Wait, what century are we living in…?

[charlie brown]

I'm sorry CB, I love you guitar brutha, but please please please provide some statistical evidence of "receivers" outnumbering "providers". Please. Or anyone else for that matter.

 

This seems to be the current dinner table wisdom in Amerikur, and I'm damned if I can find any numbers even remotely close to even being able to forecast such a situation in my lifetime.

 

rct

 

 

Well, they do, in my area, and county! But, it's one of the more liberal areas in the

state, when it comes to welfare. We seem to have nearly no "middle class" anymore,

and either welfare recipiants, or ultra-rich (from the oil boom, and large land owners).

Besides, statistical evidence is only as good as what's recorded. A LOT of these folks

live off that particular grid.

 

http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/2012-12-29/government-dependents-outnumber-those-private-sector-jobs-11-us-states

 

http://benswann.com/welfare-recipients-in-new-york-can-now-earn-more-than-teachers/

 

There are plenty of articles, and information, Government and otherwise, available,

if you're really interested?

 

CB

[BobF_]

I'm sorry CB, I love you guitar brutha, but please please please provide some statistical evidence of "receivers" outnumbering "providers". Please. Or anyone else for that matter.

 

This seems to be the current dinner table wisdom in Amerikur, and I'm damned if I can find any numbers even remotely close to even being able to forecast such a situation in my lifetime.

 

rct

 

 

I'm not CB, but ...

 

The IRS has all of the data available for you to peruse. What percentage, net, actually have part of their earnings going to the gubment?

 

And don't get me started on "refundable tax credits" - credits that allow someone to receive more in refunds than they paid in to begin with. This kind of crap is everywhere.

[rct]

Here's some welfare statistics.

 

It's important to note this whole "living off the grid" thing when talking about this that it isn't possible to "live off the grid" and be an official taker.

 

If you read what Commerce says, there is some serious exaggeration going on. So if you accept that reality is somewhere even close to the middle, it's still a whole lot of exaggeration going on!

 

http://www.statisticbrain.com/welfare-statistics/

 

rct

[rct]

And along with it, a very brief explanation as to how the whole phrase came about:

 

http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/deathspiral.asp

 

rct

[zigzag]

Yeah, this is crazy. I love you, too, CB, but you make a misleading statement and then ask rct to prove it. First, just because you don't work in the private sector doesn't mean that you're a taker. There are a huge number of government jobs, and believe it or not, most of them are necessary and some of those people do actually work. Some of those are teachers in our public school system. Secondly, I have worked pretty hard for around 40 years, and I paid into social security and medicare. That is my money. I'm no taker. Part of the problem with social security and medicare is that there are so many baby boomers who are retiring that there aren't enough people working to pay for those programs. And there ARE abusers in our system. Most people want to work, and most people expect to be able to survive on a 40 hour a week income, as they should. We need more job opportunities and more people working to make this system work. You also need to examine the culture of those who have become disenfranchised in our form of capitalist system. A lot of people don't stand a chance. You also need to look at the poor in this country and try to understand their culture, their mentality. I live in eastern South Carolina. Over 25% of those who live in the rural part of this state live in "poverty" and have no chance of being integrated into the capitalist culture that you and I are a part of. It's like living in the third world. And just so you'll know, SC is solidly a red state. All of the "southern democrats" are dead, and the real democrats with democratic ideals are an endangered species who cower in dark corners and meet in secret. (LOL)

[quapman]

it's still a whole lot of exaggeration going on!

 

 

 

rct

 

 

Heathen!

We must have exaggeration.

It's the only way we can perpetuate hate.

[BobF_]

Here's some welfare statistics.

 

It's important to note this whole "living off the grid" thing when talking about this that it isn't possible to "live off the grid" and be an official taker.

 

If you read what Commerce says, there is some serious exaggeration going on. So if you accept that reality is somewhere even close to the middle, it's still a whole lot of exaggeration going on!

 

http://www.statistic...are-statistics/

 

rct

 

"Welfare" isn't the only way to be a recipient. In *my* book, anybody that doesn't contribute is a recipient.

[rct]

"Welfare" isn't the only way to be a recipient. In *my* book, anybody that doesn't contribute is a recipient.

 

Ok. Just exactly how does *your* book determine who does and who doesn't contribute?

 

rct

[BobF_]

Ok. Just exactly how does *your* book determine who does and who doesn't contribute?

 

rct

 

IRS statistics (to close the loop)

[rct]

IRS statistics (to close the loop)

 

If I wanted to see such statistics, what would I look for? Contributors vs non-contributors? People who pay taxes and people who don't? I'm not sure about this, because your earlier post referred to "refundable tax credits", and that's a pretty tough thing to do. And if someone is doing that, they put in in the first place.

 

School me. Somebody. More Takers Than Contributors. Show me, somebody, anybody, how this is, and where it is. 350 million Americans give or take. That's 175 million and one Americans, give or take, that are not working and putting in. That's just the roughest of the rough numbers, but there it is.

 

rct

[milod]

Actually there are a lot of "misunderstandings" when it comes to economic status.

 

And of course, a lot has to do with simply not living under similar conditions. For example, I know plenty of folks who have no home air conditioning and use wood stoves for heat, may lack potable water except for that hauled 30 miles or more from town, only recently had telephone landline and still no cell phones, and unreliable electricity - and they do not consider themselves "deprived."

 

Some of these same folks would be considered "large landowners" with a couple three or four sections (square miles) of dry prairie to make a living from land that grows enough feed for one cow/calf per 100 acres. That's only 25 cows basically on four square miles of high plains prairie. That ain't enough to make any kind of a living. So... figure 10 square miles, some with some water... perhaps 60-100 cows, taxes, production costs, mortality, etc... and a wife working in town to pay monthly bills.

 

The difficulty with some people in the U.S. - and race is not relevant, as proven in the nation's military - is that they are unprepared for most work due to inability to speak, read and write standard English, do basic arithmetic, or have willingness to do work paid at their level of ability.

 

If there's an argument for some kind of national required "military" service, it might be to train otherwise unskilled people into the basics that they should have received through the eighth grade education of a century ago.

 

Add to that how various government agencies and public employee unions seem to enjoy encouraging folks to game the system, and I do think there are major cultural difficulties that may actually have been less of a problem immediately after WWII. That is, in a "root hog or die" economic system, folks actually have a tendency to find some sort of work. That is, indeed, proven in third world circumstances. The socialist trends in "European" culture, however, has sought to provide a "safety net" both out of compassion and concern of revolution, depending on a number of factors.

 

The difficulty arises when laws are so complex that it's easy to learn how to "game" the system and create a subculture that lives on such games. Then one finds an inability among those who do culturally see gaming the system as a normal way of living as opposed to a more traditional "work for pay and live on it" culture.

 

Complexity in "European" cultures adds a degree of feeling that one absolutely must be tolerant of other cultures and belief systems even up to the point where proclamations of antagonism are replaced by actions to destroy the majority culture.

 

I think that latter is why in Europe and the UK, especially, is apparently more concerned about folks carrying their passports who want to destroy the nation that gave them the passport and even the economic system allowing the wherewithall to travel to kill and train to return home to kill.

 

Again, I guess I tend to kind of envy the Asian cultures that functionally forbid immigration on grounds of protecting their culture and its internal evolution to meet world political and economic challenges.

 

m

[charlie brown]

Yeah, this is crazy. I love you, too, CB, but you make a misleading statement and then ask rct to prove it. First, just because you don't work in the private sector doesn't mean that you're a taker. There are a huge number of government jobs, and believe it or not, most of them are necessary and some of those people do actually work. Some of those are teachers in our public school system. Secondly, I have worked pretty hard for around 40 years, and I paid into social security and medicare. That is my money. I'm no taker. Part of the problem with social security and medicare is that there are so many baby boomers who are retiring that there aren't enough people working to pay for those programs. And there ARE abusers in our system. Most people want to work, and most people expect to be able to survive on a 40 hour a week income, as they should. We need more job opportunities and more people working to make this system work. You also need to examine the culture of those who have become disenfranchised in our form of capitalist system. A lot of people don't stand a chance. You also need to look at the poor in this country and try to understand their culture, their mentality. I live in eastern South Carolina. Over 25% of those who live in the rural part of this state live in "poverty" and have no chance of being integrated into the capitalist culture that you and I are a part of. It's like living in the third world. And just so you'll know, SC is solidly a red state. All of the "southern democrats" are dead, and the real democrats with democratic ideals are an endangered species who cower in dark corners and meet in secret. (LOL)

 

Well, all this "Love" is comforting. But, I wasn't challenging RCT to prove anything.

It was HE who wanted me to prove, my statement. Which I still stand by, based on what I've seen,

around my area, and what I've read as well. Of course not everyone that isn't working is a leach?

I never once said that! What I said, was WHEN the "receivers" outnumber the providers, that's when the

resentment, and (too often) hostilities ensue. "Statistics" while viable, aren't always accurate,

one, and/or tell the whole story. Some of which, you've illumitated in your examples. I too,

worked for decades, paying into SS and Medicare. I expect to be able to collect on both, as you

say, it's "my money!" That's not an "entitlement," but earned income, and paid insurance.

 

As to people having "no choice?" This is America...anyone can do what they set out to do, IF they're

willing to get the right kind of education, work hard, take their share of knocks, in the process,

without giving up, and being determined enough, to do so. I can't get hired, now, to save my soul,

due to (mostly) my age, and medical status. But, there are plenty of opportunities, to make (legal)

money, pay taxes, etc., on my own, if I choose to, and/or need to. So, I'm sorry guys, I don't buy

into this "victim" mentality, or the "entitlement" mentality, that seems to have overtaken way too

many people, these days. Why would anyone let the "Government" get that far up their Bum, as to

become dependent on them, in the first place. Sure, a lot of jobs are gone, forever, and competition

for those that are left is fierce. What else is new? That has been going on, forever! This is nothing

new. It just that jobs now tend to be either "service" oriented, or "tech" oriented. A 40 hour week,

at current salaries, CAN BE harder to live on, in certain situations, but not impossible, unless you buy

into Madison Avenue's idea of Success, and how you "should" be living (AKA Well Beyond your means)!

 

I just feel like the pardigm has shifted, with a LOT of help from the Goverment, to less productive,

and more "entitlement." I HOPE I'm wrong, or that it will shift back, eventually? For our citizen's

and country's sake. There ARE still, a LOT of great people here, who DO work hard, probably harder

than they should, actually...just to make ends meet, and provide for their loved ones. My own family

is full of those types, both in middle income and higher income situations. Their drive, education,

and ("take no prisoners") Attitude, serves them well. But, they're also compassionate, as well.

 

So...??? Interesting discussion, though...thanks!

 

CB

[BobF_]

If I wanted to see such statistics, what would I look for? Contributors vs non-contributors? People who pay taxes and people who don't? I'm not sure about this, because your earlier post referred to "refundable tax credits", and that's a pretty tough thing to do. And if someone is doing that, they put in in the first place.

 

School me. Somebody. More Takers Than Contributors. Show me, somebody, anybody, how this is, and where it is. 350 million Americans give or take. That's 175 million and one Americans, give or take, that are not working and putting in. That's just the roughest of the rough numbers, but there it is.

 

rct

 

A) Refundable credits can (and do) result in refunds to taxpayers greater than their original withholdings. One does not need to take advantage of these refundable credits to be a net recipient.

 

B close-paren The IRS provides mountains of data sliced/diced nine ways from Sunday. You'll probably not find report headings labeled "Recipient" and/or "Contributor". I'm sure you can manage an understanding by paying attention to net flow of cash.

 

If you *really* want to know, you'll expend a bit of effort and learn. If you aren't already aware of the Fed revenue vs spending status, then I doubt you really want to know. At any rate, requesting spoon-fed data, and challenging every tid-bit you are presented with along the way, is an old and tired approach to squelching Truth.

[quapman]

At any rate, requesting spoon-fed data, and challenging every tid-bit you are presented with along the way, is an old and tired approach to squelching Truth.

 

 

Are you suggesting we just accept all tid-bits as fact?

 

Cuz lots of people do like to spew opinions as if they were in fact, fact.

[BobF_]

Yeah, this is crazy. I love you, too, CB, but you make a misleading statement and then ask rct to prove it. First, just because you don't work in the private sector doesn't mean that you're a taker. There are a huge number of government jobs, and believe it or not, most of them are necessary and some of those people do actually work. Some of those are teachers in our public school system. Secondly, I have worked pretty hard for around 40 years, and I paid into social security and medicare. That is my money. I'm no taker. Part of the problem with social security and medicare is that there are so many baby boomers who are retiring that there aren't enough people working to pay for those programs. And there ARE abusers in our system. Most people want to work, and most people expect to be able to survive on a 40 hour a week income, as they should. We need more job opportunities and more people working to make this system work. You also need to examine the culture of those who have become disenfranchised in our form of capitalist system. A lot of people don't stand a chance. You also need to look at the poor in this country and try to understand their culture, their mentality. I live in eastern South Carolina. Over 25% of those who live in the rural part of this state live in "poverty" and have no chance of being integrated into the capitalist culture that you and I are a part of. It's like living in the third world. And just so you'll know, SC is solidly a red state. All of the "southern democrats" are dead, and the real democrats with democratic ideals are an endangered species who cower in dark corners and meet in secret. (LOL)

 

I recently discovered an entire network of government employees in my state assigned to 'roadside beautification'. Necessary? Certainly a lower priority than roads and bridges for anybody with any common sense ... yet roadside beautification remains fully funded while taxpayers are threatened with failing bridges if they don't vote for more DOT taxes. Just one teeny-tiny example of complete failure in fiscal responsibility. No priorities, with tax authority delegated to agencies, each looking out for their own slice.

 

I say if there are enough government employees to be statistically significant, then there are too many.

 

Oh, it's not about Dem or Rep. It's about liberalism, which is NOT synonymous with democrat

 

No, gubment employees aren't automatically in the category of "recipient" ... nor are they automatically cherished for their selfless contributions to society. They are what they are ...

 

Do think about it though. A gubment employee is paid with tax dollars. So if 15% of workers are gubment employees, then the entire shebang is funded by the other 85%.

[BobF_]

Are you suggesting we just accept all tid-bits as fact?

 

Cuz lots of people do like to spew opinions as if they were in fact, fact.

 

Not at all. I would prefer thoughtful challenges to tid-bits when someone doesn't agree with them. Empty challenges to tid-bits you don't like aren't really challenges at all.

[rct]

A) Refundable credits can (and do) result in refunds to taxpayers greater than their original withholdings. One does not need to take advantage of these refundable credits to be a net recipient.

 

The following are refundable credits, that is, it is entirely possible that the taxpayer could get a refund greater than their credit. Possible. So, please look at the qualifiers for these and tell me how many are doing this successfully, because again, I just don't see it.

 

Eearned Income Credit - http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=2505

Here is where the budget policy guys explain it, and give some figures on who and how many are getting it.

 

Excess Social Security Credit - http://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc608.html

If you paid too much SS tax you get back the difference.

 

Additional Child Tax Credit - http://www.irs.gov/publications/p972/ar02.html

The fine print is all right there. Nobody is getting rich off this.

 

Health Coverage Credit - https://www.1040.com/federal-taxes/credits/health-coverage-credit/

Have a look at requirement 1. You will join the other 43 guys that are eligible for this.

 

American Opportunity Credit - Higher Education that you pay for yourself. I've done this. You pay a lot for your education without borrowing money and you get part of it back. Am I a taker because instead of as sdeeping us in debt we pay for our education and get a tax break? Would you rather we waited for the big fed bailout of all the defaulted education lending?

 

If you *really* want to know, you'll expend a bit of effort and learn.

 

Theres some effort up there chief. I have already done this. Perhaps you will spend some time reading and learning instead of repeating. Read that stuff. Nobody, NOBODY is "taking" more than making with these things that you put up here.

 

If you aren't already aware of the Fed revenue vs spending status, then I doubt you really want to know. At any rate, requesting spoon-fed data, and challenging every tid-bit you are presented with along the way, is an old and tired approach to squelching Truth.

 

Has it ever occured to you that I am intensely aware of Fed revenue vs spending status, and that may be why I'm asking you to put something up here that approaches what you call "Truth"?

 

I put some stuff up. Read it. Counter it with the data showing the millions upon millons making hundreds of millions by not working and just using "refundable tax credits". That would be a start.

 

rct

[rct]

Do think about it though. A gubment employee is paid with tax dollars. So if 15% of workers are gubment employees, then the entire shebang is funded by the other 85%.

 

I pay more than twice as much for my health insurance as a private corporate worker.

 

My pay days are scheduled such that federal employees pay more per pound in taxes than any other working strata.

 

I pay the same social security taxes as everyone else, plus I pay for my own retirement plan, plus I put into my own 401K if I choose to. The match for feds is no greater than any private corporation.

 

My group life insurance is, on average, about 2 times more than a single individual can get without a group rate.

 

My retirement age is pushed back and further complicated each and every time there is change to the current system. I will have worked more than 42 years when I can actually retire without "penalty". Remember, "penalty" for taking my money, the money I put into my retirement along with everyone elses social security.

 

Every contractor the government hires in an effort to demonstrate their "cost cutting" for the taxpayer has 1.6 times the daily overhead rate that a regular old fed does. "cost cutting" costs you the taxpayer 1.6 times as much as not "cost cutting".

 

Oh, I could go on a long time, but I think I'll stop there. Maybe you could put some more stuff up about what things cost and why.

 

rct

[BobF_]

I pay more than twice as much for my health insurance as a private corporate worker.

 

My pay days are scheduled such that federal employees pay more per pound in taxes than any other working strata.

 

I pay the same social security taxes as everyone else, plus I pay for my own retirement plan, plus I put into my own 401K if I choose to. The match for feds is no greater than any private corporation.

 

My group life insurance is, on average, about 2 times more than a single individual can get without a group rate.

 

My retirement age is pushed back and further complicated each and every time there is change to the current system. I will have worked more than 42 years when I can actually retire without "penalty". Remember, "penalty" for taking my money, the money I put into my retirement along with everyone elses social security.

 

Every contractor the government hires in an effort to demonstrate their "cost cutting" for the taxpayer has 1.6 times the daily overhead rate that a regular old fed does. "cost cutting" costs you the taxpayer 1.6 times as much as not "cost cutting".

 

Oh, I could go on a long time, but I think I'll stop there. Maybe you could put some more stuff up about what things cost and why.

 

rct

 

I didn't realize you are a gubment employee ... I don't dispute anything you say about your compensation. My point is that you are paid with taxes. Those tax dollars have to come from somewhere to begin with. Tax revenue does NOT begin inside the gubment. It begins in the private sector. The notion that a person paid with tax dollars can be taxed to cover their benefits is absurd.

[BobF_]

The following are refundable credits, that is, it is entirely possible that the taxpayer could get a refund greater than their credit. Possible. So, please look at the qualifiers for these and tell me how many are doing this successfully, because again, I just don't see it.

 

Eearned Income Credit - http://www.cbpp.org/...fa=view&id=2505

Here is where the budget policy guys explain it, and give some figures on who and how many are getting it.

 

Excess Social Security Credit - http://www.irs.gov/t...pics/tc608.html

If you paid too much SS tax you get back the difference.

 

Additional Child Tax Credit - http://www.irs.gov/p.../p972/ar02.html

The fine print is all right there. Nobody is getting rich off this.

 

Health Coverage Credit - https://www.1040.com...overage-credit/

Have a look at requirement 1. You will join the other 43 guys that are eligible for this.

 

American Opportunity Credit - Higher Education that you pay for yourself. I've done this. You pay a lot for your education without borrowing money and you get part of it back. Am I a taker because instead of as sdeeping us in debt we pay for our education and get a tax break? Would you rather we waited for the big fed bailout of all the defaulted education lending?

 

 

 

Theres some effort up there chief. I have already done this. Perhaps you will spend some time reading and learning instead of repeating. Read that stuff. Nobody, NOBODY is "taking" more than making with these things that you put up here.

 

 

 

Has it ever occured to you that I am intensely aware of Fed revenue vs spending status, and that may be why I'm asking you to put something up here that approaches what you call "Truth"?

 

I put some stuff up. Read it. Counter it with the data showing the millions upon millons making hundreds of millions by not working and just using "refundable tax credits". That would be a start.

 

rct

 

I have already stated that refundable credits aren't required to make somebody a recipient. ANYBODY that isn't paying in NET ... after the refund checks are mailed and deposited, is a recipient. They are paying nothing in. The load is on others, the contributors.

 

Quit getting sidetracked on refundable credits. I should've never mentioned them, evil as they are.

 

Now look at tax data without looking at refundable credits. A great place to start is with demographic breakdowns of net effective tax rates.

[rct]

I didn't realize you are a gubment employee ... I don't dispute anything you say about your compensation. My point is that you are paid with taxes. Those tax dollars have to come from somewhere to begin with. Tax revenue does NOT begin inside the gubment. It begins in the private sector. The notion that a person paid with tax dollars can be taxed to cover their benefits is absurd.

 

I pay taxes. The federal government of U! S! A! is the single largest employer on earth. I should think you could easily realize that we pay an enormous share of individual income taxes, and we are not in the "private sector". What difference does ones employer make in our tax system? I'm not getting you here.

 

My point is this: repeating "more takers than makers" doesn't make it true. "don't get me started on refundable tax credits" is ridiculous, because nobody is gaming the tax system with them.

 

I hear this stuff, I have a brother that loves repeating this stuff, but he hasn't a clue as to where it comes from, what supports it, why anyone with any sense says it.

 

WHY DO PEOPLE SAY THIS STUFF??? Where is the data that shows that more people are on the dole and living off of less people working and paying taxes? Where is that?

 

rct

[zigzag]

CB. My apologies, but "receivers" sounds a lot like "takers." You invited rct to research it for himself (don't remember your exact words), but to me that sounded like you were asking him to confirm your research. Some of the Forbes data was totally false, but because Forbes is supposed to be reputable, we're suppose to buy it?

 

I would invite any of you to come to rural South Carolina to see what it's like down here. In much of the rural southeast, SC, GA, MS, AL, LA, AR, and yes, even TN, many people still live as they did in the days of reconstruction. Yeah, those who live in rural areas survive. Many are very happy. You wouldn't want to live like that, I promise. They live in shacks without running water or electricity, have no wheels to get around. Many are old and depend on relatives or volunteers for help. Around 40% of the funding for Meals on Wheels comes from the federal government. If the government wants to give them money and/or food, I suspect they'll take it. A LOT of people live like this. My wife runs the county public library system here. A good many of the "patrons" come in just to use the bathroom and stay warm. Some of the patrons use the libraries' computers to look for work, or apply for what?... public assistance? And wait, the library is run by whom?

 

A LOT of people live like this in inner cities. Poverty breeds poverty. Programs like head start and first steps are an attempt by government to give disadvantaged kids the opportunity to assimilate. Unfortunately, many of these programs never work the way they were intended, and those who need them most are the losers.

 

Some of you think that all it takes is the desire to succeed in this system. For many more than you realize, it's not that easy. And if the government is going to offer assistance, most people are going to take it.

 

And Bob, most of the government workers I know pay income taxes, and at a higher rate than wealthy people.

[BobF_]

I pay taxes. The federal government of U! S! A! is the single largest employer on earth. I should think you could easily realize that we pay an enormous share of individual income taxes, and we are not in the "private sector". What difference does ones employer make in our tax system? I'm not getting you here.

 

My point is this: repeating "more takers than makers" doesn't make it true. "don't get me started on refundable tax credits" is ridiculous, because nobody is gaming the tax system with them.

 

I hear this stuff, I have a brother that loves repeating this stuff, but he hasn't a clue as to where it comes from, what supports it, why anyone with any sense says it.

 

WHY DO PEOPLE SAY THIS STUFF??? Where is the data that shows that more people are on the dole and living off of less people working and paying taxes? Where is that?

 

rct

 

How does money become available to pay government employees? Remember, the balance starts at zero. Where does the revenue stream start? Where does the money to pay the benefits for the employees of the largest single employer on earth come from? Please don't respond with something like your pay comes from other gubment employees taxes ...

 

If you look at effective tax rate demographics, you'll see the truth in recipient numbers vs contributor numbers.

 

Pretending you don't know how to read data doesn't mean the data doesn't exist.

[zigzag]

I recently discovered an entire network of government employees in my state assigned to 'roadside beautification'. Necessary? Certainly a lower priority than roads and bridges for anybody with any common sense ... yet roadside beautification remains fully funded while taxpayers are threatened with failing bridges if they don't vote for more DOT taxes...

 

No, gubment employees aren't automatically in the category of "recipient" ... nor are they automatically cherished for their selfless contributions to society. They are what they are ...

 

Do think about it though. A gubment employee is paid with tax dollars. So if 15% of workers are gubment employees, then the entire shebang is funded by the other 85%.

 

Roadside beautification is no doubt unnecessary, but I said most government jobs are necessary, IMO. I'll bet you could find a few more unnecessary government jobs. Nice work, Bob.

 

The way CB framed his point, he basically said that you are a recipient (read "taker") if you don't work in the private sector... an inane comment and one that rct has done a great job in addressing, IMO.

 

Not the entire shebang... don't forget the post office.

[badbluesplayer]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tl1vVgQ4X7o