duane v Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Just wondering why Gibson didn't put any back bracing on the early J-185 acoustics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 Generally that means a laminate back (and sides). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted December 28, 2014 Share Posted December 28, 2014 I don't know the model, but isn't it an arch-top back? (Would that be called an "arched-back?"). I don't think my L-7 has any back bracing. For some reason, I seem to think arch-tops generally don't have back bracing, but I can't say as I remember checking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-1854Me Posted December 29, 2014 Share Posted December 29, 2014 The earlier J-185ECs -- and their predecessors, the EC-30 BKE -- had laminated backs (don't recall if sides too). I recall someone in Bozeman telling me that they made the laminated backs in the Nashville plant, where a lot of the guitars are made using laminated maple, and shipped em out to Bozeman for various small jumbo maple guitars, like the EC-30, later the J185EC, and likely the even earlier Starburst guitars. A little later in that model's history, they started using solid maple, and then the backs had bracing. Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cibby53 Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Taylor's 200 series and 100 series are the same no back bracing. My old Martin Road series has back bracing it has laminate back and sides. Guess it depends on who makes them. I haven't seen a laminate back and side Gibson acoustic they must be older models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse_Dylan Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Some of the Gibson Gospel guitars were made with arched backs. Arched backs are laminated and don't need back bracing. But, as was mentioned, some guitars with laminated backs still have back bracing. Guild made quite a few guitars as well with arched backs. It was considered a feature more than a compromise in a lot of cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 I don't think my L-7 has any back bracing. For some reason, I seem to think arch-tops generally don't have back bracing, but I can't say as I remember checking. Generally correct, at least for arch-back guitars. My 1947 L-7, with carved solid maple back, has no back bracing. The carved spruce arched top, however, has two longitudinal braces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Generally correct, at least for arch-back guitars. My 1947 L-7, with carved solid maple back, has no back bracing. The carved spruce arched top, however, has two longitudinal braces. Which gets to "to X-brace or parallel brace". I actually do care, it interest me, but I can't believe I don't know this stuff or forgot. I DO remember that at least, the one I have is parallel braced. And also, have played the L-7 reissue, which I understand to be X-braced. It leads me to think, I prefer the former. But of MOST of the archtops I have played, I don't recall what they were/are. I regress to the thread: One would think the back not nearly so important, but not only would I expect an arch-back to sound different than a flat one, I might expect bracing to be a factor. At least as much as laminate vs solid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Which gets to "to X-brace or parallel brace". I actually do care, it interest me, but I can't believe I don't know this stuff or forgot. I DO remember that at least, the one I have is parallel braced. And also, have played the L-7 reissue, which I understand to be X-braced. It leads me to think, I prefer the former. But of MOST of the archtops I have played, I don't recall what they were/are. I regress to the thread: One would think the back not nearly so important, but not only would I expect an arch-back to sound different than a flat one, I might expect bracing to be a factor. At least as much as laminate vs solid. To continue your diversion, from what I've read, the L-5/7/10/12 went to top solid x-bracing with the introduction of the 17" advanced body in about 1934-35, and stuck with x-bracing until about 1939, when they went to parallel bracing (actually near-parallel, as far as I can tell). These guitars get most of their structural stiffness from the compound curves of the carved top/back. The longitudinal top braces near the centerline would certainly be easier to fit, and might resist the top compression of the floating bridge and the body bending moment applied by the strings better than x-bracing. As far as sound goes, I have no idea what the difference would be. L-5 Larry might know, as he is the archtop expert here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Posted December 31, 2014 Share Posted December 31, 2014 I have a 1997 CL-20 Standard Plus and that too has laminated back and sides with no back bracing. I understand that 97 is the only year in that models short run that these guitars had laminated B/S all others where two piece backs with bracing. By the way, it's a nice sounding/looking guitar and I believe a little lighter too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raunchpr Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 I own a BKE30 Maple it took me a while to dare to use it because it is so beautiful and wonderful looking vintage in collectors condition. After posting on the forum I was enticed to enjoy it and boy it's just great I'm in love.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex_78 Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 Some of the Gibson Gospel guitars were made with arched backs. Arched backs are laminated and don't need back bracing. But, as was mentioned, some guitars with laminated backs still have back bracing. Guild made quite a few guitars as well with arched backs. It was considered a feature more than a compromise in a lot of cases. My D25 is a great guitar and I think Guild pioneered this design as they were already making archtop guitars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWG4927 Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 Just wondering why Gibson didn't put any back bracing on the early J-185 acoustics Four year old zombie thread. Wonder if the OP is still wondering Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuestionMark Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 My D25 is a great guitar and I think Guild pioneered this design as they were already making archtop guitars. As the initial Guild company was comprised of former NY Epiphone (pre-Gibson owned Epiphone) employees/managers who broke off from Epiphone, and as the original Epiphone Company made archtops and a flat top, at least in the early 50s, with an arched laminated back (the FT-79), its more likely that the Guild Company gained the concept and know how from former Epiphone employees/managers familiar with arched laminated backs that moved over to Guild. Just my perspective. QM aka Jazzman Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 As the initial Guild company was comprised of former NY Epiphone (pre-Gibson owned Epiphone) employees/managers who broke off from Epiphone, and as the original Epiphone Company made archtops and a flat top, at least in the early 50s, with an arched laminated back (the FT-79), its more likely that the Guild Company gained the concept and know how from former Epiphone employees/managers familiar with arched laminated backs that moved over to Guild. I didn't know that. Guild had a particular press for their jumbo lam archbacks that they carried from plant to plant in their many moves. My Guild JF30-12 has a high quality braceless lam maple back. That 12er just has massive tone.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex_78 Posted October 7, 2018 Share Posted October 7, 2018 As the initial Guild company was comprised of former NY Epiphone (pre-Gibson owned Epiphone) employees/managers who broke off from Epiphone, and as the original Epiphone Company made archtops and a flat top, at least in the early 50s, with an arched laminated back (the FT-79), its more likely that the Guild Company gained the concept and know how from former Epiphone employees/managers familiar with arched laminated backs that moved over to Guild. Just my perspective. QM aka Jazzman Jeff Sure but was Epiphone building flat tops with arched backs? I don't remember...the first maker to know knowledge that made a flat top with arched back is Guild...AFAIK. I didn't know that. Guild had a particular press for their jumbo lam archbacks that they carried from plant to plant in their many moves. My Guild JF30-12 has a high quality braceless lam maple back. That 12er just has massive tone.... Envy! Envy! I have a JF30-12 but it's not sunburst, my 25 is however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuestionMark Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 My 1955 NY Epiphone Company FT79 has a laminated arched back. The FT79 was a flattop. The original Epiphone Company started producing laminated arched back FT79’s in 1949. From 1941-1948, the FT79 did not have a lam arched back. Starting in 1949, the Epi FT110, also a flattop, also had a lam arched back. The FT110 morphed into the Gibson owned Epi Frontier in 1958 as the FT79 morphed into the FT79 Texan when Gibson bought Epi. Neither the FT79 Texan or Frontier continued the lam arched back under Gibson ownership of Epi. Guild debuted guitars circa 1953 from a group of workers/managers who bolted from the NY Epiphone Company (before Gibson bought Epi) when there was some kind of strike going on at Epi or something and formed the Guild Company, producing their first flattops in 1953 based on their workers’ and manager’s knowledge of building guitars from their experience while at Epi. That’s where Guild’s concept of lam arched back guitars apparently came from and why. Also, their initial knowledge of building archtops as well as other guitars. Hope this helps. QM aka Jazzmam Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 Envy! Envy! I have a JF30-12 but it's not sunburst, my 25 is however. Mine's out of Corona and sports an ebony fretboard. Unlike most other Guilds, Corona put out some gorgeous Gibson-like bursts.... This 12-string is simply amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinder Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 I’ve loved every Gospel I’ve played, particularly the maple ‘70s examples. The braceless arched back design was the saving grace of that bleak Norlin era. Great guitars, as were the contemporaneous Guild G37 Maple dreads of that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex_78 Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 Mine's out of Corona and sports an ebony fretboard. Unlike most other Guilds, Corona put out some gorgeous Gibson-like bursts.... This 12-string is simply amazing. Hey, Westerly also made nice sunburst, they were however relatively rare, this is my 25SB: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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