RichG Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 What is the difference between a J45 Historic Collection and a J45 True Vintage? Thanks Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Essentially a bit of marketing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 The HC would be - or answers - what is now called the Standard - in principle*. The TV has finer details here and there - same goes for the Hummingbirds and J-200's. I can't recall the exact variations, but hopefully someone will chime in. It's not too difficult to find info on this elsewhere in case it doesn't happen. *Then again my friends HC is totally different than my Standard. His being lower speaking, , , in general much more ladylike, if you allow the cliché. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del Nilppeznaf Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Yes, in my understanding.the HC and the TV are two completely different builds. The TV being a much lighter build and usually higher spec's..ie wood and nut / saddle ect. Interestingly though, Gibson's marketing can be a bit unfathomable sometimes, as my HB TV was shipped as an Historic HB VOS and the store had a lot of problems actually trying to order the TV as Gibson keep changing what they call these things !!!! The Historic is a nod to the original's while the TV is an attempt to make an authentic reproduction of the said models, with maybe a couple of modern twists. The Historic will be generally much cheaper than the TV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 The Historic will be generally much cheaper than the TV. Until they bring out the 'original vintage' which will be a closer repro with a 'modern twist' and the cycle will repeat, double vintage, vintage vintage, modern twisted vintage... It's just how the business model works, some manufacturers like the seasonal approach and when doubled with the limited edition method it's purpose is to create sales spikes. Fair play to them, the sell more of a story than a toaster or a microwave, it's all nice & cosy, but we do know that the next iteration will move the TV line in to silver medal place. The one after that will sideline the post TV line etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lefty Guy Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 What is the difference between a J45 Historic Collection and a J45 True Vintage? Thanks Rich My 2005 J-45 is an Historic Collection. It has the small white butter bean tuners & an orange label, but otherwise is pretty much like today's "Standard", i.e. heavier build than the TV, has a pick-up installed & the "modern" Gibson decal on headstock. Also, body binding is white rather than cream & the nut on my HC is 1.6875" rather than today's 1.725". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichG Posted November 17, 2012 Author Share Posted November 17, 2012 Thank you I saw a J45 historic for sale at a price that looked more like a TV. I had a feeling the historic was closer to what I know as the "standard" Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62burst Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 I was hoping some of the forum's more fervent facts-checkers would rattle off the laundry list of differences, but the posts so far have started covering the differences pretty well. Lefty reminded me of how Gibson really tried to capture the vibe of an older guitar with the "yellowed" tuners & binding. The finish was de-glossed (microsanded?) as well. When was the Historic->True Vintage change; 2006/2007? I don't think all TV's were Adirondack-topped initially . The Adi is nice, though. Hand-scalloped bracing + Adi + wood selection + hide glue construction = the cards in your favor for good tone in a recently minted guitar. And don't forget that beautiful case for the TV: it meets or exceeds the quality of the guitar itself (I don't know why Gib doesn't make those available separately, they're really missing an opportunity). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red 333 Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Aside from cosmetic details, here are the important differences "under the hood" between the Modern Classic and True Vintage J-45's: The True Vintage has the Advanced Jumbo's forward shifted, wider angle x bracing; the Historic Collection does not. The True Vintage has lighter back bracing than the Historic Collection. The True Vintage usually has an Adirondack top; the Historic Collection has Sitka spruce. I'm not 100% positive about this one, but I don't believe the Historic Collection's top bracing is glued with hide glue; hide glue is used on the top bracing of True Vintage models. The True Vintage has both bone nut and saddle; the Modern Classic has man-made nut and saddle. As stated above by others above, the Historic Collection designation was mostly dropped when Gibson began efforts to standardize and define designations in both the acoustic and electric lines, mostly as Standard, Pro, and Custom. Here is Gibson's own 2007 explanation of the differences (in general--some of the features described, like covered fret ends, don't apply to the J-45): While every discerning guitarist appreciates the glories of hand-selected solid woods and the superlative tone that the master luthier’s craft can yield, many players today also require modifications to the traditional template—cutaways for upper-fret access, onboard electronics, modified neck profiles, and setups for the ultimate playability demanded of many crossover styles—all features that enable a professional performance tool to go straight to the stage or studio. Enter Gibson’s Modern Classics, a collection of Super Jumbos, Jumbos, Round and Square Shoulder Dreadnoughts, and original Small Body guitars. All are fully steeped in Gibson tradition and rendered with Bozeman craftsmanship, but hotrodded with cutting-edge features for 21st century performance needs. “The Modern Classics are designed for the contemporary player, and particularly for crossover players who go between fingerstyle and pick,” says Mike Voltz, Production Manager of Gibson’s acoustic division. “Every model in the line includes the finest electronics available, and we are convinced these are also the most playable acoustic guitars available today.” All Modern Classics feature: • A new fingerboard edge, rolled over to the Bozeman workshop’s unique “Big Sky” radius for ultimate comfort • The industry’s lowest action and finest playability • Grover Rotomatic tuners • The industry’s finest electronics, each selected as most appropriate to the model • Bone nut and Tusq saddle • Premium hardshell case Of course, build a guitar right and its beauty and desirability never go out of style. Plenty of traditionalists still seek a new instrument constructed exactly like the great originals of the 1930s, ’40s, ’50s, and ’60s. Welcome the True Vintage series, comprising the SJ-200, J-185, J-45, Southern Jumbo, and Hummingbird. “These are for the true collector,” says Voltz. “They’ve just got that vibe,” Voltz explains. “We use aged vintage toner for a genuine vintage look, period-correct tuners, and historically accurate design touches like the advanced wide X-bracing on the Southern Jumbo and J-45, vintage thin back braces on the SJ-200 and J-185, and plenty more. Even the case is an exact model of a 1939 ES-300 case, with five-ply construction, pink lining, padded leather handle, and accurate nickel-plated hardware.” Befitting their True Vintage purity, these models do not have electronics as standard, but Gibson will retrofit them for artists who require electronics. Also, all rosewood fingerboards and bridges are made from AAA rosewood, which Voltz says is the closest thing to endangered Brazilian rosewood (a wood listed on the CITES list of endangered species, and one which Gibson strictly refuses to use). All True Vintage models feature: • Traditional binding over fret ends • Traditional tuners • Genuine bone nut and saddle • Extra dark vintage-look amber toner • Traditional orange label Whether you’re a demanding contemporary player or a collector who’s fanatical about precision and craftsmanship, Gibson’s got the acoustic guitar for you. Between the Modern Classics and True Vintage Series—not to mention the Signature Artist Series, Legend Series, and Custom guitars—the craftsmen in Bozeman, Montana, are creating instruments to suit all requirements, all of them among the finest acoustic guitars produced today. Red 333 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62burst Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Nicely done. Thanks for posting the above. That's what (who) I was waiting for :)! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichG Posted November 17, 2012 Author Share Posted November 17, 2012 Yes, thanks for the great information. 62burst, I would love to have one of those cases, too. I guess if I get the guitar I'll have one. I have a J55 with an old, but not original case. I bet it would fit and look good in that case. Thanks again. It is nice to have a forum like this. I have played for years but never paid enough attention to the Gibsons except to know a J50 when I saw one. Or a B25n. I have a friend who sold a J45TV last year but I wasn't smart enough then to buy it. I thought I wanted a real vintage J45, but the price kept me from pulling the trigger. Then a friend had this J55 for sale. Now that I know more about the J45TV I want one. I have a HD28 Martin which will go to make room for the right J45TV. I've also thought about an Advanced Jumbo, but I like the mahogany better. I'm afraid the Gibson Addiction is taking hold. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambler Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Thanks, Red. Note that the "True Vintage has the Advanced Jumbo's forward shifted, wider angle x bracing; the Historic Collection does not," which, fwiw, is not True to vintage, particularly. Not that there's anything wrong with that. There's always The Legend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Thanks, Red. Note that the "True Vintage has the Advanced Jumbo's forward shifted, wider angle x bracing; the Historic Collection does not," which, fwiw, is not True to vintage, particularly. Not that there's anything wrong with that. There's always The Legend. Helluva upcharge for them to arrange the bracing in a specific pattern though isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red 333 Posted November 17, 2012 Share Posted November 17, 2012 Thanks, Red. Note that the "True Vintage has the Advanced Jumbo's forward shifted, wider angle x bracing; the Historic Collection does not," which, fwiw, is not True to vintage, particularly. Not that there's anything wrong with that. There's always The Legend. Right. The True Vintage doesn't actually represent any particular vintage Gibson. It's a combination of features from different eras, and some features, like the x bracing, that never were. A sort of greatest hits package. These features add up to a great, but unique to the 2000's guitar, worthy of the storied Gibsons of the past. Confusingly named, though. The Legend, on the other hand, is a close to exact recreation of a specific instrument from a specific time. The J-45 True Vintage is a fantastic guitar. The J-45 Legend is the best modern Gibson I've played. Red 333 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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