Victek Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 Just got a used Dot Deluxe VS - beautiful guitar but the gold plated hardware is showing it age. The tuners are especially bad, I guess from the constant handling. I'm looking for "drop in" parts, meaning they will be an exact fit for the current parts. So far I've found these; Tune-o-matic bridge parts: http://www.amazon.com/matic-Bridge-Tailpiece-Gibson-Replacement/dp/B009ALD8EA/ref=pd_cp_MI_0 Tuners: http://www.amazon.com/Tuning-Deluxe-Machine-Tuners-Replacement/dp/B00D12MK0M/ref=sr_1_3?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1372521165&sr=1-3&keywords=gold+tuners+gibson Neither mention Epiphone, but they look like the right parts. Note that the tuner mounting bracket is at a 45 degree angle which matches the original. Regarding tuners I'd actually prefer a locking set, like the grovers, but only if no drilling is required. If anyone confirm these are the correct parts, or point me at a source I'll be grateful. TIA Edit: Here's a pic of the tuners where you can see the angle of the braket/screw hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 No idea, but... I guess I'm not necessarily happy with the creases on my face, nor is my wife on hers, but they've been come by honestly. We keep 'em clean, I shave and she uses a little makeup, but that's all. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluemans335 Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 As cheap as those aftermarket tuners and bridge are, they're no better than what you have now. Why swap out low quality hardware for more low quality hardware? If you want to upgrade, you'll pay more than that, around $40-50 each for tuners and bridge. Check out some big suppliers in the US, like StewMac and AllParts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victek Posted June 29, 2013 Author Share Posted June 29, 2013 No idea, but... I guess I'm not necessarily happy with the creases on my face, nor is my wife on hers, but they've been come by honestly. We keep 'em clean, I shave and she uses a little makeup, but that's all. m I get that you're happy leaving it as is. I might feel that way if I was the original owner, but in any case I feel it's optional. I don't think it alters the guitar's integrity to replace its parts anymore than putting a fresh coat of paint on your house would. People are a different matter and I appreciate what you're saying about accepting aging, so thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 Your cash, your choice. Personally I wouldn't bother. Haven't bothered unless something was broken. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victek Posted June 29, 2013 Author Share Posted June 29, 2013 As cheap as those aftermarket tuners and bridge are, they're no better than what you have now. Why swap out low quality hardware for more low quality hardware? If you want to upgrade, you'll pay more than that, around $40-50 each for tuners and bridge. Check out some big suppliers in the US, like StewMac and AllParts. Well, I expect they're inexpensive because they're made in China, but how can you tell the quality is poor? Apart from that do you think they're the right parts in terms of fit? I'll also have a look at the other sites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitmore Willy Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 Nice guitar Victek. Congrats!!! Apart from that do you think they're the right parts in terms of fit? Depends if the seller knows the difference between Gibson and Epiphone. Epi is metric...Gibson is imperial. Those look to be very cheep metric. The finish on most gold "covered" parts (even expensive ones) will deteriorate. I'll also have a look at the other sites. Check out http://www.stewmac.com/ At least they give you the specs. If you want less expensive, then check out http://www.guitarfetish.com/ If you want more expensive then Faber makes custom titanium bridges and tailpieces starting just under $200. As to tuners...They mostly fit metric holes. (American guitars and otherwise) Your holes are likely 10mm. Take a tuner out and measure your hole. Best of luck...(post pics) Willy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 I definitely second the "even expensive" parts comment. My old Ovation Electric Legend was their top of the line when I bought it in the early '70s. The gold definitely is only a very thin skin deep. m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluemans335 Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 Well, I expect they're inexpensive because they're made in China, but how can you tell the quality is poor? Apart from that do you think they're the right parts in terms of fit? I'll also have a look at the other sites. It has nothing to do with them being made in China; you don't get good quality hardware at those prices. Very cheap materials and workmanship. If you want to replace what you have now because it has issues, you may have the same issues with new cheap stuff (tarnish quickly or not work well). And then you'd want to get something better, and spend even more. There are times in life when buying the cheapest things ends up costing you more. To upgrade what you have will cost around $100 new, less if you can find them used. If that's too much to spend now, save up in the meantime. Your guitar has the old no-name tuners, which Epi no longer uses, having switched to Grover Rotomatics, which are much better quality, robust and reliable. Personally, I'd get Grover Rotomatics (made in China I think). The screw holes won't match up, but who looks at the back of a headstock? I'd MUCH rather upgrade with good tuners than low quality exact duplicates. It's like PU's, sure you can buy PU's that are $15 new, but do you think you'll be happy with them? Or a guitar that's $100 new? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victek Posted June 30, 2013 Author Share Posted June 30, 2013 It has nothing to do with them being made in China; you don't get good quality hardware at those prices. Very cheap materials and workmanship. If you want to replace what you have now because it has issues, you may have the same issues with new cheap stuff (tarnish quickly or not work well). And then you'd want to get something better, and spend even more. There are times in life when buying the cheapest things ends up costing you more. To upgrade what you have will cost around $100 new, less if you can find them used. If that's too much to spend now, save up in the meantime. Your guitar has the old no-name tuners, which Epi no longer uses, having switched to Grover Rotomatics, which are much better quality, robust and reliable. Personally, I'd get Grover Rotomatics (made in China I think). The screw holes won't match up, but who looks at the back of a headstock? I'd MUCH rather upgrade with good tuners than low quality exact duplicates. It's like PU's, sure you can buy PU's that are $15 new, but do you think you'll be happy with them? Or a guitar that's $100 new? Thanks for the reply. Of course I don't want to buy junk, but it can be hard to tell because a lot of decent stuff comes out of the Pacific Rim for ridiculously low prices. I'm not necessarily wanting to low ball the upgrade though. I linked to that inexpensive stuff because so far it's the only hardware I've found that looks compatible. Regarding tuners, most likely I'll be the only one looking at the back of the headstock and I won't be happy seeing the old screw holes. Of course the original holes can be filled in, but that has to be done well too. But moving right along....Here's another set of tuners that I think you'll agree are a quality item and may be drop in replacements. They're also "locking" which I prefer: http://www.guitarcenter.com/Gotoh-MLB3-G-3-On-A-Side-Locking-Tuners-6-Pack-360162-i1129470.gc I would seriously consider these if I can confirm they will fit (need to check in the local GC). Regarding the tune-o-matic bridge parts I was not able to find them on stewmac and guitarfetish, but I'll look again. And as to the issues with gold plating I'm tossing around the idea of switching everything over to nickel/chrome. The new Epi Dots come with nickel/chrome parts and they look fine to me. By the way, might it be possible to get OEM parts directly from Epiphone? Thanks again. Edit: I just emailed Epi customer service about sources for parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted June 30, 2013 Share Posted June 30, 2013 "Tone Pro's"... CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victek Posted June 30, 2013 Author Share Posted June 30, 2013 "Tone Pro's"... CB Looks to be a good source for the stop tail and bridge parts, thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluemans335 Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Gotoh's are a big name brand, and good quality. Since you're looking at replacing the tuners and hardware anyways, yes, why not switch to nickel or chrome? Won't tarnish like gold, and it's a little less expensive. Good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dporto Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Your original hardware is most likely Gotoh (Schaller knockoffs on the tuners) - which all the import makers use or have used at some point in time. My '02 DOT has Grovers on it fwiw. The Gotoh stuff is good quality mechanically speaking. As for the Gold plate, it is what it is...anything you get is going to wear like that. For my money, if I were to replace anything I'd go with nickle (I like how it looks better, and it wears better than gold) but to each his own. Good Luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Chrome will withstand tarnishing the best. Nickel will usually hold up better than gold, but it also is susceptible to tarnishing. These are fairly solid generalizations, yet there can be exceptions to the rule. I've had some nickel & gold pieces on various instruments that have held up extremely well, while others have not. The quality of plating can vary tremendously, even on upper tier Gibsons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victek Posted July 7, 2013 Author Share Posted July 7, 2013 I want to thank everyone who responded in this thread and post an update. I was having a slow day earlier this week and went over to GC to noodle around on the guitars. I was surprised to discover new Epi Dots on sale for $329, which is exactly what my used one cost, so I arranged to exchange old for new. They didn't have a vintage sunburst in the store, but it should arrive in a few days. The new guitar addresses all the issues I had with the used one plus it has the upgraded pickups - definitely a more elegant solution compared to all the options I had been considering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluemans335 Posted July 7, 2013 Share Posted July 7, 2013 Glad it worked out. I'd have gone with a new one too myself. No issues out of the starting gate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victek Posted July 8, 2013 Author Share Posted July 8, 2013 Glad it worked out. I'd have gone with a new one too myself. No issues out of the starting gate. Thanks, I generally feel good about it, but it will be better when I have the guitar in hand - it's a little disconcerting buying a guitar that I haven't actually played beforehand, but I'm picking it up at the store in case there are any issues. Then I'll take some pictures and start a NGD thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluemans335 Posted July 8, 2013 Share Posted July 8, 2013 Thanks, I generally feel good about it, but it will be better when I have the guitar in hand - it's a little disconcerting buying a guitar that I haven't actually played beforehand, but I'm picking it up at the store in case there are any issues. Then I'll take some pictures and start a NGD thread It's not scary. I get most of my guitars online. I know how to set them up and usually upgrade PU's, so I can get them dialed in to play and sound the way I want. I've had very few problems with Epi's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJ Posted July 19, 2013 Share Posted July 19, 2013 I'm also not a fan of gold hardware - in good shape or bad. I'll be chroming-out my natural Sheraton II. Chrome will hold-up the best over time. As another poster mentioned, nickel does tarnish easily and gets brown over time. It's not a tough changeout, either. The toughest part being the threaded mounts in the bridge and stop-tail, but I've seen a trick for this that should be pretty simple to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campbell Posted September 3, 2013 Share Posted September 3, 2013 No idea, but... I guess I'm not necessarily happy with the creases on my face, nor is my wife on hers, but they've been come by honestly. We keep 'em clean, I shave and she uses a little makeup, but that's all. m That is so romantic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Zeplin Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 Gotoh's are a big name brand, and good quality. Since you're looking at replacing the tuners and hardware anyways, yes, why not switch to nickel or chrome? Won't tarnish like gold, and it's a little less expensive. Good idea. Nickel will tarnish, chrome will not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Zeplin Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 Just got a used Dot Deluxe VS - beautiful guitar but the gold plated hardware is showing it age. The tuners are especially bad, I guess from the constant handling. I'm looking for "drop in" parts, meaning they will be an exact fit for the current parts. So far I've found these; Tune-o-matic bridge parts: http://www.amazon.com/matic-Bridge-Tailpiece-Gibson-Replacement/dp/B009ALD8EA/ref=pd_cp_MI_0 Tuners: http://www.amazon.com/Tuning-Deluxe-Machine-Tuners-Replacement/dp/B00D12MK0M/ref=sr_1_3?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1372521165&sr=1-3&keywords=gold+tuners+gibson Neither mention Epiphone, but they look like the right parts. Note that the tuner mounting bracket is at a 45 degree angle which matches the original. Regarding tuners I'd actually prefer a locking set, like the grovers, but only if no drilling is required. If anyone confirm these are the correct parts, or point me at a source I'll be grateful. TIA Edit: Here's a pic of the tuners where you can see the angle of the braket/screw hole. Gold hardware always tarnishes eventually. When i changed tuners on an Epi LP to Grovers they were not drop in, the holes needed to be reamed and the existing screw holes were visible. A small price to pay for the better tuners IMO. It was good enough for Jimmy Page, good enough for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Zeplin Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 It has nothing to do with them being made in China; you don't get good quality hardware at those prices. Very cheap materials and workmanship. If you want to replace what you have now because it has issues, you may have the same issues with new cheap stuff (tarnish quickly or not work well). And then you'd want to get something better, and spend even more. There are times in life when buying the cheapest things ends up costing you more. To upgrade what you have will cost around $100 new, less if you can find them used. If that's too much to spend now, save up in the meantime. Your guitar has the old no-name tuners, which Epi no longer uses, having switched to Grover Rotomatics, which are much better quality, robust and reliable. Personally, I'd get Grover Rotomatics (made in China I think). The screw holes won't match up, but who looks at the back of a headstock? I'd MUCH rather upgrade with good tuners than low quality exact duplicates. It's like PU's, sure you can buy PU's that are $15 new, but do you think you'll be happy with them? Or a guitar that's $100 new? If I recall correctly the Grovers used by Epi are made in china and are not as good as the ones we buy here. Epi also used Jinho branded Grover clones which look just like eal Grovers. I suspect that is who makes Chinese Grovers as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluemans335 Posted September 4, 2013 Share Posted September 4, 2013 When i changed tuners on an Epi LP to Grovers they were not drop in, the holes needed to be reamed and the existing screw holes were visible. A small price to pay for the better tuners IMO. +1. Few things as frustrating as cheap tuners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.