Guest Farnsbarns Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 Info published by Gibson in 2012... Are there any drawbacks to using the layered rosewood fretboard? Only in the factory because of the additional labor required. However, we believe the extra work enables Gibson to continue to produce the highest quality American-made guitars. A statement that Gibson has published about it's up coming 2014 range.... Improved: Exceeding even our own uncompromising ideals Innovative PLEK technology provides precise fingerboard setup on all 2014 models Non-slip, easy grip knobs Redesigned strap button for on-stage security One-piece fingerboards enhance sustain Fly over the fingerboard with undercut fret over binding Cryogenically treated frets are the longest lasting frets ever made Sorry Gibson, you can't have your cake and eat it. One of these statements simply has to be a lie, they are diametrically opposed. Now, please state one way or the other. Either 2012 models with layered boards are inferior and you lied last year, in which case you need to refund anyone who asks, or the 2014 models, having 1 piece boards, are in no way superior and you need to revoke the claim(my personal belief being the latter btw). Anyone else who is as disappointed in this apparent dishonesty as I am should push for a response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookieman15061 Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 I don't see the problem. They really aren't opposing views just talking about 2 different issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quapman Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 Marketing. I have worked for the same company for 32 years. I am a Tier III support tech. I support our internal techs and liaison with the vendors when I can't fix it myself. I have to correct, redesign, rebuild or repair all the promises the Marketing people make. They make my life miserable. It's all about selling product. Honesty has nothing to do with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Farnsbarns Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 I don't see the problem. They really aren't opposing views just talking about 2 different issues. That's an interesting view. The way I see it, they say that there is no drawbacks to the layered boards in one statement and that it had a negative impact on sustain in another. I'd be interested to hear more about how/why you disagree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 Info published by Gibson in 2012... A statement that Gibson has published about it's up coming 2014 range.... Sorry Gibson, you can't have your cake and eat it. One of these statements simply has to be a lie, they are diametrically opposed. Now, please state one way or the other. Either 2012 models with layered boards are inferior and you lied last year, in which case you need to refund anyone who asks, or the 2014 models, having 1 piece boards, are in no way superior and you need to revoke the claim(my personal belief being the latter btw). Anyone else who is as disappointed in this apparent dishonesty as I am should push for a response. Well I think this was the response after they had to start using layered boards after the raid.. so they had no choice at the time and this was their response when A LOT of people started questioning why they were doing it (its (sadly) normal for any big company to try and put a positive spin on things)... They did then go back to once piece boards when it was all sorted out. As much as they were trying to make the best out of a bad situation, the only other thing they could have done is stopped production which I think would have been worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Farnsbarns Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 Well I think this was the response after they had to start using layered boards after the raid.. so they had no choice at the time and this was their response when A LOT of people started questioning why they were doing it (its (sadly) normal for any big company to try and put a positive spin on things)... They did then go back to once piece boards when it was all sorted out. As much as they were trying to make the best out of a bad situation, the only other thing they could have done is stopped production which I think would have been worse. Or just not made the 2014 claim, or the 2012 claim, depending on your belief. Point is, they have done a 180 when it suited them, that's not on. One of these statements simply has to be untrue. Telling a blatant lie, in writing, is a big problem, to me, at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookieman15061 Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 No where do they say that the layered fretboard enhances sustain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Farnsbarns Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 No where do they say that the layered fretboard enhances sustain. No, they say 1 piece enhances it. Enhances it from what point of comparison? The only point of comparison is layered boards but they previously claimed that there was no drawbacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 Or just not made the 2014 claim, or the 2012 claim, depending on your belief. Point is, they have done a 180 when it suited them, that's not on. One of these statements simply has to be untrue. Telling a blatant lie, in writing, is a big problem, to me, at least. Yeah its just marketing nonsense... we all know that.. like the new phones that have the brightest ever screens and do this and that.. its all nonsense. If they didn't do that, advertising would be like this :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfMmWOF_H88 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Farnsbarns Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 Yeah its just marketing nonsense... we all know that.. like the new phones that have the brightest ever screens and do this and that.. its all nonsense. If they didn't do that advertising would be like this :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfMmWOF_H88 I do understand that but it's rare that a company will make two utterly opposite claims. That's because it can get you into a lot of trouble. If I had a 2012 model and was bothered by the layered board I would be taking these two statements to my solicitor strait away. It's not that I have an issue with the layered boards, I have an issue with the opposing claims made by the company as their needs changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btoth76 Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 Hello! It was indeed a very unfortunate sentence. Bi-layered fretboards do no harm to sustain. So the second statement is a lie. A big marketing fail that can turn out to be very ugly. I can imagine that the owners of those 2012 instrument, are angry now. Not because of the sustain thing, obviously they already know whether it's a good solution or not. But, the resale price of these guitars will drop. Cheers... Bence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pin Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 Info published by Gibson in 2012... A statement that Gibson has published about it's up coming 2014 range.... Sorry Gibson, you can't have your cake and eat it. One of these statements simply has to be a lie, they are diametrically opposed. Now, please state one way or the other. Either 2012 models with layered boards are inferior and you lied last year, in which case you need to refund anyone who asks, or the 2014 models, having 1 piece boards, are in no way superior and you need to revoke the claim(my personal belief being the latter btw). Anyone else who is as disappointed in this apparent dishonesty as I am should push for a response. I agree 100%. In my view, Gibson has issued two contradictory statements and one MUST be a falsehood. Not good enough from the World's premier guitar manufacturer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookieman15061 Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 Every guitar is different to me. I prefer rosewood boards on my fenders but own both. I have a classic custom with baked maple board and love it as much as my trad with RW board. It comes down to what YOU like not what some ad dept says or may imply. We're talking instruments made of wood and wire some will always be more enhanced than others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookieman15061 Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 Hello! It was indeed a very unfortunate sentence. Bi-layered fretboards do no harm to sustain. So the second statement is a lie. A big marketing fail that can turn out to be very ugly. I can imagine that the owners of those 2012 instrument, are angry now. Not because of the sustain thing, obviously they already know whether it's a good solution or not. But, the resale price of these guitars will drop. Cheers... Bence If you own one and love it why would you even care? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Farnsbarns Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 Every guitar is different to me. I prefer rosewood boards on my fenders but own both. I have a classic custom with baked maple board and love it as much as my trad with RW board. It comes down to what YOU like not what some ad dept says or may imply. We're talking instruments made of wood and wire some will always be more enhanced than others. True, true, true. Entirely beside the point but true. The point here isn't about which statement is true, it's about the two diametrically apposed statements. If you don't see them as opposed then that's one thing but I can't see how anyone can accept both as being true, like saying the sun rises in the east and that it rises in the west. One of these statements is a lie, they cannot coexist as truths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btoth76 Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 If you own one and love it why would you even care? Hello! Right, but have You seen - here at the Forums - how many ask about actual selling prices of different models? Many still think of Gibsons as investments. (Me not). Cheers... Bence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Farnsbarns Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 If you own one and love it why would you even care? What if you own one and don't like it? Gibson are now freely admitting that they suffer with decreased sustain. As I said earlier, I'd be on my way to court to get my money back. I hope Gibson has earmarked a few million for refunding 2012 owners who now think they'd rather have a one piece board because there is no point fighting this one. Bullet firmly implanted in foot I'm afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btoth76 Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 Plus the psychological aspect. Do You remember the guy, who dropped in recently, telling us how shocked He was to find out that His Reissue - probably - has a bi-layered fretboard? Yes, that's how it works for people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 No, they say 1 piece enhances it. Enhances it from what point of comparison? The only point of comparison is layered boards but they previously claimed that there was no drawbacks. It depends on your selection of the definition of the word 'enhance'. One definition merely implies an 'increase'. Gibson don't claim an increase in sustain is de facto a good thing therefore an increase in sustain might, from one viewpoint, be neither an improvement nor a retrograde step. Do you know any good lawyers, Farns?............lol! Me? I'm keeping schtum. ....and this fence hurts my bum something chronic! P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quapman Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 If you own one and love it why would you even care? I'm gonna go with this,,, who cares???? Many still think of Gibsons as investments. Well that is just ridiculous and I don't want those people managing my retirement funds. What if you own one and don't like it? Then why did you buy it? Nobody held a gun to anyone's head when they were for sale. If you pre-ordered and didn't try it out first I fail to see how that is Gibson's problem. If they lied about the actual material that might be different. But they were sold as layered fretboards. The rest is pure marketing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quapman Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 ....and this fence hurts my bum something chronic! P. Lol,, you sir are a wordsmith in disguise. But if I may, your bum pain is more acute than chronic. All you would have to do is remove your bum from the fence and the acute discomfort would cease. However, by not choosing a side to remove the fence, your pain will regretfully become chronic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pin Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 It depends on your selection of the definition of the word 'enhance'. One definition merely implies an 'increase'. Gibson don't claim an increase in sustain is de facto a good thing therefore an increase in sustain might, from one viewpoint, be neither an improvement nor a retrograde step. The "splitting of hairs" argument has made its appearance! True, Gibson don't claim that "enhanced" = "increased" and that therefore this is a good thing. However, why mention it at all then? But maybe "enhanced" means simply "tonally superior" in which case the objection still stands and that a contradiction has been foisted on the Gibson buying public and which has directly implied some purchasers buying an inferior product. My reading is that Gibson are implying that a one piece fingerboard is somehow better then a layered / multipiece board. If this is not true, then why utter that statement at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdgm Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 With the utmost respect..... Farns - your original post has a particularly British, slightly pompous spleneticism (spleen?) which I doubt Americans would ever understand at all...WTF is this guy actually objecting to? Is this another Python English irony thread? The 2 statements you quote are not, on the face of it, mutually exclusive or even related. It is publicity, and a year between them. No-one knows about or understands publicity more than the Americans. (EDIT) To almost anyone (probably including me in a blindfold test) there will be no audible, sonic difference. Anyway, can I PM you sometime about amp advice and...things? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Farnsbarns Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 It depends on your selection of the definition of the word 'enhance'. One definition merely implies an 'increase'. Gibson don't claim an increase in sustain is de facto a good thing therefore an increase in sustain might, from one viewpoint, be neither an improvement nor a retrograde step. Do you know any good lawyers, Farns?............lol! Me? I'm keeping schtum. ....and this fence hurts my bum something chronic! P. Let me help you down you poor chap. I should place the 2014 statement in it's context better. I shall highlight the key word you're looking for in the paragraph's subtitle and include the rest of the text in the paragraph.... Improved: Exceeding even our own uncompromising ideals Innovative PLEK technology provides precise fingerboard setup on all 2014 models Non-slip, easy grip knobs Redesigned strap button for on-stage security One-piece fingerboards enhance sustain Fly over the fingerboard with undercut fret over binding Cryogenically treated frets are the longest lasting frets ever made Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdgm Posted November 28, 2013 Share Posted November 28, 2013 Whoops! (EDIT). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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