Izzy Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Hi all, I had a friend tell me I should do a couple of covers and post them on youtube, which is cool by me but... It is obvious to me that famous people would be okay with bad covers of their work being posted by throngs of wanna-bes, but what about a little known artist with a little known song? I know the right thing is to ask permision and stuff. If you don't get permision, I think I can get away with just saying "for education, not my work the original is this person's..." but...because the music isn't famous and viewers fail to read stuff, I'd be worried that the original wouldn't get its due regard. Am I just being anal retentive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 It isn't permission, it's how much you will pay to use the song. It isn't about regard, it is about how much money somebody is making. If yer YouTube has advertising in or around it, somebody will be unhappy, because somebody is making money while someone eles' song is playing. Performance is different, you can perform for education or parody, but again, it is the advertising that will be the problem. Best to record the cover, copyright the recording on a work, use YouTube as your distribution, try to control the number of hits it gets or just pay up once it makes so many, few thousand is usually the gentlemens agreed upon for works of music. The video thing and the potential for advertising therefore revenue for someone is going to be your problem. I don't know the worst that can happen. I have myself incorporated because the work I do is done in my own home, and I don't want some minor dispute over who copyrighted what when to cost me my house. Unfortunately while jokers like me take ourselves way too not seriously at all, we have to take some things very seriously. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Hi all, I had a friend tell me I should do a couple of covers and post them on youtube, which is cool by me but... It is obvious to me that famous people would be okay with bad covers of their work being posted by throngs of wanna-bes, but what about a little known artist with a little known song? I know the right thing is to ask permision and stuff. If you don't get permision, I think I can get away with just saying "for education, not my work the original is this person's..." but...because the music isn't famous and viewers fail to read stuff, I'd be worried that the original wouldn't get its due regard. Am I just being anal retentive? if the songs by artists we like are published in song books that we buy, aren't we supposed to play them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milod Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Practically speaking there are two factors: First is money. If you're making it from covers, there are various ways you'll pay, such as saloons paying ASCAP-BMI and other nations' versions thereof. OTOH, in today's world those organizations themselves are functionally corrupt when it comes to paying anybody but the big guys - which is the world in which they were created. Still, if you make a bundle from covers, you'll pay. If not, especially if you give credit where it's due, functionally there's little concern of lawsuit. Second, however, is the dark side. Anyone can sue anybody for doggone nearly anything. Civil law, perhaps especially when "intellectual property" is concerned, is a real zoo. Frankly IMHO there's absolutely no protection under law from such lawsuits. So... you do your thing or you hide in a cave. You know that from nursing, for heaven's sake. The citations in such gamesmanship may differ in medical lawsuits or "intellectual property" lawsuits, but the game functionally is the same and frequently has rather little to do with the stated perceived "fault" and more with gaming the system. Should I admit I'm rather cynical thanks to some interesting experiences? m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izzy Posted July 16, 2013 Author Share Posted July 16, 2013 I guess my thing is the emotional attachment. Lawsuits and money asside... I thought it over for a minute and was like, "what if some girl was singing one of my songs!? " I would be very flattered if she said, "this song is by Izzy," though...and if she made mad cash I'd show the copypaper and make a deal and be happy that people like SOMEONE's version of my stuff, but mostly I just wanted to know if as songwritters anyone here felt like maybe it was rude...considering the artist isn't famous and credit isn't obvious and I don't know if I can get a hold of him, and what if he doens't have the rights 'cause he sold his soul to satan?! I'm sure Madonna isn't attached to Like a Virgin and could care less if I make a bad cover, but some of you have little known originals and may have felings attached. Woudln't you feel anything, or does it come down to credit and money ONLY? Yeah. I have a song from a little known artist that I want to cover. I'm not thinking I'd get money for this, of course! If I did I'd look for the guy and give my apologies and ask if he wants me to stop using it and offer him $...I'd NEVER not mention the author even if I could get away with it. It feels very wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sellen Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 "It is obvious to me that famous people would be okay with bad covers of their work being posted by throngs of wanna-bes" S... that's me It's the second time i'm busted in here lately. Last time was when this guy, was it "RS1984" was p.... when nobody cared for their new songs and told us to get back to our posting picks of our wanna-bes guitar. Haven't seen him her after that I did btw hear their music, not for me but it was decent. BTW i'm not badly offended by either of you, it's just the truth and i'm cool with that B) So back to topic I think it's depends what your intention are. If your gonna do a pro version of the songs, using days or weeks to get it perfect. With the intention of making $. You should consider do it legal. Like you say, a less famous artist would of course want something if you start to make money of their songs. Rip this place up a bit with a cool rock"n"roll cover Izzy, that would have been cool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 I guess my thing is the emotional attachment. Lawsuits and money asside... I thought it over for a minute and was like, "what if some girl was singing one of my songs!? " I would be very flattered if she said, "this song is by Izzy," though...and if she made mad cash I'd show the copypaper and make a deal and be happy that people like SOMEONE's version of my stuff, Except it doesn't work that way, copyright stuff is sorted out before someone puts something out there. Or at least it should be worked out ahead of time. You don't know that the artist will be "flattered", they might just be nothing but pissed, and they might have aggressive legal advisors. but mostly I just wanted to know if as songwritters anyone here felt like maybe it was rude... It isn't a matter of rude. Suppose you cover something of mine. Local auto dealer sees/hears your cover of my stuff. Uses it in commercials for his auto dealership, I am rolling through your town on yet another grand tour of these here United Effing States of Effing America, and I see the commercial and hear my music. What do I do? What would you want me to do? considering the artist isn't famous and credit isn't obvious and I don't know if I can get a hold of him, Start with Harry Fox, and then ASCAP/BMI, go from there. If you can't find a rights holder, it is a good possibility it isn't copyrighted. and what if he doens't have the rights 'cause he sold his soul to satan?! You still owe rights stuff to the owners. It really doesn't matter who they are and whether or not we like them, love them, hate them. They are rights. I'm sure Madonna isn't attached to Like a Virgin and could care less if I make a bad cover, After you earn a certain amount, usually calculated by counting copies you have sold of the work that contains her work, she will care. Her business will care. It isn't about Like A Virgin, it's the business, and she is pretty good at it. but some of you have little known originals and may have felings attached. Woudln't you feel anything, or does it come down to credit and money ONLY? Feelings, yes. Very strong feelings. Feelings that would have me hoping that others would do what I do, and secure the proper rights to cover something. The Estate Of John Lennon doesn't need my crummy revenue, but I have to secure the rights to sell a work that has Dear Prudence on it. Same for Max Middleton and his opus Freeway Jam, I have to pay for the right to grind that thing into the 17-year-old-kids-covering-it dust like a marlbl. I would hope others would think and do the same for my work if they were so moved to cover it, and yours was well. Everyones. Yeah. I have a song from a little known artist that I want to cover. I'm not thinking I'd get money for this, of course! If I did I'd look for the guy and give my apologies and ask if he wants me to stop using it and offer him $...I'd NEVER not mention the author even if I could get away with it. It feels very wrong. Get past and over "feeling". Music is business, it is money. When yer done mixing it, you've squished it to a disk, you've been out in the car and it sounds great, you are at yer studio listening to that disc'd up master and it is done and that beer tastes good, about ten minutes after that the feelings get put aside for the business. Sure, you get the feelings out when you listen privately for pleasure, or friends or family, other musos maybe, are sitting there with you listening to stuff and you can point out your proudest parts of this and how ingenious this part is, the feelings remain forever, don't believe anyone that says they don't care about what they wrote and recorded 20 years ago. Hopefully you will still have those feelings in 20 years, but tempered by the business of the business when needed. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izzy Posted July 16, 2013 Author Share Posted July 16, 2013 It isn't a matter of rude. Suppose you cover something of mine. Local auto dealer sees/hears your cover of my stuff. Uses it in commercials for his auto dealership, I am rolling through your town on yet another grand tour of these here United Effing States of Effing America, and I see the commercial and hear my music. What do I do? What would you want me to do? rct Is this why we never hear your stuff? You think we're gonna screw you I guess I'll just stick to copyrighting my music and performing it only, unless I get sorted with the paperwork. I just wonder how all those bad youtube covers...oh wait. You call it a tutorial and then it's protected under the "for education purposes only, no copyright intended" thingie! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 Is this why we never hear your stuff? You think we're gonna screw you naahhh. It's the other people that I've worked with my entire life up until 2005 or so that would be screwing anyone. I don't own anything outright, so I've never been a "post yer clips" kinda guy, always done it the...right way for lack of a better word. The old way I guess. I guess I'll just stick to copyrighting my music and performing it only, unless I get sorted with the paperwork. I just wonder how all those bad youtube covers...oh wait. You call it a tutorial and then it's protected under the "for education purposes only, no copyright intended" thingie! I do think that is true. I don't know how that works exactly, but I know you can get away with a lot in the name of education and parody! rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 I guess my thing is the emotional attachment. Lawsuits and money asside... I thought it over for a minute and was like, "what if some girl was singing one of my songs!? " I would be very flattered if she said, "this song is by Izzy," though...and if she made mad cash I'd show the copypaper and make a deal and be happy that people like SOMEONE's version of my stuff, but mostly I just wanted to know if as songwritters anyone here felt like maybe it was rude...considering the artist isn't famous and credit isn't obvious and I don't know if I can get a hold of him, and what if he doens't have the rights 'cause he sold his soul to satan?! I'm sure Madonna isn't attached to Like a Virgin and could care less if I make a bad cover, but some of you have little known originals and may have felings attached. Woudln't you feel anything, or does it come down to credit and money ONLY? Yeah. I have a song from a little known artist that I want to cover. I'm not thinking I'd get money for this, of course! If I did I'd look for the guy and give my apologies and ask if he wants me to stop using it and offer him $...I'd NEVER not mention the author even if I could get away with it. It feels very wrong. yes do and make full credit to the artist and work you are 'paying tribute' to. sure i think there is a hard fast law about copyright, but ... if the cover is 'tasteful' and not detracting or harmful to the original artist, rather to paying tribute, it's good. it wouldn't be very nice to knock the artist your covering or do it sloppy or drunk or whatever, that might draw the law suit. although, if the original artist insists that you not use the material then you must abide (it's not yours to decide). hell there's a legitimate market for 'cover' versions of songs, that's how songwriters get their songs popularized, by having a great voice sing the song. for example, kris kristoferson (me and bobby mcgee): it took janice joplin's version to popularize the song and make kristoferson tons of money! however, there's the grey area of joplin changing the lyrics/context of the song and claiming credit on the track... it should be credited to kristoferson, hmmm? didn't led zeppelin use willie dixon's lyrics (whole lotta love) and take credit for it and get sued? (that's another ball game. plagerism is taking credit for someone else's work). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 I had a friend who ran a Public Relations company use a section of a song that I arranged (guitar harmony part) where he looped it during commercials he was commission to do. Another guitar playing friend heard it, and knew it was my tracks (we collaborated on a CD for this same guy sister) he told me about it, but I didn't really pursue it,, he did tell me that he contacted this guy (who did the commercial) and said "did you ask if you could use this, you didn't write that, it's not yours to use freely"... his answer was "sue me.." next time he asked me to "help" him out on some recording projects, I decided I would just decline and stay away from the guy all together. had he asked me if he could use it before putting that commercial togther, I would have had no problem with him using it, and I'd not have asked for a dime,, it was just the principle, where he simple could have cared less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretplay Posted July 16, 2013 Share Posted July 16, 2013 It can only be a complement if someone covers your song, if they make money out of it that's another matter. I cover lots of well known songs and put them on You Tube really just as somewhere to store them. I always give credit to the writer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaysEpiphone Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 This one's been thrown around for ever and a day. Some time ago Youtube (and the rest of the internet) started adding advertisement's, plugged in-between video click's, this was supposed to cover the loss of payment to copyright owner's. If I cover a song on my Youtube channel I give all the credit to the song writer and label it as a "cover" on the main caption for the video, I also stay as close to the original as I can so it is as complimentary as can be. Now I do have a working act and I regularly link these video's to potential client's and I'm not selling for a profit. Copyright only run's for 75 years unless a living relative want's to reestablish/renew it for another 75 years and I believe that once the ownership is sold out of the family it can be renewed in other legal ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badbluesplayer Posted July 17, 2013 Share Posted July 17, 2013 Here's how it works. You post something on youtube and nobody will ever hassle you. If you sing somebody else's tune nobody will do anything. If somebody else sings your tune, you won't want to hassle them. Until you need a lawyer to handle your other affairs, you probably won't need one to handle your music rights issues. If you're not making any money, then there's no damages for anybody to be suing each other for. There is no real issue here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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