Rui Horta Santos Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Hi! I have a 1976 wine red Les Paul Deluxe. The intriquing thing about it is that it has P-90 pickups as opposed to the usual mini-humbuckers. Does anyone know if Gibson also produced this model (in 1976) with the P-90 pickups or where these necessarily subsequently substituted in my guitar by a previous owner? Thanks Rui Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swmcv2007 Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Welcome here man I wish I could help you man. I really do. Would you mind posting some pictures if possible? I would really love to see that precious baby of yours, it would make my day. And don't worry someone here will have the right answer in like 1 second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejay Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Let's see some pictures! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rui Horta Santos Posted January 14, 2009 Author Share Posted January 14, 2009 I'll post a photo tomorrow as I don't have one available right now. R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruznolfart Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Welcome to the forums, Rui, and I hope you get things figured out on your guitar. Here's a site that might be helpful to you. While they list your guitar as having been originally equipped with humbuckers, I googled a little bit and found a couple of other articles that refer to a '76 wine red deluxe with "the correct p-90s" so it's a bit confusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thundergod Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Remember at that time there was lots of inconsistencies between one guitar and the next... maybe it was a special ed? Or maybe they did come with p90s. Anyway, I hope you post pics of that beauty soon man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cvansickle Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 The P90 model at the time was known as the Pro Deluxe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruznolfart Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 The P90 model at the time was known as the Pro Deluxe. Well, there ya go. This is such a great place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thundergod Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 The P90 model at the time was known as the Pro Deluxe. There you go... I just wrote that on google (imiages) and up show lots of lester images, with p90s... How knoledgeable cvansickle! thumbs up, hats off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cvansickle Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 There you go... I just wrote that on google (imiages) and up show lots of lester images' date=' with p90s... How knoledgeable cvansickle! :) thumbs up, hats off[/quote'] Well, thank you very much. What can I say? I was there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MReynolds Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 The P90 model at the time was known as the Pro Deluxe. The Vintage Guitar Price Guide makes no mention of a "Pro" Deluxe. They do state: "Les Paul Deluxe 1969-1985. In '69 the goldtop Les Paul Standard was renamed the Deluxe. Two mini-humbuckers (regular humbuckers optional in the mid-1970s). Mid-'70s sparkel tops are worth more than standard finishes." The thing I do remember hearing about them (and I have a '74 Deluxe Goldtop i bought new) was that the mini-humbucker pickup was basically a P-90 shell with a mini-humbucker mounted inside. Now I did run across a site that is very extensive for all brands and types of guitars and this is what they had: "Les Paul Deluxe Model Electric Solidbody Available: 1969 to 1985 Collectibility Rating: D-. The final degeneration of the Les Paul Standard model. Early verions of the Deluxe can be decent guitars' date=' but for the most part they are victims of the 1970's era (larger peghead, volute, bad pickups, inferior woods, etc). mid 1969 Les Paul Deluxe specs: Les Paul Standard is renamed "Les Paul Deluxe". Four piece pancake body (maple top, thicker mahogany layer, thin maple layer, thicker mahogany layer), 2 mini-humbuckers pickups (though some produced with P-90's), 3 piece neck, goldtop finish, pantograph logo. 1971 Les Paul Deluxe specs: Cherry sunburst and Cherry Red finishes 1972 Les Paul Deluxe specs: Tobacco sunburst available till 1979, Walnut finishes available till 1972. Also available with full size humbucker pickups till 1976 when the Les Paul Standard was re-introduced with the larger humbucker pickups. 1975 Les Paul Deluxe specs: Natural and Wine Red top finish available. 1977 Les Paul Deluxe specs: two piece body standard (pancake body dropped). 1985 Les Paul Deluxe dropped. " You can check this site out at: Antique Vintage Guitars collector info Also here's a link to one that was for sale at one time (good pics): http://www.guitar-museum.com/guitar-44575-1980-Les-Paul-Pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cvansickle Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 According to this, they exisited but not as early as 1976: http://vintage-guitars.blogspot.com/2006/01/gibson-les-paul-deluxe.html I had a Gibson catalog from 1978 that had the Pro Deluxe in it. I remember the pickup difference quite well. I frequented a Chicago dealer from 1978-1981 that carried Pro Deluxes, and they all had P90s on them. So yeah, I can't validate that the OP's 1976 is authentic, but I can vouch that the model did exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rui Horta Santos Posted January 15, 2009 Author Share Posted January 15, 2009 Hello Everybody, Thanks for showing your interest and sharing information with me. I had some trouble uploading the image directly to this forum but here is a link to the images that I posted in Photobucket: Let’s hope it works. Any new insight to my question will be much appreciated. Rui Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruznolfart Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 Hello Everybody' date='Thanks for showing your interest and sharing information with me. I had some trouble uploading the image directly to this forum but here is a link to the images that I posted in Photobucket: http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/qq88/1976_les_paul/1976_GibsonLPDeluxe.jpg Let’s hope it works. Any new insight to my question will be much appreciated. Rui [/quote'] I think we're getting it narrowed down, Rui. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cvansickle Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 That body looks really clean for a 76, IMO. I would like to see close-ups of the front and back of the headstock. Stock LP Pro Deluxes from the 70s typically had cream soapbars. I've never seen one with black covers, but parts like those are easily swapped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulsaslim Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 I think I have a clue, though. One must remember that the mini-humbucker was invented in the first place because Gibson already had a bunch of bodies routed for P-90s when the demand for humbuckers was huge. So Seth Lover was ordered to develop a humbucker pickup that would fit into a P-90 rout and-voila!- the mini-hum was born. It could very well be that a previous owner simply reversed the process by replacing the minis with P-90s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cvansickle Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 Slim, your facts are a little off: When Gibson acquired Epiphone, they also got a load of mini-hums in the deal. These pickups were used on various Epi models. Gibson's bean counters demanded that they find a way to utilize them, so somebody hit on the idea of routing the inside of a P90 shell and sticking the mini-hum in there. Voila, new Les Paul model, the Deluxe! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil325 Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 i learned something new today. two things. thank you cvansickle :) beautiful guitar Rui, hope you figure it all out soon man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cvansickle Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 Aha! I found some supporting documentation. According to Fifty Years of the Gibson Les Paul by Tony Bacon (one of THE most credible authorities on Les Pauls), the Pro Deluxe WAS issued in 1976: "Gibson Introduced two new Les Paul models in 1976. First was the Pro Deluxe, effectively a Deluxe with P-90 pickups and an ebony fingerboard. It was produced in large quatities in Nashville. The other was The Les Paul, which had been seen at the 1975 NAMM show." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rui Horta Santos Posted January 16, 2009 Author Share Posted January 16, 2009 Thanks Guys! Great work and insight (Cruznolfart for uploading the pictures)! Here is a Picture of the back of the headstock with the serial number: Rui Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rui Horta Santos Posted January 16, 2009 Author Share Posted January 16, 2009 Cvansickle, I must buy the book. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulsaslim Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Slim' date=' your facts are a little off: When Gibson acquired Epiphone, they also got a load of mini-hums in the deal. These pickups were used on various Epi models. Gibson's bean counters demanded that they find a way to utilize them, so somebody hit on the idea of routing the inside of a P90 shell and sticking the mini-hum in there. Voila, new Les Paul model, the Deluxe![/quote'] I'm not confident enough to argue with you but I have read that more than once. However, your arguement makes sense so I'll go along with it. However, Gibson acquired Epiphone in 1957 and, to the best of my knowledge, the first LP Deluxe didn't come out until 1969. (I know of no LP deluxes before 1960 & we all know no LPs were made between 1960-1968). The only trouble I have with your arguement is that I find it hard to believe they had those minis lying around for 11 years before they decided to do something with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cvansickle Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 The only trouble I have with your arguement is that I find it hard to believe they had those minis lying around for 11 years before they decided to do something with them. Ah, but Gibson had an ownership change within those 11 years. With the takeover, Gibson became a cost center instead of a profit center. The new owner's accountants were cheap bastards and wanted to utilize as many current assets as possible. Prior to that, Gibson had no use for the mini humbuckers and had no inclination to install them in any production models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkyDogJr Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 The P90 model at the time was known as the Pro Deluxe. The problem I see is that the serial number doesn't say Pro Deluxe, it says deluxe. I've owned two Pro Deluxes and their truss rod cover said Pro not Deluxe. I also had a 77 Les Paul Standard that had humbucker pups and the serial number said it was a deluxe. I compared it to a deluxe and its headstock was smaller than the deluxe. What does all of that mean? I asked a guy I knew who was "in the know" and was told that they were awful about serial number decals in those days. What raises a flag on this guitar for me is according to everything I've ever read or found out about on the Pro Deluxe model is that they didn't, according to the documentation, issue one in wine red. Sunbursts, Red an Brown, Black and some Gold Tops although I've never seen one of the Pros in gold. I would say that it might be a rare bird since it sounds like they were not being very careful back in the day with serial numbering. However, it could be a Deluxe, which did come in wine red, that had the p-90's installed after the fact. (Which is likely as the Pro Deluxe had Cream coloured plastic on the PU Ring and gaurd. I know I've said the P-90 was under rated in terms of versatility for years and sales men were like:-k ? Does it have a pickgaurd and is it black? That could tell the tail. It seems as though I may have clouded the issue.... either way, (clear or cloudy) They are becoming just as colectable as anything else from that period. The pro deluxe had one major problem. They were so heavy that they didn't do as well as Gibson might have hoped. Probably made it worse... but there you have what I know on the subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cvansickle Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 We still haven't seen a clear shot of the truss rod cover... Bacon's book said the Pro Deluxe was available in "various colors." I had never seen a wine red one either. To tell the truth, Rui's guitar looks irregular all around. It may have started life as a mini-humbucker Deluxe, and then was modified by one of its owners. Another theory - it may have been built as a Gibson factory "employee model." With those, anything goes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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