jaygl Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 My new 1977 S-G Standard. All original except for the blank TRC I installed. Amazing condition, never any breaks or repairs, just the typical buckle rash on the back. PU's are the Tar Backs. Unreal playability and dirty, gritty, and crunchy vintage sound. Thanks again to those who aided in authenticating this beauty! With her sister, my 2011 50th Anniversary S-G Standard 24. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgplayers Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 Nice looking S-Gs. Congrats, I am a big fan of blank TRCs also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted September 30, 2013 Share Posted September 30, 2013 My heartfelt congratulations on your 1977 S-G! Indeed it makes a nice pair with the 50th Anniversary 2011 SG Standard 24. I am curious how you manage the different positions of nuts and bridges. Accustomed to the 1978 model, I sometimes happen to misfret notes and chords on my Frank Zappa "Roxys" and my Supra because it all is a bit farther out on the left. :unsure: With respect to blindly finding frets, my 1978 S-G's is closer to a Les Paul, a Strat and a Tele than the other SG models. If you might have the time to open up the electric cavity and measure the tone pot resistance values, I am very curious what they read. You posted here http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/105835-advice-needed-on-1977-sg-standard-headstock-pic/page__view__findpost__p__1431230 that it's almost as if the pickups would take a breath after string attack. This makes me suspect that the tone pots are 100 kOhms ones which load down the pickup resonance drastically (which means a time lag of attack, too, due to the altered phase response). I replaced them with 500 kOhms audio tapered ones, and so the pickups' sound is open, clear and with a distinctive bite. When wanting the "old" sound, I get it by tweaking the tone pots down to about 4...5. Then they tend to breathe more than to cut through... Please post here as soon as you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaygl Posted September 30, 2013 Author Share Posted September 30, 2013 Hey Capmaster, I'm getting a reading of 111 on one and 112 on the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 That's what I assumed. Try 500 kOhms audio taper, and you will believe you hear another guitar. It took me years to find out. Many of my pals in the early 1980s cutted the tone cap connections of their Gibsons which made me research - and I stopped wondering why. By the way, the electric compartment of yours looks original, from the tape on the pot contact boards to the colours of the cable isolations. The only difference to the stock status of mine is the TS jack with a plastic housing. This seems to be the same type as used in my ca. 1973 L6-S. My S-G came stock with a Switchcraft jack, but its hot contact tended to short out the signal by touching the shielding foil on the cover. Since use of tape worked only for a short period, I removed the foil. I think I shouldn't have done this and instead switch to a jack like in yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahune Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 . She's beautiful and looks in great shape. Congrats. . B) . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaygl Posted October 1, 2013 Author Share Posted October 1, 2013 That's what I assumed. Try 500 kOhms audio taper, and you will believe you hear another guitar. It took me years to find out. Many of my pals in the early 1980s cutted the tone cap connections of their Gibsons which made me research - and I stopped wondering why. By the way, the electric compartment of yours looks original, from the tape on the pot contact boards to the colours of the cable isolations. The only difference to the stock status of mine is the TS jack with a plastic housing. This seems to be the same type as used in my ca. 1973 L6-S. My S-G came stock with a Switchcraft jack, but its hot contact tended to short out the signal by touching the shielding foil on the cover. Since use of tape worked only for a short period, I removed the foil. I think I shouldn't have done this and instead switch to a jack like in yours. I love the sound of her as she is right now, so is it worth the pot change to the 500k 's? What kind of tonal difference will I hear capmaster? Also, what kind of pots....gibson or a different brand? Thanks bigkahune....shes a real beauty for sure. She is a one piece body. Is this typical of the era, or, did I just get lucky? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted October 1, 2013 Share Posted October 1, 2013 Nice and in really good shape too.. awesome score.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaygl Posted October 1, 2013 Author Share Posted October 1, 2013 Nice and in really good shape too.. awesome score.. Thanks man....I'm really happy with her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff-7 Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 I love the sound of her as she is right now, so is it worth the pot change to the 500k 's? What kind of tonal difference will I hear capmaster? Also, what kind of pots....gibson or a different brand? Thanks bigkahune....shes a real beauty for sure. She is a one piece body. Is this typical of the era, or, did I just get lucky? If you like it I wouldn't bother messing with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 I love the sound of her as she is right now, so is it worth the pot change to the 500k 's? What kind of tonal difference will I hear capmaster? Also, what kind of pots....gibson or a different brand? Thanks bigkahune....shes a real beauty for sure. She is a one piece body. Is this typical of the era, or, did I just get lucky? The sound will be brighter and more distinctive with a clearly defined attack. Since my S-G just didn't cut through, I had given up playing her and used my Weimann Blues Bird instead, a very rare German-made ES guitar with mahogany through neck and Seymour-Duncan P90s stock. Later I found out the tone pot problem of my S-G, solved it, and things never were the same since then. Also refer to these links: http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/104877-neck-pick-up-muddy-sound-on-bass-strings/ http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/105410-norlin-gibsons-check-for-tone-pots-resistances/ Using Gibson 500 kOhms audio taper short shaft pots is a good idea. Remember that tweaking the "new" tone pots down to about 5...4 will provide the "old" tone. In case you want an impression what the possible change would be, just take virtually any electric guitar except stock-equipped Gibsons made from circa 1970 to circa 1988. Turn down tone controls to about 5...4 (or 6...5 on Fenders), play and listen. Then crank the tone controls up to ten, play and listen again. This comparison will give you an idea what will happen to the sound of your 1977 S-G. Except the Frank Zappa "Roxy" SGs I got to know including the both of mine, I never saw a one-piece bodied SG. So I think you are a lucky one. They were and still are made of two or three pieces like my 1978 Standard in most cases, and I know of a seven-piece Gibson USA SG body. The neck of yours could be a one-piece as the back of the headstock implies - is it right? They were typically made of three stripes during that period like mine, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaygl Posted October 2, 2013 Author Share Posted October 2, 2013 The sound will be brighter and more distinctive with a clearly defined attack. Since my S-G just didn't cut through, I had given up playing her and used my Weimann Blues Bird instead, a very rare German-made ES guitar with mahogany through neck and Seymour-Duncan P90s stock. Later I found out the tone pot problem of my S-G, solved it, and things never were the same since then. Also refer to these links: http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/104877-neck-pick-up-muddy-sound-on-bass-strings/ http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/105410-norlin-gibsons-check-for-tone-pots-resistances/ Using Gibson 500 kOhms audio taper short shaft pots is a good idea. Remember that tweaking the "new" tone pots down to about 5...4 will provide the "old" tone. In case you want an impression what the possible change would be, just take virtually any electric guitar except stock-equipped Gibsons made from circa 1970 to circa 1988. Turn down tone controls to about 5...4 (or 6...5 on Fenders), play and listen. Then crank the tone controls up to ten, play and listen again. This comparison will give you an idea what will happen to the sound of your 1977 S-G. Except the Frank Zappa "Roxy" SGs I got to know including the both of mine, I never saw a one-piece bodied SG. So I think you are a lucky one. They were and still are made of two or three pieces like my 1978 Standard in most cases, and I know of a seven-piece Gibson USA SG body. The neck of yours could be a one-piece as the back of the headstock implies - is it right? They were typically made of three stripes during that period like mine, too. The neck is 3 piece with the veloute at the headstock..Ill try out the tone sound test today and let you know what I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 The neck is 3 piece with the veloute at the headstock..Ill try out the tone sound test today and let you know what I think. Ah, OK - the number of stripes wasn't clearly to be seen on the pics. Just assumed it to be possible due to the one piece body which honestly did surprise me. Volute as well as a 14° headstock angle are period correct. By the way, I generally like blank truss rod covers over engraved ones, and on Les Paul and L6S guitars as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaygl Posted October 3, 2013 Author Share Posted October 3, 2013 So far, after many A/B sound tests between my two S-G's, I am loving the 77's sound. It's compression is tighter and smoother even though it's highs are less clearly defined than my 2011's 57 classics. I'm sure it has to do with the tone pots and the tar backs. She has breath and crunch that brings a smile to my ears...... My final test will be at rehearsal this weekend where I see how she cuts through the mix of a 5 piece band. If she cuts nicely, I will be leaving the 100 K's in her capmaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 The reason why I love my 1978 S-G with normal 500 k tone pots is her better tone definition compared to '57 Classics in humbucker operation like those of my Frank Zappa "Roxy" SGs. This is due to the ceramic magnets of her tarbacks I think which eat up less tone since they have zero eddy currents - they are the only magnets being electrical isolators. Moreover, they cause less string pull and so leave more of a pure tone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM2112 Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Congratulations!!! Very cool to find a model that age to compare to today's model. HNGD!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sellen Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 Congrats 70's sg are badass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaygl Posted October 4, 2013 Author Share Posted October 4, 2013 If I do decide to change out the tone pots to 500 k's, will I have to change the caps as well? Or should I just change the caps as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capmaster Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 If I do decide to change out the tone pots to 500 k's, will I have to change the caps as well? Or should I just change the caps as well? It's only a matter of taste since there's no need to change them. When the tone controls are fully opened up to 10, the capacitor value doesn't matter anymore with 500 kOhms tone pots as is the case with next to all guitars. This on the other hand gives you enough room for nearly any experiment to check out caps and their effect. I did it in extreme so to say and use .0047 µF (4.7 nF) to achieve a resonance at the highest fundamentals, i. e. upper frets of the E1st when turned to zero. I read here: http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/105708-the-abyss-of-cap-discussion/page__view__findpost__p__1432829 that Eric Clapton got his "woman" tone out of his SG by using .015 µF for the bridge PU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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