j45nick Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 There's a lot of talk here--and I'm as guilty as anyone-- about how instruments with narrow nut widths and tight string spacing are hard to play. Hard to fret with your fat fingers, as well as getting your pick or picking fingers tangled up. Chris Thile, for those that don't know, was mandolin player and vocalist for Nickel Creek, but he also has classical recordings of Bach sonatas and partitas transcribed by him for mandolin, as well as many collaborations and side projects. In case you wonder just how good he is at a variety of things musical, he has also recorded with Yo Yo Ma and various symphony orchestras, and was a MacArthur Fellow, the so-called "genius grant". Here's a recording he did sitting on his living room couch. You should listen to the first couple of minutes just to get the feel of how expressive he is as a player. Then, if Bach is not your thing, I suggest you skip forward to about 11:30 and beyond for the final presto movement. Then you can pick your jaw up off the floor at the end. The mandolin, by the way, is a 1924 Lloyd Loar F-5. About as good as a mandolin gets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duluthdan Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 ok, um... that was outrageously good. Dayum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 the kid is definately special. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Definite mimer [mellow] Beautiful tone on the mandolin! BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted December 2, 2014 Author Share Posted December 2, 2014 the kid is definately special. Scary good. And he can sing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 I think if you have a real F-5, you can have whatever string spacing or burst or neck shape or whatever. It's an Loar F-5. You pretty much rule. Even if you suck at playing, just owning an F-5 should entitle a guy to not have to pay at restaurants or carry cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted December 2, 2014 Author Share Posted December 2, 2014 I think if you have a real F-5, you can have whatever string spacing or burst or neck shape or whatever. It's an Loar F-5. You pretty much rule. Even if you suck at playing, just owning an F-5 should entitle a guy to not have to pay at restaurants or carry cash. Agree, and that one is the real thing. Pretty much like walking through the door with a pre-war D-45. "Y'all got any pickers here? Want to do a little throw-down?" Of course, you better have the chops to back up what the instrument can produce in the right hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Agree, and that one is the real thing. Pretty much like walking through the door with a pre-war D-45. "Y'all got any pickers here? Want to do a little throw-down?" Of course, you better have the chops to back up what the instrument can produce in the right hands. God knows I don't. A scratch on that thing could potentially de-value it more than the whole of my collection is worth. Or a pre-war D-28. If I gotta have the chops to back up what guitar I'm playing, I had better get back to practicing. I might be at pre-Epi levels as we speak. I'd be lucky to be found worthy to pay for the dinner of the guy who owns what you speak of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted December 2, 2014 Author Share Posted December 2, 2014 God knows I don't. A scratch on that thing could potentially de-value it more than the whole of my collection is worth. Or a pre-war D-28. If I gotta have the chops to back up what guitar I'm playing, I had better get back to practicing. I might be at pre-Epi levels as we speak. I'd be lucky to be found worthy to pay for the dinner of the guy who owns what you speak of. I had the great good fortune to hold two of the few pre-war D-45's that were in a luthier's shop for repair. My hands were shaking, and I was almost afraid to pick them up. I suspect the Loar F-5's cause pretty much the same reaction among mandolin fanciers. I know that some of them are named, just like Stradivari. In good condition, I think a Loar F-5 fetches $250,000 or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L5Larry Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Well, kind of back on topic.... Regardless of the narrow string spacing of any mandolin, watch his technique. There are no left hand gymnastics going on there, it's all RIGHT HAND. The right hand is what separates the men from the boys, whether it's plectrum, fingerstyle, claw hammer, or whatever. Most guitar players (especially ME) should spend more time on right hand technique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave F Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 . If I gotta have the chops to back up what guitar I'm playing, I had better get back to practicing. I might be at pre-Epi levels as we speak. I'd be lucky to be found worthy to pay for the dinner of the guy who owns what you speak of. I'm afraid if I could only own what my skill level was I'd be alone with my little Kay guitar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuestionMark Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Actually, it's a matter of where one is at in their playing journey. I think everyone starts out focusing on the left hand until certain things get to be by riote, and then shifts to focusing on the right hand. But, at some point, things begin to get refined with the right hand and the shift goes back to focusing on the left hand and fretboard logic and left hand nuances. At least that's the way it's been for me. First learned chording. (LH). Then many years of fingerpicking (RH) and sychroniziing it with left hand notes ((LH and RH). Then expanding the right hand to get further nuanced (RH). Now for the past ten years I never ever focus on my right hand. It just knows what to do to hit the proper string it make a certain sound. Now I only focus on my left hand to make certain notes/melody/phrasings (LH). The right hand just adds the rhythm and hits whatever note the left hand is doing. I always look only at my left hand if I look at either hand when I am playing. In the music jams I run, there is typically, though not always, the same focus by other experienced pickers. Including experienced mandolin players, though not always, of course. On the other hand (no pun intended) there is no right or wrong way. It depends on what one is playing. Also, one must keep in mind that in videos, camera personnel often do not have a clue and will show the right hand while a musician may actually be focusing on his/her left hand work when playing. In an extreme, think of a classical player. Certainly advanced playing. The guitar is propped up so the left hand is the focus. Segovia needed to hit certain notes to make the melody being played,much the same as a horn player needs to hit certain notes. The breathing on a horn is basically the right hand on guitar, establishing the rhythm in combination with hitting the notes while the notes themselves are nuanced by the notes themselves in combination with the breathing. Likewise, on guitar, the right hand causes sound to come out of the guitar,but isn't making the notes produce the specific music that the left hand is producing. Another good example is ukulele playing. At its most basic,it is one finger chords and an ice strum. Advanced uke playing (think Jake S on while Mu Guitar Gently Weeps). His left handis making a kinds of intricate melody, making his uke playing advanced. True his right hand is making sure sound and nuances are coming out of the instrument, but it's really his left hand focus that is handling the intricacies. Hope this makes sense. It's how I play in my 52nd year of playing at least. Naturally other perspectives are welcome to be expressed on this interesting topic. Jazzman Jeff aka QM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted December 3, 2014 Author Share Posted December 3, 2014 Well, kind of back on topic.... Regardless of the narrow string spacing of any mandolin, watch his technique. There are no left hand gymnastics going on there, it's all RIGHT HAND. The right hand is what separates the men from the boys, whether it's plectrum, fingerstyle, claw hammer, or whatever. Most guitar players (especially ME) should spend more time on right hand technique. No question about this one for me. I am in full-on struggle with the right hand, which is the key to success in guitar. I struggle with a lot of stretches on the left hand, but right hand is much harder for me. Rhythm and expression are functions of the right hand, at least for what I play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuestionMark Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Here's more food for thought. A bluegrass player typically learns the up/down right hand technique of flat picking. Certainly a skill. But, that flat picking is really supplementing the left hand's note picking by rote. With No left hand notes, then a great flat picker isn't really shining in their playing...as it's the notes themselves that need to be flatpicked. Course if one knows the notes and can't pick 'em, it won't sound like much to just fret with the left hand. But, after the right hand learns it's thing, it's the left hand that it follows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuestionMark Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Ps. Strumming chords of course is a different thang. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Sometimes humans work/play better if they make it really hard on themselves! Nowhere near Thile's accomplished style, but I did a lot of work on my right hand for blues picking and I keep it going by doing pop solos and strums and everything that is needed, but the main thing for me was learning thumb and ONE finger ala RevDavis until it was just INGRAINED, then I started to add a extra finger for double stops and then everything we have for chords including strumming up and down with just the thumb, or just the index. I don't like analysing it much because it works better when we are thinking about the left hand or anything else, really....it is a scary thing when the mind decides that 1string part of a riff need a flick from the third finger out of the blue.....who is running this ship? BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted December 3, 2014 Author Share Posted December 3, 2014 Sometimes humans work/play better if they make it really hard on themselves! Nowhere near Thile's accomplished style, but I did a lot of work on my right hand for blues picking and I keep it going by doing pop solos and strums and everything that is needed, but the main thing for me was learning thumb and ONE finger ala RevDavis until it was just INGRAINED, then I started to add a extra finger for double stops and then everything we have for chords including strumming up and down with just the thumb, or just the index. I don't like analysing it much because it works better when we are thinking about the left hand or anything else, really....it is a scary thing when the mind decides that 1string part of a riff need a flick from the third finger out of the blue.....who is running this ship? BluesKing777. Boy, you nailed that one! Really strange when that happens, and you catch yourself saying "where did that come from?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuestionMark Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Well said! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 The left hand shows what ya know the right hand shows who ya are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambler Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 The business with spacing comes into play when you start fignerpicking. You can get in the narrow spaces with a flatpicks--its like a scalpel. Fingers need more room to operate. Speaking of which, got to play several new Gibsons yesterday. RE spacing, LG2 Eagle-- panifully narrow spacing and skinny neck. J45 TV-- this one had a narrow 11/16 neck and slimmer profile. Pass. New J35 -- comfortable enough to navigate and just enough girth on the neck profile. L00 KM -- spacious (1.8) and big neck makes for a fignerpickers dream. A little tone monster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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