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Twisted neck

#1 User is offline   Dave1963 

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 02:59 AM

I have had my ES335 for a few months and decided I need the action dropping a bit. I tried to do it myself but struggled to get it right without strings choking. I took it to my tech and he told be he thought the neck has a slight twist. Turns out he was right....
He sorted it out by a little fret re-profiling and now the action is spot on and no choking when bending strings.
He seem to think the twist was due to the guitar being on a wall hanger for an extended duration. I did get it discounted as it was the previous years model, so I am led to believe it had been in the shop for some time.

Anyone else experienced anything like this?

[confused]

This post has been edited by Dave1963: 13 April 2018 - 02:59 AM

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#2 User is offline   merciful-evans 

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 05:13 AM

That sounds weird. I thought wall hangers were safe.

The weight distribution of a 335 would be pretty even when hung I would think. No, I never experienced anything like that.
I'm glad your luthier was able to sort the problem though Dave. You must be very relieved (um... no pun intended!).

This post has been edited by merciful-evans: 13 April 2018 - 05:14 AM

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#3 User is offline   Dave1963 

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 05:24 AM

View Postmerciful-evans, on 13 April 2018 - 05:13 AM, said:

That sounds weird. I thought wall hangers were safe.

The weight distribution of a 335 would be pretty even when hung I would think. No, I never experienced anything like that.
I'm glad your luthier was able to sort the problem though Dave. You must be very relieved (um... no pun intended!).


Yes very relieved!

I was attributing the choking on not being used to '10's and poor technique on my part.....
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#4 User is offline   D-28 

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 09:36 AM

Yeah that sounds strange. Every huge guitar store has guitars on wall hangers. If it were an issue you think it would be more common.
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#5 User is offline   Dave1963 

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 01:48 PM

Maybe it was buggered out of the factory....Hard to tell. I am just glad it's sorted and for very little outlay.
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#6 User is offline   jdgm 

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 03:18 PM

View Postmerciful-evans, on 13 April 2018 - 05:13 AM, said:


......weight distribution.....would be pretty even when hung I would think......


Things can get twisted (it seems) even when well hung....... :P

Just ask Big Bill......



Carry on!

This post has been edited by jdgm: 13 April 2018 - 03:19 PM

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#7 User is offline   bobouz 

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 01:32 AM

A guitar can certainly have or develop a twisted neck,

but it's unlikely that an extended wall-hanger stay would cause it.
> Gibsons: '22 "A" Mandolin / '66 ES 125T / '66 Epi FT-45n Cortez (B-25) / '90 Tennessean
'00 J-100 Xtra / '02 J-45 Rosewood / '02 SG Faded-moon / '09 ES 339 / '10 ES 330L
'11 ES 335-P90s / '12 ES 330 VOS / '12 LP Special / '12 J-185
'13 LG2-AE / '13 Midtown Kalamazoo / '14 J-15 / '15 J-50 CS
> Epiphones: '00 AIUSA-John Lee Hooker 1964 Sheraton / '05 McCartney 1964 Texan (Terada)
'09 Elitist 1965 Casino / > Ibanez: '81 M-340 / > Breedlove: '10 American Series OO Mandolin
> Guilds: '73 F-30R / '74 F-40 / '76 G-37 / '92 D-6 / '94 JF-30 / '97 Starfire / '14 Savoy A-150b
> Martins: '00 OOO-16 / '01 Custom Rosewood Dreadnought
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#8 User is offline   badbluesplayer 

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 06:27 AM

My Gibson's always seem to have a very slight twist to the neck, although it's pretty negligible. They tend to twist toward the low e side so that I'll end up with maybe twice the relief on the low e string than the high e string. I'm not sure if that's common with Gibson's or what. It's just my anecdotal observation. I always figured it was the uneven tension in the strings that made my necks all twist the same way.
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#9 User is offline   Larsongs 

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 10:12 AM

If you bought it new why not have Gibson repair or or replace under Lifetime Warranty?

I've had Gibson Factory do Warranty work on 3 of my Guitars over the past 10 years. As recent as a few months ago. All Top Notch work.

Lars

This post has been edited by Larsongs: 14 April 2018 - 01:44 PM

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#10 User is offline   Dave1963 

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 11:56 AM

View PostLarsongs, on 14 April 2018 - 10:12 AM, said:

If you bought it new why not have Gibson repair or or replace under Lifetime Warranty?

I've had Gibson Factory do Warranty work on 3 of my Guitars over the past 10 years. As recent as a few months ago. All Top Notch work.

Lars


Hi Lars.

Its like this: My guitar was with me in the Luthiers' workshop, he said he could sort it easily. I didn't want to send it anywhere or muck about waiting for it. I trust him to do excellent work, so I will get the setup I want. As I said, it wasn't expensive and I had it back the next day...Job done...
"I don't know where I'm going from here, but I promise it won't be boring" - David Bowie
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#11 User is offline   Dave1963 

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 11:57 AM

View Postbobouz, on 14 April 2018 - 01:32 AM, said:

A guitar can certainly have or develop a twisted neck,

but it's unlikely that an extended wall-hanger stay would cause it.


So it seems. It was probably like it from the off and I only noticed it when I tried to drop the action.
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#12 User is offline   Dave1963 

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 12:00 PM

View Postbadbluesplayer, on 14 April 2018 - 06:27 AM, said:

My Gibson's always seem to have a very slight twist to the neck, although it's pretty negligible. They tend to twist toward the low e side so that I'll end up with maybe twice the relief on the low e string than the high e string. I'm not sure if that's common with Gibson's or what. It's just my anecdotal observation. I always figured it was the uneven tension in the strings that made my necks all twist the same way.


That was the case with mine and it wasn't noticeable until I dropped the action. I am happy how it is now.
"I don't know where I'm going from here, but I promise it won't be boring" - David Bowie
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#13 User is offline   Pat in the hat 

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 07:18 AM

I purchased a 2017 es 335 earlier this year. Took it home and it was completely untunable. Took it back the next day to the big box store. The very knowledgeable guitar tech looked at it and then showed me what was wrong. The neck was twisted severely. He didnít even attempt to try to fix it. They replaced it with another one from the same store. The tech said the quality control out of Memphis has really declined. The guitar never should have made it out of inspection, he said.
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#14 User is offline   Larsongs 

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 09:22 AM

View PostDave1963, on 15 April 2018 - 11:56 AM, said:

Hi Lars.

Its like this: My guitar was with me in the Luthiers' workshop, he said he could sort it easily. I didn't want to send it anywhere or muck about waiting for it. I trust him to do excellent work, so I will get the setup I want. As I said, it wasn't expensive and I had it back the next day...Job done...


Glad it worked out for you. Not sure how that affects your Lifetime Warranty though?
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#15 User is offline   bobouz 

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 01:35 PM

View PostDave1963, on 15 April 2018 - 11:57 AM, said:

So it seems. It was probably like it from the off and I only noticed it when I tried to drop the action.

Yes, I would say most neck twists on fairly recent guitars left the factory that way.

Back in 2001, I bought a new Gibson J-150 acoustic, and it took a while for me to figure out that the neck was twisted a bit. Problem is, it doesn't take much of a twist to impact your set-up & intonation, and there's no easy fix to getting the twist out. Someone else could possibly live with it, but I couldn't & the guitar eventually became part of a trade.

Lesson learned. Nowadays when considering an instrument, I always check the neck by sighting it from the headstock down to the body, as well as along each side of the fretboard.
> Gibsons: '22 "A" Mandolin / '66 ES 125T / '66 Epi FT-45n Cortez (B-25) / '90 Tennessean
'00 J-100 Xtra / '02 J-45 Rosewood / '02 SG Faded-moon / '09 ES 339 / '10 ES 330L
'11 ES 335-P90s / '12 ES 330 VOS / '12 LP Special / '12 J-185
'13 LG2-AE / '13 Midtown Kalamazoo / '14 J-15 / '15 J-50 CS
> Epiphones: '00 AIUSA-John Lee Hooker 1964 Sheraton / '05 McCartney 1964 Texan (Terada)
'09 Elitist 1965 Casino / > Ibanez: '81 M-340 / > Breedlove: '10 American Series OO Mandolin
> Guilds: '73 F-30R / '74 F-40 / '76 G-37 / '92 D-6 / '94 JF-30 / '97 Starfire / '14 Savoy A-150b
> Martins: '00 OOO-16 / '01 Custom Rosewood Dreadnought
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#16 User is offline   Dave1963 

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Posted 17 April 2018 - 07:42 AM

View Postbobouz, on 16 April 2018 - 01:35 PM, said:


Lesson learned. Nowadays when considering an instrument, I always check the neck by sighting it from the headstock down to the body, as well as along each side of the fretboard.


I doubt I would have picked up on it by sighting it, as it was such a tiny amount out. My eyes are pretty well knackered as well. With my varifocal glasses on, nothing looks straight!
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#17 User is offline   Dave1963 

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Posted 17 April 2018 - 07:44 AM

View PostLarsongs, on 16 April 2018 - 09:22 AM, said:

Glad it worked out for you. Not sure how that affects your Lifetime Warranty though?


What they don't know, won't hurt them? [tongue]
Besides, I would assume every one gets their guitars set-up to their own liking?
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#18 User is offline   Dave1963 

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Posted 17 April 2018 - 07:48 AM

View PostPat in the hat, on 16 April 2018 - 07:18 AM, said:

I purchased a 2017 es 335 earlier this year. Took it home and it was completely untunable. Took it back the next day to the big box store. The very knowledgeable guitar tech looked at it and then showed me what was wrong. The neck was twisted severely. He didnít even attempt to try to fix it. They replaced it with another one from the same store. The tech said the quality control out of Memphis has really declined. The guitar never should have made it out of inspection, he said.


If mine had been that bad, I would have done the same. Fortunately a little tweaking sorted it, although I do agree that it should have been picked up at the factory.
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#19 User is offline   merciful-evans 

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Posted 17 April 2018 - 08:41 AM

View Postbadbluesplayer, on 14 April 2018 - 06:27 AM, said:

My Gibson's always seem to have a very slight twist to the neck, although it's pretty negligible. They tend to twist toward the low e side so that I'll end up with maybe twice the relief on the low e string than the high e string. I'm not sure if that's common with Gibson's or what. It's just my anecdotal observation. I always figured it was the uneven tension in the strings that made my necks all twist the same way.


Is that a twist though? That sounds like exactly what you describe, uneven string tension causing uneven relief, which is pretty helpful I would have thought with the heavier strings having a larger antinodes.

I think of 'twisting' as a sort of corkscrew action. No? [mellow]
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#20 User is offline   badbluesplayer 

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Posted 18 April 2018 - 05:58 AM

View Postmerciful-evans, on 17 April 2018 - 08:41 AM, said:

Is that a twist though? That sounds like exactly what you describe, uneven string tension causing uneven relief, which is pretty helpful I would have thought with the heavier strings having a larger antinodes.

I think of 'twisting' as a sort of corkscrew action. No? [mellow]


The amount of twist in the neck can be measured pretty precisely by noting the difference in the relief between the strings across the board. I guess you could do it some other ways too, but this is pretty darn good. I always kind of monitor it when I change strings. Not that it changes much.
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