your lucky) its not going to be much is it? I think if open mic nights exsisted or not that would still be the case as theres more people who want to play music for a lving than there are venues to play at.

 

Your post seems to come from a view point of us living in a perfect world where everything happens as it should. But musicians have always been underpaid but do it as that is what they want to do in life. So I think if you want to be any kind of artist you need to realise its going to be hard to get recognition and that the people that make it are usually just in the right place at the right time. Thats just the nature of that business. Also people have to learn their craft somewhere. To be really good on stage you need expreience, to get experience you need to do some free stuff before someone is willing to pay you for it and I think an open mic night is a good middle ground.

 

But then you get what you pay for? If a band is that good and in demand they get paid more. Your example of saying would you let someone come and do your job for free is not valid.. Would an employer ideally like free workers, probably, but they dont do that as you need experience to work in most jobs, thats why you get paid. Get some random person to do it for free and then you make more mistakes that you have to pay for than it would cost you to hire someone to do a good job..

 

Would every venue like massive world famous bands to play there, sure they would but they cant afford it. So maybe famous bands just get paid too much and leave nothing for the rest of us? How many people would like to drive an F1 car or a jet plane for nothing but just for the experience? But thats not gonna happen is it unless you pay for it. Maybe you think that a person whos not a gigging musician should pay for the experience of playing live on stage? (like they do to drive a sports car). But then who gets to make the decision on if they think your actually good enough or worth enough to play on a stage?

 

Im not trying to argue but your post seemed to focus on one extreme end and im just looking at the other side of things.. Neither is wrong or right as such.. Its just the way things are. If you dont like it go do something else your happier with where the rules are more fair? or aim your focus on the venues or the music business? all your doing is blaming people for wanting to have a live playing experience, if there were no venues offering the chance people couldnt do it... I dont think people playing for the love of music is a bad thing.

[Rabs]

So you get a chance to open for the Rolling Stones on live national television, but it pays nothing. You say you have to turn it down... and the resultant cash made from the bookings you'll get from that "free" performance.... because it's taking food from the mouths of musicians who will only play for pay....

 

Interesting.

Exactly.. how many of us would turn down the chance of opening up for one of your heroes for free? and to say you would get no exposure is silly.

 

Or say someone who saw you at an open mic night happened to run a prime time TV show and wanted you to play for one show but couldnt pay.. how many people would turn that offer down? And why would you do it.. only in the hopes that it leads somewhere else which really until you have released a record or got a record deal or something is the only and best way..

[pippy]

...Do you think the open mic place is going to hire you?...

I have to say the very first time I played at our local 'Open-Mic' night there was a great singer/songwriter/guitarist who performed a couple of his own compositions of his own and then a couple of 'standards' with the house band.

 

After everyone had finished playing for the evening he sat with us at our table and the organiser - who puts on lots of paaid gigs at various local venues - approached him about booking him for a solo gig the next week.

 

P.

[stein]

The Stones aren't going to ask someone to play for free...not reality. But the idea that IF they would and a guy should take it, that's my MAIN point. If your band isn't ready, you aren't doing yourself a favor because you open for the Stones. What would happen is an audience expecting a better band would be disappointed, and you wouldn't come off with a better rep, it would be worse.

 

Back to reality, this happens. When you are asked to play a place for free, you should seriously question it. Why are they not willing to pay you? IS it just you, or do they not pay any band?

 

If you are a gigging band or are out there trying to gig, you WILL come across these issues. You will be asked to play for free at some point. If you take these gigs, you might be hurting your band or your reputation short term and longer term.

 

Every town has a "scene" or something of a circuit. Bands talk, and so do musicians. Word gets around, and quickly. Lots of gigs happen based on recommendation, and reputation. If you are THAT guy who plays the gig for free replacing a paid band, your name becomes mud. You end up pissing off the other musicians. It's a good idea to know your scene, know your place.

 

If you take a gig or two as a non-paying band in a club or curciut that normally has good, PAID bands, chances are the usual bands are going to be more refined and put a better show, and the other bands and patrons are going to find out you aren't being paid. Those two things will put you at the bottom of the list, and no one will then recommend you. You just given them a reason to NOT like you, and your show likely backed that reason. You just shut your own door to playing better gigs with better and PAYING audiences.

[stein]

I think we are all talking about a large variety of "open mic" scenarios and gigs.

 

I LOVE open 'JAMS', as they would be usually called around here. I don't get paid, nor do I deserve to, because 1) I don't have to show up on time, or at all. I don't even have to play. 2) I can leave whenever I want. See, no responsibility.

 

But 'jams' I do go to, or WANT to go to, have quality music, and it isn't all about getting to play or not play, it's about what I HEAR and see there at least as much. If the music sucks, or the musicians aren't that good, it's no fun. And, it isn't really about who is better or worse, it's about playing a good tune, or playing good MUSIC.

 

This is where the host come into play. Keeping the music GOOD, depends largely on who plays with who, and what kind of job they do. If the music is going to be good, the host can't just pick 4 or 5 guys for a set and forget about it, he has to be selective. And, the guys who play the set have to do a good job for the time they are up there. When this happens, you get a variety of really cool things. You get guys that are really good who want to play with so-and-so, and guys who want to be a part of it. You also get musicians that are just starting out who need the experience, and when a guy does a good job beyond his experience or skill level because of the other musicians he is playing with, a sort of magic can happen. It's really cool to see.

 

But, it does come down to the host and participants. IF the "jam night" is full of good music, poeple come to see, and it IS work for the host. And, a good host gets paid. And the networking that happens at a GOOD place with good music is good networking.

[Sgt.]

So you get a chance to open for the Rolling Stones on live national television, but it pays nothing. You say you have to turn it down... and the resultant cash made from the bookings you'll get from that "free" performance.... because it's taking food from the mouths of musicians who will only play for pay....

 

Interesting.

 

rephrase that 'so you get a chance to win the lottery by buying a ticket' and ... good luck! the lottery generates more losers than any other contest i know. who said anything about the precious stones?

[Sgt.]

Obviously I feel very strongly about this.

 

Playing for exposure is not where it's at. As long as you support play for free places by donating your services, you are supporting exploitation. Exposure is just a rationalization for being exploited and for taking the food out of a professional musician.

 

There are 3 new restaurants downtown that are hosting free entertainment 4 nights a week each. And there are enough suckers willing to be exploited. The restaurant is making money and the musician(s) is(are) getting exposure exploited.

 

There are not 3 restaurants downtown with 4 nights of paid entertainment. Why pay when you can get it for free? Outsource the work to the willing to be exploited.

 

So you are making it difficult for others to make a living. Where do these exploited musicians expect to get work after they get their exposure? Do you think the open mic place is going to hire you? There will be more suckers waiting to be exploited as soon as you ask for anything more than a free dinner (which costs the restaurant zero for all practical purposes) or a free drink (which costs the bar pennies).

 

The more places there are that can exist by supplying free entertainment, the fewer place there are for professional musicians to work. Would you like it if someone came to your place of business and offered to do your job for free? Do unto others.

 

Perhaps we should have a open gas (petrol) station night for exposure at the local gas station. Come fill up your tanks for free and the gas station will get exposure.

 

Or open lawn service Sunday. OK all you lawn service people out there, come and mow my lawn for free, I'll invite the neighbors to watch and you'll get exposure.

 

Or a free day at the doctors or lawyers so they get get exposure? Write free articles for the local newspaper or a magazine for exposure?

 

Perhaps someone sitting in at your day job for free while you get the day off without pay, so they can get exposure? It's really the same thing, isn't it?

 

Why is it that musicians are expected to work for free when the cook, waiter/watresses, bartenders/barmaids, dishwashers, managers, and owners are making a living at this?

If you want to play for free, do it in a non-commercial venue.

 

Here is what I do, I volunteer to play for disabled veterans at the VA hospital, I volunteer to play for charity events if I believe in the charity and the organization that is sponsoring it, and I will show up at a jam session under two conditions (1) I know the core band is getting paid a fair wage and (2) I am a friend of one of the members in the core band and therefore am helping him/her make a living.

 

You can also hold jam sessions in people's homes and send out invitations (house concerts), in public parks (if allowed) and many other non-profit venues.

 

But if you are giving away your services at a commercial establishment, playing for free so the owners can make a profit, you are not getting exposure, you are getting exploited. And you are taking the food out of the mouth of a local musician. This is worse than recording piracy. If you rip off a Lady Gaga tune, she still eats, if you rip off the local musician, he/she has a hard time feeding his/her family.

 

yeah, nice rebuttal

[Sgt.]

So you get a chance to open for the Rolling Stones on live national television, but it pays nothing. You say you have to turn it down... and the resultant cash made from the bookings you'll get from that "free" performance.... because it's taking food from the mouths of musicians who will only play for pay....

 

Interesting.

 

"it's taking food from the mouths of musicians" I've seen that a few times repeated. A lot of musicians are content to sit around and get fat!

[Sgt.]

I can agree with you about whole bands playing at restaurants for free.. or big commercial places. But there are differnt levels.

 

BUT I think what we are really talking about with a lot open mic nights is individual people going to a small pub where someone has organised an open mic night just so they can get to perform in public and meet like minded people. In fact the last one I went too the guy who organised it also went out and got pizzas for everyone there out of his own money just so everyone enjoys it.. Is that really such a bad thing?? Alot of us dont have the time to be in a band, does that mean we should never be allowed to have a chance to play in public??

 

Most small gigs pay so little that you may as well not get paid anyway.. I know a guy who went on tour with a band recently (just a small UK tour) and he got nothing out of it but the experience of playing with the band and maybe meeting some contacts. And whenI say nothing, they did get paid for a percentage of the door takings but when theres four bands on in that one night and 10-20 people show up (if your lucky) its not going to be much is it? I think if open mic nights exsisted or not that would still be the case as theres more people who want to play music for a lving than there are venues to play at.

 

Your post seems to come from a view point of us living in a perfect world where everything happens as it should. But musicians have always been underpaid but do it as that is what they want to do in life. So I think if you want to be any kind of artist you need to realise its going to be hard to get recognition and that the people that make it are usually just in the right place at the right time. Thats just the nature of that business. Also people have to learn their craft somewhere. To be really good on stage you need expreience, to get experience you need to do some free stuff before someone is willing to pay you for it and I think an open mic night is a good middle ground.

 

But then you get what you pay for? If a band is that good and in demand they get paid more. Your example of saying would you let someone come and do your job for free is not valid.. Would an employer ideally like free workers, probably, but they dont do that as you need experience to work in most jobs, thats why you get paid. Get some random person to do it for free and then you make more mistakes that you have to pay for than it would cost you to hire someone to do a good job..

 

Would every venue like massive world famous bands to play there, sure they would but they cant afford it. So maybe famous bands just get paid too much and leave nothing for the rest of us? How many people would like to drive an F1 car or a jet plane for nothing but just for the experience? But thats not gonna happen is it unless you pay for it. Maybe you think that a person whos not a gigging musician should pay for the experience of playing live on stage? (like they do to drive a sports car). But then who gets to make the decision on if they think your actually good enough or worth enough to play on a stage?

 

Im not trying to argue but your post seemed to focus on one extreme end and im just looking at the other side of things.. Neither is wrong or right as such.. Its just the way things are. If you dont like it go do something else your happier with where the rules are more fair? or aim your focus on the venues or the music business? all your doing is blaming people for wanting to have a live playing experience, if there were no venues offering the chance people couldnt do it... I dont think people playing for the love of music is a bad thing.

 

yeah, so the whole live entertainment industry is crooked and nobody can change it. I've made more money in an afternoon busking than some of my band gigs! Grassroots, taking it to the people, you have control, a chance to 'play in public' but it's not a glamorous existence.

[Sgt.]

I can agree with you about whole bands playing at restaurants for free.. or big commercial places. But there are differnt levels.

 

BUT I think what we are really talking about with a lot open mic nights is individual people going to a small pub where someone has organised an open mic night just so they can get to perform in public and meet like minded people. In fact the last one I went too the guy who organised it also went out and got pizzas for everyone there out of his own money just so everyone enjoys it.. Is that really such a bad thing?? Alot of us dont have the time to be in a band, does that mean we should never be allowed to have a chance to play in public??

 

Most small gigs pay so little that you may as well not get paid anyway.. I know a guy who went on tour with a band recently (just a small UK tour) and he got nothing out of it but the experience of playing with the band and maybe meeting some contacts. And whenI say nothing, they did get paid for a percentage of the door takings but when theres four bands on in that one night and 10-20 people show up (if your lucky) its not going to be much is it? I think if open mic nights exsisted or not that would still be the case as theres more people who want to play music for a lving than there are venues to play at.

 

Your post seems to come from a view point of us living in a perfect world where everything happens as it should. But musicians have always been underpaid but do it as that is what they want to do in life. So I think if you want to be any kind of artist you need to realise its going to be hard to get recognition and that the people that make it are usually just in the right place at the right time. Thats just the nature of that business. Also people have to learn their craft somewhere. To be really good on stage you need expreience, to get experience you need to do some free stuff before someone is willing to pay you for it and I think an open mic night is a good middle ground.

 

But then you get what you pay for? If a band is that good and in demand they get paid more. Your example of saying would you let someone come and do your job for free is not valid.. Would an employer ideally like free workers, probably, but they dont do that as you need experience to work in most jobs, thats why you get paid. Get some random person to do it for free and then you make more mistakes that you have to pay for than it would cost you to hire someone to do a good job..

 

Would every venue like massive world famous bands to play there, sure they would but they cant afford it. So maybe famous bands just get paid too much and leave nothing for the rest of us? How many people would like to drive an F1 car or a jet plane for nothing but just for the experience? But thats not gonna happen is it unless you pay for it. Maybe you think that a person whos not a gigging musician should pay for the experience of playing live on stage? (like they do to drive a sports car). But then who gets to make the decision on if they think your actually good enough or worth enough to play on a stage?

 

Im not trying to argue but your post seemed to focus on one extreme end and im just looking at the other side of things.. Neither is wrong or right as such.. Its just the way things are. If you dont like it go do something else your happier with where the rules are more fair? or aim your focus on the venues or the music business? all your doing is blaming people for wanting to have a live playing experience, if there were no venues offering the chance people couldnt do it... I dont think people playing for the love of music is a bad thing.

 

yeah, healthy debate. there are people on both ends of that argument.

[Sgt.]

Exactly.. how many of us would turn down the chance of opening up for one of your heroes for free? and to say you would get no exposure is silly.

 

Or say someone who saw you at an open mic night happened to run a prime time TV show and wanted you to play for one show but couldnt pay.. how many people would turn that offer down? And why would you do it.. only in the hopes that it leads somewhere else which really until you have released a record or got a record deal or something is the only and best way..

 

yeah, but don't cha' think that someone who's got like eight indy cds out to push and no hits should just give it a rest! lol

[Rabs]

yeah, so the whole live entertainment industry is crooked and nobody can change it. I've made more money in an afternoon busking than some of my band gigs! Grassroots, taking it to the people, you have control, a chance to 'play in public' but it's not a glamorous existence.

Well the thing is that it has changed a bit.. Things like MP3s,Youtube, Facebook and the like have given way more power to the people. If you are clever enough and unique enough you can really use these tools to make it big. Even big established bands and artists are now using these tools as they are so powerful.

 

You just need one to go viral and there you go, you have peoples attention. You still have to be good and clever enough to make it work though.

 

The Record companies and all of the fat cats involved are still trying to fight it, but I think their day is over and hopefully it will eventually lead to things getting better... Who knows.. Im sure right now they are just figuring out other ways of ripping us off :}

[Rabs]

yeah, but don't cha' think that someone who's got eight indy cds out to push and no hits should just give it a rest! lol

Possibly.. lol its up to them..

 

I have a VERY good friend of mine who was the drummer in my first proper long standing band.. (that was many years ago)..

 

Since then he speant ten years or so at Uni studying music, being in several different bands including one of his own. Hes the best drummer I know and can also play guitar, bass and keyboard/piano at grade 8 level..

 

Right now hes still playing for a band that hes doing just to keep busy and try and make new contacts etc.. But he still works on his own stuff and thats all he does.. Sometimes I feel really sorry for him cos I know how hard hes trying, and this guy is super talented. But who am I to say, dude give it up.. Its what he lives for and what he wants to do how ever hard it is.

 

It is kinda sad the amount of watsed talent out there.. But the music industry is one of the toughest things to do in the world and make it.. Its always been that way, probably always will.. Even Hendrix had to leave the US to make it big.. It depends on how much you want it and what your prepared to do....

 

So as I said.. As an artist of any kind, you have to accept that its gonna be hard and you may never even make it if your not in the right place at the right time.. If you dont like that way of life, dont try and be a musician lol :)

[Sgt.]

I think we are all talking about a large variety of "open mic" scenarios and gigs.

 

I LOVE open 'JAMS', as they would be usually called around here. I don't get paid, nor do I deserve to, because 1) I don't have to show up on time, or at all. I don't even have to play. 2) I can leave whenever I want. See, no responsibility.

 

But 'jams' I do go to, or WANT to go to, have quality music, and it isn't all about getting to play or not play, it's about what I HEAR and see there at least as much. If the music sucks, or the musicians aren't that good, it's no fun. And, it isn't really about who is better or worse, it's about playing a good tune, or playing good MUSIC.

 

This is where the host come into play. Keeping the music GOOD, depends largely on who plays with who, and what kind of job they do. If the music is going to be good, the host can't just pick 4 or 5 guys for a set and forget about it, he has to be selective. And, the guys who play the set have to do a good job for the time they are up there. When this happens, you get a variety of really cool things. You get guys that are really good who want to play with so-and-so, and guys who want to be a part of it. You also get musicians that are just starting out who need the experience, and when a guy does a good job beyond his experience or skill level because of the other musicians he is playing with, a sort of magic can happen. It's really cool to see.

 

But, it does come down to the host and participants. IF the "jam night" is full of good music, poeple come to see, and it IS work for the host. And, a good host gets paid. And the networking that happens at a GOOD place with good music is good networking.

 

I like the pub atmosphere to audition bandmates. Takes the pressure of being too 'personal' off of me. You can drain the bar's hydro! I get offers all the time to join or jam with bands that just aren't 'out there'. They're jamming in their mother's basement for all i know! I am sure it annoys people when you get cheap about being there and just order water because the open mic cannot possible have anything more to offer you. Everything in moderation. There is no perfect storm.

[Sgt.]

Possibly.. lol its up to them..

 

I have a VERY good friend of mine who was the drummer in my first proper long standing band.. (that was many years ago)..

 

Since then he speant ten years or so at Uni studying music, being in several different bands including one of his own. Hes the best drummer I know and can also play guitar, bass and keyboard/piano at grade 8 level..

 

Right now hes still playing for a band that hes doing just to keep busy and try and make new contacts etc.. But he still works on his own stuff and thats all he does.. Sometimes I feel really sorry for him cos I know how hard hes trying, and this guy is super talented. But who am I to say, dude give it up.. Its what he lives for and what he wants to do how ever hard it is.

 

It is kinda sad the amount of watsed talent out there.. But the music industry is one of the toughest things to do in the world and make it.. Its always been that way, probably always will.. Even Hendrix had to leave the US to make it big.. It depends on how much you want it and what your prepared to do....

 

So as I said.. As an artist of any kind, you have to accept that its gonna be hard and you may never even make it if your not in the right place at the right time.. If you dont like that way of life, dont try and be a musician lol :)

 

 

Shouldn't we as a whole be thankful to live in this day and age. I mean tax exile!!! Bands left Britain because the government took like ninety five percent of their earnings, and banned rock n' roll music on radio! PIRATE RADIO!!!

[Rabs]

yeah, but don't cha' think that someone who's got like eight indy cds out to push and no hits should just give it a rest! lol

Have you seen the Anvil film... My god... Its the epitome of this sort of story..

 

If you havent seen it I really really suggest it to anyone.. Its sad, angering, funny and crazy all at the same time.. Like Spinal Tap but real life.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF4H8lB2Y_o

[Rabs]

Shouldn't we as a whole be thankful to live in this day and age. I mean tax exile!!! Bands left Britain because the government took like ninety five percent of their earnings, and banned rock n' roll music on radio! PIRATE RADIO!!!

Exactly.. Things arnt great, but used to be worse...

 

Look at all the old blues guys who all died poor and unrecognised in their own time... It happens :blink:

[ChanMan]

rephrase that 'so you get a chance to win the lottery by buying a ticket' and ... good luck! the lottery generates more losers than any other contest i know. who said anything about the precious stones?

 

/chuckle

[MissouriPicker]

I run two open mics each month. Get $25 for each one, plus I keep the tips. One is tomorrow at noon. I get the after-church crowd. I let everyone play/perform/recite so long as they stay within the rules: it must be family-friendly, no politics, no religion bashing, no long rants about anything. Whither it's an open mic or a regular gig, we are there to entertain. We are not there to offend, preach at, or challenge the customers.. How long each person gets to perform depends on how many folks are there to play.........Regarding pay for gigs-------I've played for free where I'm likely to get good tips. Fortunately, most of my gigs now allow me to go home with money in my pocket. I play for fun and for extra money. It would take far too much work if I were supporting myself solely on my gigs. I really sympathize with the full-time musicians whose only income is from their gigs. It's very tough out there and it's not going to get any better. I've seen these letters and notices (similar to what was posted in this thread) going-around and I doubt that business owners really give-a-damn. Most are trying to make a buck and often struggling just like the musicians. Dog-eat-dog. Some are just jerks. Either way, that's just the way things are. It often comes-down to playing for very litte or playing just for tips, or not playing at all. It's not such a critical decision for me, but for a full-time musician it is very critical, perhaps life-changing...............Anyway, as I meander-------open mics are hit and miss. For the most part, they work if you're looking to get some confidence and exposure. Look for something where the host has some control over what's going-on. If the place is out-of-control, then the whole thing can be a negative experience..

[Sgt.]

/chuckle