JuanCarlosVejar Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 check it out : Ren Ferguson gives the tour . JC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahune Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 . Being an old time Guild fan, I loved seeing Ren in this video. Looks like some great potential there. . Thanks JC . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dotneck Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 I saw a couple of these new Guilds at Merlefest. I was impressed. They re well worth seeking out to take a look at... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 4t5 Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 I watched that this past weekend. Quite an operation they have. The current Guilds are excellent, play one if you get a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dchristo Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 pretty cool tour....some of those Guilds look a lot like Gibsons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewilyfool Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 It is a strange feeling, kind of like seeing Kobe Bryant in a Celtic's uniform.....Seeing some of those "new" Guild shapes....I'm guessing that Ren didn't have a non-competition clause with Gibson.....Looks like Guild is giving him a free hand, must be exciting for him!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Thanks for sharing the video JC. Have thought for a long time I should've kept a few of my '70s Guilds! With Ren in the mix, here's hoping for a strong comeback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgemont Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 It is a strange feeling, kind of like seeing Kobe Bryant in a Celtic's uniform.....Seeing some of those "new" Guild shapes....I'm guessing that Ren didn't have a non-competition clause with Gibson.....Looks like Guild is giving him a free hand, must be exciting for him!!! Some guitars may look like Gibsons, but they sound completely different. I was able to A/B/C an OJ reissue, J45TV, and a Guild Orpheum 14-Fret slope shouldered dread a few days ago. Ren took the tone in the complete opposite direction. Very balanced with little emphasis in the bass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewilyfool Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Looks like quality control, fit and finish, etc., are one of the #1 priorities with the new Guilds.....good to hear!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ML1B1D Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Thanks for sharing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aerohead Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Love seeing guitars been built through all the various procedures! I for one am grateful to have members like JC on the forum with his informative and technical posts as well as the latest ebay deals. Thanks JC! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duluthdan Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Outstanding ! Now I just have to find one of these to buy...er, play... :) My son has a birthday coming up.... maybe that's a way to be able to get one on the rack... hmmmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanCarlosVejar Posted August 18, 2013 Author Share Posted August 18, 2013 =) my pleasure . I'm glad you guys enjoyed it ! JC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hogeye Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 This will help to answer a lot of questions as to why Ren left Gibson. The G.M. before the last one was a real piece of work. He was a orange juice maker from Spokane Wa. He was star struck and thought of himself as quite the celebrity. It actually got to the point that he was telling Ren how guitars should be made. This guy couldn't tune a guitar let alone make one. Every time Ren would be sent on a business trip the "O.J." GM would implement his "new" ideas and Ren would come back and try to fix all the damage done. Well this guy was given the boot by Henry. The latest GM thought he would be a rising star in the company and get an invitation to come to Nashville to run things. Ha.... All he did was turn up the dial and pump out as many guitars as possible in the small plant. He gave the engineering staff the go ahead to short cut all of Ren's proceedures to increase production. The guy was so out of touch with good business practices that he forgot to figure out how to increase sales and ended up with inferior guitars, processes, and a lot of unsold guitars.. Ren objected bitterly as he was not consulted on any of the short cut changes.All Gibson/ Montana got out of the deal were a bunch of guitars filling up storage space and all the goofy models they made that nobody wants. Ren left at this point. Now about the video. If you have ever toured the Montana facility you will see many of Ren's ideas and proceedures in his new plant. This is amazing as he isn't building a brand as much as he is building a guitar exactly as it should be built. Many of the tools and fixtures are exactly like the ones he designed for Montana. In fact the tour is almost exactly like the Montana plant. The big difference is that the Guild plant is run by Ren and is making guitars as he designed them with tooling he designed. No short cuts. No managers trying to cut costs and speed things up.This is exactly what made Gibson/ Montana such a success in the begining. Ren's dream without the interference from the bean counters. No egos here just good people building great guitars. Gibson/Montana has lost the direction and they will never get it back. I will start selling my Gibson's and start buying Guild as soon as possible. I'm not buying and selling Gibson and Guild. I'm buying Ren and his vision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeljohnr Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 Gibson/Montana has lost the direction and they will never get it back. I will start selling my Gibson's and start buying Guild as soon as possible. I'm not buying and selling Gibson and Guild. I'm buying Ren and his vision. This I do not understand. If the Gibson's you own had Ren's hand in them, why dump them? It seems you would want to hold onto the great examples of instruments they are. Also, in the past you really defended the guys at Gibson as friends and extremely talented makers of instruments. Don't you view your statements above as kind of contradictory to your prior postings? I'm not trying to stir the pot or poke you with sticks, I'm just trying to understand your logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahune Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 This will help to answer a lot of questions as to why Ren left Gibson. .... Thanks Hogeye. I heard a bit of this recently, but you've made a clearer picture of what was going on at Bozeman when Ren left. To Ren's credit, none of the this was played out in the press. To think that the whole idea behind Bozeman was to bring more quality and credibility back to Gibson Acoustic, only to have all that effort and credibility thrown out in order save money with cheaper methods - very sad. Personally, in the recent purchases I've made, I can say that I've had to look through a number of guitars to find one or two that fit my expectations. Quality seems fine to me, but there sometimes seems like a lot of variability in sound/tone. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dotneck Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 The latest GM thought he would be a rising star in the company and get an invitation to come to Nashville to run things. Ha.... All he did was turn up the dial and pump out as many guitars as possible in the small plant. He gave the engineering staff the go ahead to short cut all of Ren's proceedures to increase production. The guy was so out of touch with good business practices that he forgot to figure out how to increase sales and ended up with inferior guitars, processes, and a lot of unsold guitars.. Ren objected bitterly as he was not consulted on any of the short cut changes.All Gibson/ Montana got out of the deal were a bunch of guitars filling up storage space and all the goofy models they made that nobody wants. Ren left at this point. Its a shame too..because now Dennis (the GM) is gone too. And the new Guild custom shop guitars ARE quite nice and well worth looking at... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgemont Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 So what is the current state of Gibson? With Ren off to Guild, where does that leave production and QC? Better, worse, same? If I am to buy a Gibson, would it be wise to buy one during the Ren's tenure or would it be safe to buy new? Some on this forum have mentioned a bit to tone variability within specific models. Would this be due to changes within production? I am not trying to stir the pot, but am curious. As a big Guild fan, I am used to this type of discussion as their production and QC has always come into question as the factory has moved several times in the last 15 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewilyfool Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 I think Hogeye is pulling your leg a little.....lol....this is his way of suggesting that a post about Guild should not appear on the Gibson forum....even if it does feature out beloved Ren. Hogeye, can you tell us which shortcuts were taken without Ren's knowledge that he got so upset about? Wasn't this the time of the laminated fretboards and bridges? Was that part of it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Moto Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 What I'd like to know is does (or will) Ren's influence extend beyond the custom shop to all the standard Guild models? The Orpheums look great but they're a little pricy for me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hogeye Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 This I do not understand. If the Gibson's you own had Ren's hand in them, why dump them? It seems you would want to hold onto the great examples of instruments they are. Also, in the past you really defended the guys at Gibson as friends and extremely talented makers of instruments. Don't you view your statements above as kind of contradictory to your prior postings? I'm not trying to stir the pot or poke you with sticks, I'm just trying to understand your logic. I just feel that the Montana plant has no direction. They have no luthier and no management that understands guitars and it seems like no willingness to rectify the situation. I'm pretty heavily vested in Gibson instruments and would use the money to buy the new Guilds.I just don't have the resources to have them all. I own two Guilds fron the middle 70's and have always been fond of them. The people that know me know I was the biggest Guild dealer in the intermountain west in the 70's. I guess I just feel that they are at the begining of something really special and I would like to be a part of that. I will sell my Ray Whitley and buy a Kopp "Trail Boss". I will sell a couple of other guitars and get a John Walker J-35 and then it's off to Guild. I will keep my Gibson 12th fret '45. It was designed and built by Lynn Bundy. This is a very special guitar and by far the best of my collection. The rest will find new homes. I think that Ren has finally found the place where he can, and is building the guitars he was meant to build without all the drama that goes on in Bozeman. If ever there is a history of the Montana plant the string of incompetent GMs will bring light to all the problems.Its truly amazing how they got anything done at all. I guess that it's testimony to the great people that go to work every day to make the guitars they make. They are some of the finest folks I know and they are being betrayed by poor management. The last two GMs are the latest in a string of totally incompetent people that have tried to run the division. There have been 9 GMs that I can remember probably 3 or so I can't remember. One lasted 4 years and another 6 years the rest managed 1 or 2 year stints.Hell one of them was busted for selling cocaine way back in the 90's. Thru all of this the good folks just come to work and make the best guitars they can. Many of the most tallented people have left. Kevin Kopp, John Walker, Eric Lang(waverly tuners), Dan Roberts (Santa Cruz), Ren Ferguson and many others to numerous to mention have gone on to have brilliant careers. I don't look down on all the great guitars Gibson has made under Ren's tenure I just think that for the most part they could have been even better and it looks like we may have a chance to see that in the "New" Guild guitars. I hope that if Montana gets another chance and they actually get a decent GM they might be able to attract a new luthier as well and all will be fine again. We will have to wait and see what happens. If Henry would ask Dave Berryman to take the plant for a couple of years he could do wonders for them like he did for Epiphone. This is just my opinion and others see it differently. Your questions are understandable. I'm not jumping ship I'm movin' on. I still have a lot of information I can pass on so I will hang out here and see if I can help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeljohnr Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 I just feel that the Montana plant has no direction. They have no luthier and no management that understands guitars and it seems like no willingness to rectify the situation. I'm pretty heavily vested in Gibson instruments and would use the money to buy the new Guilds.I just don't have the resources to have them all. I own two Guilds fron the middle 70's and have always been fond of them. The people that know me know I was the biggest Guild dealer in the intermountain west in the 70's. I guess I just feel that they are at the begining of something really special and I would like to be a part of that. I will sell my Ray Whitley and buy a Kopp "Trail Boss". I will sell a couple of other guitars and get a John Walker J-35 and then it's off to Guild. I will keep my Gibson 12th fret '45. It was designed and built by Lynn Bundy. This is a very special guitar and by far the best of my collection. The rest will find new homes. I think that Ren has finally found the place where he can, and is building the guitars he was meant to build without all the drama that goes on in Bozeman. If ever there is a history of the Montana plant the string of incompetent GMs will bring light to all the problems.Its truly amazing how they got anything done at all. I guess that it's testimony to the great people that go to work every day to make the guitars they make. They are some of the finest folks I know and they are being betrayed by poor management. The last two GMs are the latest in a string of totally incompetent people that have tried to run the division. There have been 9 GMs that I can remember probably 3 or so I can't remember. One lasted 4 years and another 6 years the rest managed 1 or 2 year stints.Hell one of them was busted for selling cocaine way back in the 90's. Thru all of this the good folks just come to work and make the best guitars they can. Many of the most tallented people have left. Kevin Kopp, John Walker, Eric Lang(waverly tuners), Dan Roberts (Santa Cruz), Ren Ferguson and many others to numerous to mention have gone on to have brilliant careers. I don't look down on all the great guitars Gibson has made under Ren's tenure I just think that for the most part they could have been even better and it looks like we may have a chance to see that in the "New" Guild guitars. I hope that if Montana gets another chance and they actually get a decent GM they might be able to attract a new luthier as well and all will be fine again. We will have to wait and see what happens. If Henry would ask Dave Berryman to take the plant for a couple of years he could do wonders for them like he did for Epiphone. This is just my opinion and others see it differently. Your questions are understandable. I'm not jumping ship I'm movin' on. I still have a lot of information I can pass on so I will hang out here and see if I can help. Thank you. That was very informative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry K Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 We have gradually become aware of some disarray at Gibson. On the other hand they are cranking out guitars with the same people, equipment, computer programs, and materials (At least I suppose the materials are the same. I think Ren used to source the wood. I wonder what happens now?). The guitars seem about the same. There have been a few mis-steps, I suppose like that Swallow pickguard... and of course the mess they made with producing so much that now they can't make special orders... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry K Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 Funny, I thought I heard that places like Japan and Europe would take all of Gibson acoustic's output, if they could. Couldn't they absorb some of the bumper crop of guitars Dennis produced? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smurfbird Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 I'm confused. I've been reading all along that this has been the golden age for Gibson. I just played a 2013 J-45 standard that was among the finest I've tried out. When people on this board suggested Gibson wasn't doing the right thing with the laminated bridges and such, I remember them being shouted down. With all due respect, this all reads very mercurial. I should hope Guild makes fantastic guitars in the future. But aren't we just comparing possibilities of things to come right now? Please clarify if someone can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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