modoc_333 Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 i posted this on another forum too, but thought i might get more advice here. ok. let's start by saying that i know nothing about playing bluegrass, gospel, etc. i'm 29 years old. i'm a huge fan of Alice in Chains, Soundgarden, Tool and the like. i also dig playing some Led Zep, and i dig old blues like Robert Johnson. i like to listen to other types of music too. mostly i just play hard rock and some blues stuff. i want to learn a little bit of gospel and bluegrass. you know, the stuff that old men gather every saturday afternoon in the back of a tiny little store to jam on. i know it's really a mixture of folk, bluegrass, gospel and some other stuff. i would like to go hang out with them and learn a bit. i need some type of foundation in it before i show up with a guitar though. i don't think they want to hear the songs i know how to play! lol so, from a private study standpoint, where should i start? any websites, or tips? i really just need to understand some basic chord progressions, a couple of scales and some of the other things so i can at least sit in on something simple, and have an idea of what i'm doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brians356 Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 You live in an area where there should be lots of pickers playing those types of music. Go to some venues, watch and listen, and introduce yourself to some players, try to find one or more who would like to show you what they're doing. Essentially you will be taking lessons, and do offer to pay for their services. Some players make money teaching, but you may find those who will be willing to get together on a friendly, no-pay basis, particularly if you are a good player already. The best way to learn new styles and techniques is from a mentor. I wouldn't know where to point you for written or web material for those styles. All the good stuff I've ever learned has been from friends and teachers, in person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modoc_333 Posted January 12, 2009 Author Share Posted January 12, 2009 and that's the plan. there are plenty of those places around. i guess i just want to already be familiar with the back cover of the book before i walk in. does that make sense? lol i guess i don't want to just sit with a completely blank stare on my face. i'm really not even familiar with any particular songs! i couldn't name you 2 songs that i would expect to hear. i just kinda like some things about the style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballcorner Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 If you can jam with people on hard rock tunes, you can jam with people on old man music too. Just observe the first verse and get the chord progression - many of them are easy - and chime in on the second verse with a strum on the 1 beat only to get a feel for the song - then play it in the third verse, and beyond as necessary. There is very little someone can do for you here that will have any impact on your ability to join in. The best method is trial by fire, so get yourself invited and work it out. I have a weekly jam attended by people ranging from 8 years old to 81. When the more seasoned players see a young person struggling to understand the structure and timing, they always help out and get the younger player involved. Any community oriented music jam is going to work like that. If we tell you five things and you go to the jam believing those are five important things to do, you actually run the risk of alienating yourself from the group you want to play with. They will have their own approach so it is best to get the tips right at the source. You asked about scales. As a point of protocol, I would recommend that you not start in playing leads with a new group right away. At my jams, if someone plays a lot of leads while people are singing we tend to discourage them. It is tough enough singing over four or five guitars, but when a soloist wants to play all the way through it is near impossible. It is also my experience that as players age they become more interested in leads that follow the record or follow the melody rather tightly. If you are creative and want to explore the territory outside the melody, it might not work well with an established group. Get there early so you can feel these things out from people in the group you want to play with. Communication is key. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambler Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 "watch and listen" is absolutely the best advice. Id get myself a stack of Bill Monroe and Ralph Stanley cds and start from there (youd be suprised at what you can get from your public library). If you can find someone in your area that teaches, that's a plus (jams and music stores are good places to hook up). If not books can be a help. First 2 on the list are good for BG/Gospel (listen along) http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=bluegrass+songbook&x=0&y=0 and here's one for blues (http://www.amazon.com/Country-Blues-Songbook-Stefan-Grossman/dp/0825601371/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1231765967&sr=1-1 Dvd lessons are anotherr route, but tend to stress "lead" - Id 2nd the advice to nail down back-up parts first. But learning rudiments of fingerstyle (alt. bass etc) would go down well with all these styles. J basic flatpicking "http://guitarvideos.com/video/dvd/308dvd.htm" gospel. http://www.homespuntapes.com/shop/product.aspx?ID=394 basic blues: http://guitarvideos.com/video/dvd/401dvd.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peiplayer Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 As others have said you have to get involved in the jams. I’m fortunate where I live in that there is no shortage of these jams to attend. They have slow jams for beginners and advanced jams for others. I started out in the slow jams….I think the only song I knew then was “Red River Valley” and I was pretty pitiful , but after a few months I learned a lot more and soon moved quickly on to the advanced levels which are not really advanced, but offer much more variety. I found that it especially helped that I was willing to sing as so few seem to be…that helped me gain acceptance among the bluegrass crowd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Just learn the country strum before you go. Bass note, strum. Other bass note, strum. You can add an upstrum if you are feeling fancy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 You already play music- so you've got that going for you!! Ol Hoss is in the traditional sector, and it hasn't been that long since he started- anyone can do this. The best way to get going, IMO, is to find a friendly jam. Large or small. One that is geared for people just getting into bluegrass or Old timey stuff. ( best to avoid pushing your way into a small, hot group that you happen to hear playing someplace.) I'd be very surprised if there wasn't some kind of weekly jam in your area. Here's a few links I found right away for S. Carolina. http://www.lastroadbluegrass.com/Bluegrass_Happenings.htm http://www.bluegrassmusicjams.com/jam-southcarolina.html A big part of this music is social. Smile at people and talk. Ask about other jams where a rank beginner can fit in with no hassle. Don't worry about the music. You already know all the chords, and most of this traditional stuff will just have the BIg Three- that's it. I would start with rhythm and do more listening- try to fit in to the sound by hooking on to the best rhythm guitar in the jam and stay with him/her. Listen to the lead players. In Beginning groups, they'll most likely play the melody without much ornamentation- pretty straight and kinda boring. When you know the melodies, you can do this. You'll hear better players use the Pentatonic scales to ' blues' things up, or more chromatics. Whatever. Just find a jam where you can get some exposure to this music and have fun! My 2 cents- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidbg63 Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Hey Modoc.... Have you been to any of the bluegrass express sessions that are taped in the opera house downtown and played back on ETV? I have been to a few and really a good place to start as far as learning some of the stuff. I can play some of it. Mostly three or four chord progressions. (G,C,D) or (G, Am, C,D). The lead patterns can be tricky but most are based off one or two scales.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brians356 Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Most of the ideas posted so far have been related to bluegrass. As for gospel, well there's no better place to go than churches where they play "gospel" styles. Figure out which churches are playing what, show up some Sunday with a guitar case, and just see if they don't fall all over themselves welcoming you into the fold. If you are not a church-going type, it might be bit awkward for you, I know it would be for me. But once you move into gospel music you're often talking about electric guitar and R&B, so here your electric chops and blues licks will fit right in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modoc_333 Posted January 12, 2009 Author Share Posted January 12, 2009 Hey Modoc.... Have you been to any of the bluegrass express sessions that are taped in the opera house downtown and played back on ETV? I have been to a few and really a good place to start as far as learning some of the stuff. I can play some of it. Mostly three or four chord progressions. (G' date='C,D) or (G, Am, C,D). The lead patterns can be tricky but most are based off one or two scales.... [/quote'] i haven't been... but i'll have to check them out. i figured the answer was to just jump in. i just wasn't sure if there were any particular rhythms or strum patterns to work on or some chords that might be new to me but show up commonly... or tricks such as little notes commonly added to chords in that style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grampa Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 If you can play the rock stuff like you do, playing country, bluegrass etc. is really easy. The music isn't really that different from what you play, only it's acoustic. That's a bit simplified but close to how it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modoc_333 Posted January 12, 2009 Author Share Posted January 12, 2009 well, if nothing else at least you guys are giving me confidence! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nodehopper Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I didn't see this one suggested. It is very basic, but he explains not only the basics but also etiquette which is very important at a jam Bluegrass Slow Jam for the Total Beginner A Super-Easy, No-Fail Play-Along Session Taught By: Pete Wernick http://www.homespuntapes.com/shop/product.aspx?ID=186 This one is designed to teach you how to join in a BlueGrass Jam! But as most have said.....find a Jam that is local and is tolerant of beginners (Most are unless they say otherwise) Sit in the background and chime in on songs that you find easy to follow. I could barely play guitar and was very warmly welcomed at a local jam. Listen to Bill Monroe and Nitty Gritty Dirt Band "Will the Circle Be Unbroken" or any BlueGrass. Remember BlueGrass is basically 2 - 4 chord songs max...but if you know what they are talking about if they say it is in C and is a 1 -4 -5 song ......You are ready!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stumps Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 New to the forum but thought I'd add a bit on this thread - I wouldn't necessarily say that playing rock and some blues translates into playing bluegrass/gospel. the only leg up you have is that you know how to play, but even the chords can be different. Yes, you'll want to start with chords - best advice so far is start teaching yourself the base notes along with the chords. This is a basic for many bluegrass songs. When you hear a bluegrass song, what makes it a rich sound isn't that they're playing just 3 chords, it's what they're doing to the chords. Lots of hammering on, pulling off. Here's just an example - Play a C chord. Then add the base notes to it and try that. Next, Try lifting the middle finger, play the open string then hammer on the 2nd fret and time it so it hits just after the base note and into the second beat. I know it's hard to explain with words, but that "idea" is the backbone of bluegrass chord playing. On the one hand it's simple in design -you stay in the "C" Chord but you're adding lots of variations on the sound. In execution, it takes practice to get the timing down. And with every chord there is pulling off/hammering on that can be used to produce great sounds. If you've grown up listening to bluegrass you might find it a natural fit. If the music is new to you it will just take some getting used to. I've been playing for 25 years, the last 18 just acoustic, and I found that once you master the basic chording techniques it opens up a world of songs for you. Now, bluegrass runs are a different story, and there are some basic runs like a G-run you can learn, but the quickest, most fulfilling way is to get a good bluegrass CD, listen to it, and focus on just one aspect of the song, like the runs, and pick them out and play them. You'll have faster success if you pick songs you want to play or that are meaninful to you. I've found gospel to be more like old country and folk - learn the base note strumming and you're on your way. Oh, JMHO - I'm not sure if you just show up to a church with guitar in hand they'll rush you up to a stage. I'd suggest buying some CDs and copying what you hear... go to church just to go to church.... Happy pickin' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modoc_333 Posted January 18, 2009 Author Share Posted January 18, 2009 no, not looking to rush up on stage. lol i just want to broaden my musical horizons a bit. i really like your post. you gave some good, in depth explanations too. i have noticed some of what you said about the hammer ons and pull offs. that's more why i was asking about scales. i wouldn't want to just jump in trying to play leads (in any style you need to learn the rhythm first) but i do want to know which notes i should be hammering/pulling on/off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stumps Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 I think the fastest way to learn is to watch someone... I could type paragraphs, but if you could watch someone you'd pick it up fast. If you go buy a bluegrass book, there isn't a lot to go on mostly - lyrics and chords. But what about a crossover song like Seven Bridges Road? That is basically bluegrass style chording, and I bet you could find the tab or an explanation on that song better than what I could give you... just a thought. You might want to go to an intimate show, just a jam session, leave the guitar at home, say you just want to listen, and watch the left hands... good luck, have fun. It's definitely music that gives you a great deal of pleasure to play and sing when it's just you at home. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jefleppard Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 modoc, love that firebird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modoc_333 Posted January 18, 2009 Author Share Posted January 18, 2009 modoc' date=' love that firebird.[/quote'] thank you! it was one of those cases where i was in the right place at the right time to get it. i do love it though! as for the playing bluegrass being fun... and fun around the house: i have heard bluegrass. i live in the south. even though i don't really listen to country and bluegrass that much, it's around me everywhere. i've seen union station play live and i enjoyed it. a while back i was playing SJ and wrote a little song. i asked my wife, "hey, i just wrote this. i can't even really tell what style of music it is. it's almost country, it's almost blues.... what is it?" lol. it was funny b/c i couldn't put my finger on it. i guess just b/c i don't play or listen to that stuff. i really liked this thing i was playing though. she said that it reminded her of bluegrass...... with a healthy dose of that "O Brother Where Art Thou" feel to it. she listens to all of that stuff so i said, "OK" after that it really made me want to learn more. i had written this thing just by stumbling onto it and playing what sounded good to my ear at the time. it just flowed out. i didn't mean to write it, and didn't even know what i was aiming for (nothing really). it was things and styles i had never used though. i was hammering on and pulling off notes in chords that i hadn't done before... and wasn't sure why. but i knew i liked the result. so, after that i decided i would like to explore it a bit. i love pulling out the les paul and playing Led Zep and Alice in Chains too... but this interests me too. hell, maybe it's my real calling! i could be a bluegrass natural and not even know it! lol (doubtful). the only downside as i can see it is.....well..... i really hate having to listen to banjo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mojo312 Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 modoc, I have a thought. If you have iTunes on your computer open the 'radio' and listen to the "Blue Grass" station all day and night for free! You'll get full exposure while you do whatever else you do oline. Works for me anyway. all the best Jp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jefleppard Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 modoc' date=' I have a thought. If you have iTunes on your computer open the 'radio' and listen to the "Blue Grass" station all day and night for free! You'll get full exposure while you do whatever else you do oline. Works for me anyway. all the best Jp[/quote'] great idea. last.fm has dedicated stations for every genre, subgenre and artist as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd Wilson Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 There's several websites with gospel and praise songs with lyrics and the chord changes around the web. Just search for gospel song chords or something similar. There's of course Youtube.... But being in South Carolina (I lived in North Caroline 8 miles from the SC border once) there are plenty of churches that have less formal Wednesday and Sunday night services and many times there's a guitar player or players either buy themselves or at least doing some accompaniment and most would love to get together with you. Most Gospel is fairly simple strumming and arpeggios, if you wanted to get a little fancy over the bridge or something you can throw in a little base run or quick solo ala Hendrix in things like Hey Joe by simply using the major and minor pentatonic in whatever key your in. One thing with Gospel is if you are singing you may have to transpose the key from the key you find the song written or tabbed in, as most are written for female dominant choirs with male bass background voices. If you can play some Alice in Chains stuff, you shouldn't have much of a problem throwing little riffs and fills here and there for spice. As for Blugrass, ...... I don't know. I don't play any and know very little bluegrass, but have become interested in learning some, so if you find a really good resource, please post it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted January 19, 2009 Share Posted January 19, 2009 No advice on bluegrass - don't play it. If I did I would probably not be playing a Gibson. But for learning spirtuals, I agree about hearing the music sung in a church - especially a Southern Baptist Church. Back in Mississippi, my house backed up to a Baptist Church. Think the place had been there since the 1880s or something. They had choir practice every Wednesday night. Lordy Have Mercy - talk about a joyful noise. I got in the habit of going out to my back porch and sitting quietly playing along - often breaking out my Coriciden bottle. One night a few of the ladies walked out for a break or something and heard me. They walked over and invited me in. Spent more than a few Wednesday evenings after that sitting in that church playing along with jubilee songs as old as their most remote ancestors. Even played at a few services. On those eveinings though I came as close to understanding where the blues comes from as I was ever to get. About as close as I have come to that experience on a recording would be someone like Blind Willie Johnson. If you can master the feeling and sound he gets in a tune like "Dark Was The Night, Cold Was the Ground" then I would say you are on your way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modoc_333 Posted January 20, 2009 Author Share Posted January 20, 2009 i'm liking this. it took the thread a little while, but we're starting really get somewhere here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Posted January 20, 2009 Share Posted January 20, 2009 Ahh, Blind Willie Johnson. The only man that could play guitar and gargle razor blades at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.