BluesKing777 Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 Actually I resurrected it because I thought your post was informative, very thorough and very thoughtful! And Terrorication had come to stay and people had had some time to really test the process and results and we needed to hear more. And I am an OLD SCHOOL CURMUDGEON that likes my artisans to keep their craft alive doing it the beautiful old ways and this baked top stuff sounded like some Corporate Voodoo to veil some wood switcharoo or something... and then I played the J-45 Vintage... I don't care what they did to it it simply sounds wonderful... it sounds like an old guitar without the flaws, it feels new and perfect like a Custom Shop should, but each string's note sounds like it was aged in a vacuum safe from aberrant damage. I'm a believer as long as they holdup over time. Ha! Coffee gone everywhere! :lol: :lol: :lol: Stop buying them J45 Vintages will yas - we will never get one to look at here. BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bayoubengal1954 Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 Why buy some rattly old guit when they make these wonderful clones? BluesKing777. BK, I'm guessing you're speaking in hyperbole with a bit of a wink to make a point, but I'll bite. To me, there is much more satisfaction in buying an "old ratty guit" and get it to top playing condition to bring out all the history, ghosts and yes, mojo in the old boy. In the end the difference in money spent is not much, but spiritual rewards immeasurable. All of course just MHO. Now having said all that if eventually the premium charged for the cooked topped guitars starts to go down (it seems to me the up-charge is way out of proportion to the actual cost of the process to the builder as noted by the small difference in price when one buys the cooked wood instead of the non cooked before it becomes a guitar), I could see myself springing for one in the future. So I'm not against it on principle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 BK, I'm guessing you're speaking in hyperbole with a bit of a wink to make a point, but I'll bite. To me, there is much more satisfaction in buying an "old ratty guit" and get it to top playing condition to bring out all the history, ghosts and yes, mojo in the old boy. In the end the difference in money spent is not much, but spiritual rewards immeasurable. All of course just MHO. Now having said all that if eventually the premium charged for the cooked topped guitars starts to go down (it seems to me the up-charge is way out of proportion to the actual cost of the process to the builder as noted by the small difference in price when one buys the cooked wood instead of the non cooked before it becomes a guitar), I could see myself springing for one in the future. So I'm not against it on principle. What we could use is a sound/playability/appearance index of 10 points each and a max of 30 then.... Except everyone's index is way different and some plaine wacko! Now the Martin Authentics would be way up the scale in the first 2, but since they brought in the VTS (Vintage Tone System = torrefied top, braces + thin, matt finish), a lot of the complaints are about the look of the toasted top. Mine has a shade top finish so it is hard to see, like the Bird V and J45 V, but the natural finish models can have a bit of visible striping. And then there are the 'saved' player specials like my L-0 and your J50, for example BayouB, and that is hard to put any index on! Emotional attachment? What would Spock think? What would Spock value them at? I love the look of my L-0, but my father and his generation generally would grab it and paint it! So the torrefied top vintage style clones are emotionless currently. You could get them relic'd, or get out the chisel! Some of the Gibson LP relics come with a story like - played heavily in cared environment for jazz guitarist! You could buy a brand new Gibson L-0 that looks like exactly like my 37! Or your j50! BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bayoubengal1954 Posted September 16, 2016 Share Posted September 16, 2016 What we could use is a sound/playability/appearance index of 10 points each and a max of 30 then.... Except everyone's index is way different and some plaine wacko! Now the Martin Authentics would be way up the scale in the first 2, but since they brought in the VTS (Vintage Tone System = torrefied top, braces + thin, matt finish), a lot of the complaints are about the look of the toasted top. Mine has a shade top finish so it is hard to see, like the Bird V and J45 V, but the natural finish models can have a bit of visible striping. And then there are the 'saved' player specials like my L-0 and your J50, for example BayouB, and that is hard to put any index on! Emotional attachment? What would Spock think? What would Spock value them at? I love the look of my L-0, but my father and his generation generally would grab it and paint it! So the torrefied top vintage style clones are emotionless currently. You could get them relic'd, or get out the chisel! Some of the Gibson LP relics come with a story like - played heavily in cared environment for jazz guitarist! You could buy a brand new Gibson L-0 that looks like exactly like my 37! Or your j50! BluesKing777. No disagreement on this, BK. To get my money, the builders need to stop gauging buyers (yes, I went there ) on the upcharge for the cooked tops which is way out of proportion to the actual cost. Otherwise I might as well spend my money on the emotion filled vintage resurrection project. In all seriousness, I'm not really upset with the builders trying to maximize revenue with the huge upcharge for the cooked top guitars. It is the market at play. For me, I choose not to pay their price. Others will. Everybody gets what they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 Truth is BayouB, the guitar companies are making some incredible guitars these days! If they want it sound like a guitar from 1923, they pretty well can. When I was a kid, all the school guys that played guitar mooned over 1. Strat 2. Les Paul 3. Martin D45 (CSNY) 4. J45. But later as I got in to blues of all kinds, Gibson L-0/L-1/L-00/J45, Martin OM/000/00. But they were all made of unobtanium. So we played what we could get, really, and this town was and probably still is, dreadnaughtville. Brand new. At 3 times the price of the US because 3 people made billions selling Iron and Coal and kept it or lost it. Bottom line - a needed refret of an acoustic guitar at my local guy is $375! So the new Martin 000-17 Black Smoke at 3 times the price is great with the 1 3/4"nut and nice board with nice frets....... and that new J50 Vintage at list delivered to my door would amount to $AU6,798.78 BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tman Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 I never thought I'd see this thread again! In fact, I forgot it existed! Maybe I should read what I wrote going on a year now. Some nespresso intenso for work tomorrow sounds pretty darn nice, though... Dang, now I want a J-45 Vintage... Why'd you guys have to resurrect this thread! Wow I didn't even realize it was a necropost. ..Just goes to show you....you never know when something might be resurrected. With or without Nespresso. Or...People actually go back and read through all of this stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bayoubengal1954 Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 Truth is BayouB, the guitar companies are making some incredible guitars these days! If they want it sound like a guitar from 1923, they pretty well can. When I was a kid, all the school guys that played guitar mooned over 1. Strat 2. Les Paul 3. Martin D45 (CSNY) 4. J45. But later as I got in to blues of all kinds, Gibson L-0/L-1/L-00/J45, Martin OM/000/00. But they were all made of unobtanium. So we played what we could get, really, and this town was and probably still is, dreadnaughtville. Brand new. At 3 times the price of the US because 3 people made billions selling Iron and Coal and kept it or lost it. Bottom line - a needed refret of an acoustic guitar at my local guy is $375! So the new Martin 000-17 Black Smoke at 3 times the price is great with the 1 3/4"nut and nice board with nice frets....... and that new J50 Vintage at list delivered to my door would amount to $AU6,798.78 BluesKing777. I agree, we are lucky to have so many great choices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generaldreedle Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 I'll add my recent experience, when my money was burning a hole in my pocket I went to the Seattle GC, and compared my d28 with the hd28, hd28 vts (torrefied top), and hd 28 v. The vts was clearer and less booming than the hd 28v, more definition than the hd 28, and the d28. So I brought the vts home and never regretted it. Great looking top, sounds fantastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mafy31 Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 And Terrorication Yay we're getting more new words to describe the process ! [woot] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guitar Fundi Posted September 17, 2016 Share Posted September 17, 2016 They can Terrororify my tops anytime ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse_Dylan Posted September 17, 2016 Author Share Posted September 17, 2016 Wow I didn't even realize it was a necropost. ..Just goes to show you....you never know when something might be resurrected. With or without Nespresso. Or...People actually go back and read through all of this stuff. Yeah, I always get confused too! I think there was an old thread recently someone replied to. I saw it and replied to the years-old top post, trying to give advice to someone likely long gone!. Actually I resurrected it because I thought your post was informative, very thorough and very thoughtful! Thank you! That's nice of your to say! Well, as I recall, when I originally wrote it, I figured it would not get a ton of interest at the time, but I wanted there to be something for people like me who search the internet desperate for information. Maybe a forum post isn't the best way to log info for future generations, but it was the best I could think of. And, again, when I'm googling, I often come to old threads on forums. So we played what we could get, really, and this town was and probably still is, dreadnaughtville. Brand new. At 3 times the price of the US because 3 people made billions selling Iron and Coal and kept it or lost it. BK, where are you? Oz, I want to say? I always forget where everyone is. I am in the US, but what you said reminds me of where I live. We had an oil boom, which was great for oil companies, terrible for local folks, and the folks who made a fortune in the oil field mostly blew it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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