sorry Gibson, I'm calling you out on this one

[pippy]

...your bum is more cute than chronic...

There, quap. Fixed!

 

...My reading...

....it wouldn't stand up in a court of Law as it is merely an opinion.....;)

Clearly I've been watching Morse too often.........lol!

 

The "splitting of hairs" argument has made its appearance!...

As 'The Boss' was wont to say;

"But Mamma! That's Where the Fun Is!"...

 

 

P.

[pippy]

Let me help you down you poor chap. I should place the 2014 statement in it's context better. I shall highlight the key word you're looking for in the paragraph's subtitle and include the rest of the text in the paragraph...

Ahh...well..........bu' ah gave ye the runaroun', eh?..........

 

It's a Fair Cop.........It was me an' Nobby wot done it............If it hadnae been fer thae pesky kids............Ah dunno..........ye shag ONE sheep..........

 

It's jus' no bloody fair........

 

P.

[Hall]

Well it depends on what the definition of "is", is.

[quapman]

There, quap. Fixed!

 

P.

 

I was really really worried that was going to appear somehow.

[Bender 4 Life]

Marketing.

 

I have worked for the same company for 32 years.

I am a Tier III support tech. I support our internal techs and liaison with the vendors when I can't fix it myself.

 

I have to correct, redesign, rebuild or repair all the promises the Marketing people make.

 

They make my life miserable.

 

It's all about selling product. Honesty has nothing to do with it.

 

OMG.......you sound like the main character from the comic strip "Dilbert" !

please don't take that the wrong way, as we're ALL Dilberts to one degree or other.

[Bender 4 Life]

sooooo....who really cares about a few extra seconds of sustain?

can we all play more than one 10,000,000 second note at a time? I hope so !

 

now, lets inject some reason here.....

 

yes, Gibson gave some statements that can be viewed as opposing if you look at it long and hard enough.....so what?

they're a multibillion dollar corporation that likely doesn't write their own ad-copy.

it's happened before, it'll happen again.

remember when cigarette companies ads stated that it was better to "light up a Lucky" after dinner than have a piece of pie?

 

anyone wanting to hire a lawyer to confront Gibson about this....will likely learn what it sounds like to be laughed at.

 

sometimes ya gotta just say skroo it, and let it go!

[capmaster]

Since this is not about warranted characteristics referring to certain benchmarks, there's no sense in scrutinizing that IMHO. I also believe that most of the public relations are done by marketing people, not musicians. So they perhaps might not take into account what musicians may feel when reading.

 

I remember that they started advertising weight relief providing increased resonance and sustain. With the release of the Traditional 2013, they said it had more sustain due to the solid mahogany. I don't think there is anything like a miraculous spiral of sustain enhancements with each of the design changes back and forth.

 

However, in the end everybody will have to decide for oneself.

[badbluesplayer]

How's that whole "trying to get some wood on the cheap" thing going for you now, Hank?

 

When it comes to the wood thing, they've been reinventing history the whole time. So it's no surprise that they're still at it.

 

I have a 2012 LP Standard myself, and if the fretboard explodes, I'm going to take it to Nashville and stand outside the Factory and shake it at them and yell!! Until they call Security.

[capmaster]

...

As 'The Boss' was wont to say;

"But Mamma! That's Where the Fun Is!"...

 

 

P.

Think "The Boss" wrote and Chris Thompson sang these words, but who of them both was Blinded By The Light

 

 

OK, here it goes a bit more about deafened by the sound

 

[pippy]

sooooo....who really cares about a few extra seconds of sustain?...

I must say I agree. How many times does anyone actually NEED 25 seconds of sustain as opposed to 22 seconds of sustain?

And if you intend to play 'Parisienne Walkways' you'll need to learn how to control harmonically-induced feedback in any case.

 

Famously (or perhaps not?) Gibson decided, after many tests, on the final relative thicknesses of mahogany & maple to give enough, but not too much, sustaining properties to the '52 LP.

 

I Think "The Boss" wrote and Chris Thompson sang these words...

Who is/was Chris Thompson, Cap?

AFAIK Brucie sang it. I've just checked the sleeve-notes and there's no mention of a Chris Thompson........

 

P.

[quapman]

OMG.......you sound like the main character from the comic strip "Dilbert" !

please don't take that the wrong way, as we're ALL Dilberts to one degree or other.

 

 

Lol,,, sorry Bro,, I figured that may ruffle a few sales feathers.

No harm done, I didn't take it the wrong way.

 

Just telling it like it is from my perspective, having worked in the Telco industry since 1981.

Before we had any private competition in the market and no sales or marketing department was necessary.

 

So just explaining the evolution I have witnessed over my 32 year career in an industry that at one time

in it's life, didn't have a single sales or marketing person on staff.

[capmaster]

...

Who is/was Chris Thompson, Cap?

AFAIK Brucie sang it. I've just checked the sleeve-notes and there's no mention of a Chris Thompson........

 

P.

I was talking about Chris Thompson, vocalist and guitarist with Manfred Mann's Earth Band. Their cover version of Blinded By The Light was a major single hit here, but I prefer the full-length album version.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Thompson_(English_musician)

 

 

Comment: The treble range of drums and cymbals sounds a bit poor which is not a problem of the video channel or transmission to it. There's some phasing (comb filtering) problem in the original recording or tape transmission which is also audible on the original album.

[pippy]

I was talking about Chris Thompson, vocalist and guitarist with Manfred Mann's Earth Band....

Ah, yes. I remember it now.

 

Thanks for reminding me.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Terrible version...............LOL!

 

P.

[vangoghsear]

I'm glad I'm not a manufacturer in this economy of what for most people is a high end luxury item. Since money is so tight, most people can't buy their goods and those who do spend for something like a high end guitar, want it to be...well...high end.

 

The problem is our idiot government isn't helping our businesses, they're enforcing laws like the one that got Gibson in trouble, which as it was interpreted, actually supported outsourcing part of the manufacturing process. And also as typical of our current administration, it was a law that no one knew whether or not they were complying with because it actually required OUR businesses to follow all the applicable laws of the exporting country, even when the exporting country claimed that Gibson complied, our idiot government decided that they didn't!

 

I believe that Gibson's response to the question of fretboard construction is more geared to structural integrity and concerns over tone being dead, or 'inadequate' sustain. I would imagine it is nearly indistinguishable from a 1 piece fretboard, probably far less susceptible to variations due to temperature and humidity, and a glue joint is stronger than the wood it's connecting, so structure should not be a concern. As long as there aren't any voids in the glue, the tone should be great.

 

Does a one piece fretboard add sustain? I doubt it. Resonance perhaps, but that actually would reduce sustain because increase in sound is an effect indicating inefficiency, but increased resonance could be considered a sustain "enhancement." Like Pippy was saying with the '52 LP, the ideal fretboard would be a compromise between sustain and resonance.

[capmaster]

...

I have a 2012 LP Standard myself, and if the fretboard explodes, I'm going to take it to Nashville and stand outside the Factory and shake it at them and yell!! Until they call Security.

Here's a 2012 Standard, too. In case of an exploding fretboard I would bring it back to the dealer, Thomann in this case. There they know that laughing is my favorite occupation, so it may be sufficient if I stay serious.

At least I think I won't be in need of shaking and yelling there.

 

There are some more Gibsons made in 2012 in my arsenal. I hope they didn't make Custom Shop guitars using laminated rosewood, and I don't think they made laminated fingerboards of baked maple or Richlite

[jimmyl51]

You could not have said this any better! jim in Maine

[milod]

One of the problems with ad copy is that it's by intent written to be open to interpretation.

 

For example, "Nothing cleans your teeth better than Odontoshine." Consider the meanings. Using nothing cleans teeth better than Odontoshine?

 

The Gibbie ad stated the instrument was upgraded and noted several changes, of which the fingerboard point was one.

 

Whether most of those changes are a true upgrade is pretty much subjective.

 

I'm not sure how any fingerboard enhances sustain given that technically it's the nut, bridge for an open string; then the fret to bridge for a fretted string. The degree to which a given type of fret may interact with a fingerboard type is something I'd have a hard time suggesting a difference among about any sort of fingerboard. I'd wager that there would be more difference in "sustain" or anything else by the wood(s) and type of neck design - but perhaps that's just me.

 

But having read the OP suggestion of "lie," I'd suggest that a critical reading of the material with an eye toward toward following the logic of the words as opposed to an individual's perception of the implied "benefits." Then again, that's pretty much true of most advertising "selling points."

 

The word "enhanced" itself, without explanation and comparison, is pretty much open to whatever interpretation one might consider. Is, for example, a snap-front over a zipper on a cold weather parka "enhanced" from one with Velcro? Vice versa? Positioning of the strap button ditto.

 

In ways I'll wager it's less expensive to use a single piece of rosewood (or whatever) for a fingerboard as opposed to any sort of half decent laminate. Elsewhere on the forum we've seen varying opinions of differing fingerboard materials and frankly as long as they don't warp off the neck, I'm not sure that there's an overwhelming argument on any type that's tough enough to hold frets and won't warp off the neck.

 

Some folks have suggested that ebony or some of our modern tech-crafted equivalents are far superior to rosewood on grounds that there's not the grain to mess with bending; I'd suggest fret and string and technique play a super role in that, but it's just me perhaps.

 

m

 

Edit: how about finding "logic" in this part of the statement: "Fly over the fingerboard with undercut fret over binding."

 

Say what?

 

m

[Guest Farnsbarns]

I hope they didn't make Custom Shop guitars using laminated rosewood

 

They did... :-&

[BigKahune]

.

At the beginning of the whole laminated rosewood debacle, Gibson took the ethical low road - the lowest road. They didn't tell anyone. People were buying guitars without the knowledge that Gibson had began to use laminated rosewood for fingerboards on electric and acoustic guitars, as well as laminated rosewood for bridges on acoustic guitars. And yes, Gibson was using laminated rosewood on premium priced guitars - Historics and True Vintage models. When word got out, some people were pissed and some didn't care. BTW, the top layer of the fingerboard laminates was shallower that the fret tangs, essentially creating 22 little pieces of rosewood glued down between the fret wires. Quite an uproar ensued and Gibson posted this little wonder - http://www2.gibson.com/Support/FAQ-Tonewoods.aspx - with this load of BS: "Why didn't you use these materials before? The recent disruption of supply caused us to move up some plans we already had in R&D. We were also contacted by a variety of new suppliers with alternatives we had not yet tried, which we found to be excellent for guitar construction."

 

Save the explanations and excuses. After having gone through this BS, I can certainly see where Farns is coming from. Since Gibson has dumped layered/laminated rosewood, I guess that R&D went out the window too - don't see too much alternative material/wood anymore except for richlite. It's pretty obvious to me the low road got Gibson in pretty deep, so they quietly tried to move back to solid rosewood. So Gibby, stop tripping over your tongue - when you make a change, be up fron; and stay on the straight, narrow and solid path.

 

 

.

[cookieman15061]

I was talking about Chris Thompson, vocalist and guitarist with Manfred Mann's Earth Band. Their cover version of Blinded By The Light was a major single hit here, but I prefer the full-length album version.

 

 

 

Yeah and he sang the words wrong.

Wrapped up like a ******?

WTF!!

[rct]

My Dear Mr. Farnsbarns:

 

A guitar player of only modest experience knows beyond a doubt that most of the stuff that is said to sell a guitar is, in a term, bulls hit. The things that are used to buy a guitar all come from the guitar player. The things that make a guitar sound great all come from the guitar player. The guitar maker is obligated only to make a decent guitar that doesn't fall apart after the third hour of use, the thirtieth hour, and the three thousandth hour. It is the guitar players job to demonstrate just how great that guitar really is, not the marketing dooshbagz or the sales dudes. Quite frankly, Gibson can say anything they want, you know and I know that we make the decision as to whether it is a great guitar or not, no matter what the blurbs say about it. They know it too, that's why and how they can sell so many guitars, like the guys out in California know as well, and them jokers in Nazareth PA. Motor on brutha. Who cares what they say in the ad? The only people that care about that are the peoples that don't yet know about guitars, and soon they will know about them, and then they too won't care what they call the fingerboards because when the drums start getting hit by that Neanderthal, the bass gets thumped at by the least thanked band member, and the Hammond/Leslie is making your knees quiver, what you do with that thing is all that matters.

 

rct

[nick_s]

I wish they would keep Baked Maple it is my favorite all time fretboard above Ebony.

 

Im glad I got one.

 

I don't want a Richlite at all.

 

I don't think the Baked Maple was laminated It does not seem like the Granadillo was either.

 

Im extremely happy with my Classic Custom and Signature T

 

 

 

 

On the 2013 Studio, it is definitely one piece granadillo :)

 

That said, I think Gibsons marketing is just that, marketing. Telling people what they want to hear in order to sell, and this has snagged their sweater now. To be honest, I would suspect only machines could measure the sustain difference of a lam v solid board, and even that is open to scrutiny as wood is an organic product and therefore no two pieces are alike.

 

I'd not lose any sleep over lam v solid UNLESS I was told I had solid and actually had laminate. That would be a blatant lie and therefore something they should rectify. I could increase sustain by upping the gain on the amp, and get far more than I reckon Gibson claim is gained by using one piece as opposed to lam boards.

[gdecantoo]

Gotta love the marketing pros. Take a look at your laundry detergent bottles. On a 50 ounce bottle.

Large print 50 percent more!

Fine print (Than a 25 ounce bottle)

[Bender 4 Life]

Gotta love the marketing pros. Take a look at your laundry detergent bottles. On a 50 ounce bottle.

Large print 50 percent more!

Fine print (Than a 25 ounce bottle)

 

but....50 oz is 100% more than 25 oz......oh krapp....i've been ripped off again !!!!

 

where's that link to the Tide soap powder forum?

[capmaster]

Yeah and he sang the words wrong.

Wrapped up like a ******?

WTF!!

There was a poor azimuth alignment of at least one of the multitrack machines they recorded and mixed the Manfred Mann's Earth Band version with. They also may have used poorly set de-essers which I reject totally. Anyway, I always heard "deuce" here despite of the bad comb filtering, especially apparent with snare drum and cymbals due to additional crosstalk phasing, but affecting vocals, too.

 

Since they assumably have used Dolby A noise reduction, the problem is further aggravated due to an overreaction of the playback expanders. The tape recorders' recording and playback equalizer adjustments, and level alignments of both compressor and expander are very critical. Additionally, Dolby systems are sliding band, and so the frequency response appears to be deteriorated both static and dynamic. Thus pronunciation may translate poorly in the final product.

 

May also have happened that I got it right because English is not my first language.

 

Ironically, the Manfred Mann's Earth Band version of Blinded By The Light was the only Billboard #1 ever reached by a song written by Bruce Springsteen. :)