String Tension kind of hard

[Sdahe]

Hello,

 

I've been doing my own guitar's setup for a while and never had a problem until now.. It's been a long time since my last Les Paul and new I got this 2013 standard that I've been working with.. The neck is straight and the action is great but some how I feel the tension kind of hard.. considering I'm using 10's and tune halft step down... I lower the tailpiece a bit to get it closer to the wood so I don't know if that has to do anything to the string tension..

 

Any help I can get would be great... thanks!!!

[Eracer_Team]

if you lowered the tail piece then your break angle over the back of the bridge could have increased creating a higher string tension feel.

 

try top wrapping the strings over the back of the tail to the bridge to see if it feels better for you.

 

maybe could be just that set of strings, manufacturers try to get it right every time but we know bad units exist every where.

 

Hello,

 

I've been doing my own guitar's setup for a while and never had a problem until now.. It's been a long time since my last Les Paul and new I got this 2013 standard that I've been working with.. The neck is straight and the action is great but some how I feel the tension kind of hard.. considering I'm using 10's and tune halft step down... I lower the tailpiece a bit to get it closer to the wood so I don't know if that has to do anything to the string tension..

 

Any help I can get would be great... thanks!!!

 

 

 

 

 

[capmaster]

String tension is defined by gauge, scale, and pitch. The tailpiece height has no effect. It will affect the string breaking angles across the bridge saddles, but that's it.

 

Did you experiment with different string makes? Strings of same gauge but different make may feel different to the touch. Core wires and plain strings are pretty close because the tension capacity doesn't allow for significant variations of the alloy used. However, coating and wrapping wires can vary widely and thus cause a different feel.

[Sdahe]

if you lowered the tail piece then your break angle over the back of the bridge could have increased creating a higher string tension feel.

 

try top wrapping the strings over the back of the tail to the bridge to see if it feels better for you.

 

maybe could be just that set of strings, manufacturers try to get it right every time but we know bad units exist every where.

 

Thanks... I'll try new strings first since I don't like the wrap over the tail piece

[Sdahe]

String tension is defined by gauge, scale, and pitch. The tailpiece height has no effect. It will affect the string breaking angles across the bridge saddles, but that's it.

 

Did you experiment with different string makes? Strings of same gauge but different make may feel different to the touch. Core wires and plain strings are pretty close because the tension capacity doesn't allow for significant variations of the alloy used. However, coating and wrapping wires can vary widely and thus cause a different feel.

 

Thanks... yeah I'll try other string brands and see which ones feel better

[capmaster]

if you lowered the tail piece then your break angle over the back of the bridge could have increased creating a higher string tension feel.

You wouldn't feel it when fretting. Only very hard string attack would reveal that to the player's touch.

 

maybe could be just that set of strings, manufacturers try to get it right every time but we know bad units exist every where.

This is possible. A just slightly heavy coating would cause a much harder feel due to increased both mass and stiffness.

[capmaster]

Thanks... I'll try new strings first since I don't like the wrap over the tail piece

I don't know anything about their specific string material formulation, but I experienced that D'Addario strings feel harder than next to all others, in particular plains. I also found out that Gibson Brite Wires feel lighter than I would have expected for their gauges.

[Sdahe]

I don't know anything about their specific string material formulation, but I experienced that D'Addario strings feel harder than next to all others, in particular plains. I also found out that Gibson Brite Wires feel lighter than I would have expected for their gauges.

 

I'm using now Ernie Ball Regular Slinky .10

[capmaster]

I'm using now Ernie Ball Regular Slinky .10

I guess .010 Can't say anything about them because I didn't get wittingly my hands on them for many years.

[Hawkesman]

String tension is defined by gauge, scale, and pitch. The tailpiece height has no effect. It will affect the string breaking angles across the bridge saddles, but that's it.

 

 

Quite so.

 

Also, do all the strings feel like that, or just some of them? It could be that some/all of the nut slots are a bit tight for the gauge you're using. I know that EB 10-46's aren't on the large side, but I've used them for 30 years and have always found them to be remarkably consistent.

 

However there's lots of stuff/observations/criticism here on the Forum about nut slots on new Gibsons. Also, sometimes, if an owner has changed gauge, they can need a little seeing-to as well. In both cases a bit of attention to the nut can be all that's needed to let the strings have a little 'give', and prevent perceived over-tension and/or 'pinging' to flat. I've done loads of 'nut-jobs'(!) over the years for many people, and in some cases it can be a real panacea.

[Sdahe]

Quite so.

 

Also, do all the strings feel like that, or just some of them? It could be that some/all of the nut slots are a bit tight for the gauge you're using. I know that EB 10-46's aren't on the large side, but I've used them for 30 years and have always found them to be remarkably consistent.

 

However there's lots of stuff/observations/criticism here on the Forum about nut slots on new Gibsons. Also, sometimes, if an owner has changed gauge, they can need a little seeing-to as well. In both cases a bit of attention to the nut can be all that's needed to let the strings have a little 'give', and prevent perceived over-tension and/or 'pinging' to flat. I've done loads of 'nut-jobs'(!) over the years for many people, and in some cases it can be a real panacea.

 

Well the guitar came new with .10 strings and I haven't change the gauge.. I applyed Lubrikit to the nut so the strings can move easy... I'm going to change the strings and see what happens

 

Thanks!!!

[Hawkesman]

Well the guitar came new with .10 strings and I haven't change the gauge.. I applyed Lubrikit to the nut so the strings can move easy... I'm going to change the strings and see what happens

 

Thanks!!!

 

Worth a try, and it might work, but if you use the same gauge it may remain the same. Also, even lube may not entirely stop a tight slot from 'pinching' the string, though it might alleviate it somewhat. Maybe try a lighter gauge to see whether that helps? If it does, but you want to continue using 10's, then the slots may need to be re-profiled slightly. In terms of lube, I tend to use a tiny smear of automotive graphite grease. Works really well, and lasts too!

 

Good luck.

[stein]

String tension is defined by gauge, scale, and pitch. The tailpiece height has no effect.

 

 

True.

 

Worth repeating over and over, because many THINK there are ways to change tension by lowering tailpiece, etc.

[stein]

String tension is defined by gauge, scale, and pitch. The tailpiece height has no effect. It will affect the string breaking angles across the bridge saddles, but that's it.

 

Did you experiment with different string makes? Strings of same gauge but different make may feel different to the touch. Core wires and plain strings are pretty close because the tension capacity doesn't allow for significant variations of the alloy used. However, coating and wrapping wires can vary widely and thus cause a different feel.

 

 

I'm using now Ernie Ball Regular Slinky .10

 

 

I guess .010 Can't say anything about them because I didn't get wittingly my hands on them for many years.

It's very true that different string "types" from different makers have different levels "give" to them, different stiffness. Some stretch easier, and some are more resistant to stretching.

 

Slinky's, however, are the ones that have the most give, as far as I know.

[stein]

Quite so.

 

Also, do all the strings feel like that, or just some of them? It could be that some/all of the nut slots are a bit tight for the gauge you're using. I know that EB 10-46's aren't on the large side, but I've used them for 30 years and have always found them to be remarkably consistent.

 

However there's lots of stuff/observations/criticism here on the Forum about nut slots on new Gibsons. Also, sometimes, if an owner has changed gauge, they can need a little seeing-to as well. In both cases a bit of attention to the nut can be all that's needed to let the strings have a little 'give', and prevent perceived over-tension and/or 'pinging' to flat. I've done loads of 'nut-jobs'(!) over the years for many people, and in some cases it can be a real panacea.

I am wondering if it is the nut, but not so much binding, but the height of the strings at the nut.

 

It's true Gibson doesn't always do a good job, or a "finished" job on the nut. A high action at the nut will feel like higher action all the way up, because you have to press the string down further from "open".

 

Even if the action might seem good to you, and the bridge is low enough and the neck is straight, it's pretty easy to overlook how high the strings are off the fretbaord at the nut, because we usually take that for granted.

[cjsinla]

Here's what Gibson says about tailpiece height. I would be surprised if the height had absolutely no effect on anything. The OP lowered it a little and perceived a difference; my advice is to raise it back up and see. Most people lower it to increase sustain but unless you take it all the way down I doubt you will get any change in sustain. My guess is that a higher tailpiece allows for more movement of the string through the saddle.

 

Stringing your LP

[Sdahe]

Here's what Gibson says about tailpiece height. I would be surprised if the height had absolutely no effect on anything. The OP lowered it a little and perceived a difference; my advice is to raise it back up and see. Most people lower it to increase sustain but unless you take it all the way down I doubt you will get any change in sustain. My guess is that a higher tailpiece allows for more movement of the string through the saddle.

 

Stringing your LP

 

That was very nice info there... thanks

[capmaster]

... I would be surprised if the height had absolutely no effect on anything. ...

There's a subtle effect on tone, and a similar subtle one an sustain. Any A/B comparison may lack because different points of the strings will have contact to the saddles. When lowering tailpiece, it will take time until the strings breaking curvatures will have settled, and in case of raising the tailpiece any comparison using the same strings will fail. They will never "forget" their break-point which is now within the vibrating scale range.

 

Take a guitar with an intonation adjusted sharp. You will never get a proper adjustment using the given string. It will take adjusting flat, using a new string, waiting several days and cautious readjustment. Instant solutions may work for the given string and a short period only.

 

I remember a bandmate entering a professional studio in 1982 after having restrung his Strat using a different string brand. I already knew then very well what to do, but it was hell to achieve a "recording grade" setup. Several times of rework were required within a few hours only.

 

All in all, it's better to beware of hasty conclusions. Most of the tailpiece height thing is cultivated myth. Tailpiece designs, constructions and materials are completely different stories.

[btoth76]

...

Did you experiment with different string makes? Strings of same gauge but different make may feel different to the touch. Core wires and plain strings are pretty close because the tension capacity doesn't allow for significant variations of the alloy used. However, coating and wrapping wires can vary widely and thus cause a different feel.

 

Yes, very true.

 

I have just put on a set of 11-48 Ernie Ball Slinkys on my Tele for the very first time. The shop didn't had my favorite Rotosounds in that gauge. It feels super tough. They won't be on too long, for sure.

 

Cheers... Bence

[capmaster]

Yes, very true.

 

I have just put on a set of 11-48 Ernie Ball Slinkys on my Tele for the very first time. The shop didn't had my favorite Rotosounds in that gauge. It feels super tough. They won't be on too long, for sure.

 

Cheers... Bence

Do you mean the .011 Roto Red sets? Don't know about the Ernie Ball's in question but can confirm the Roto Reds feel very comfortable. A paradise for passionated string benders...

[btoth76]

Do you mean the .011 Roto Red sets? Don't know about the Ernie Ball's in question but can confirm the Roto Reds feel very comfortable. A paradise for passionated string benders...

 

Indeed! :)

 

Red package for the Tele, yellow for the Gibsons. ;)

 

Best wishes... Bence

[capmaster]

Indeed! :)

 

Red package for the Tele, yellow for the Gibsons. ;)

 

Best wishes... Bence

:) The Roto Yellows feel even more comfortable, let alone at 24.75" scale common on Gibsons.

[btoth76]

:) The Roto Yellows feel even more comfortable, let alone at 24.75" scale common on Gibsons.

 

Yes, I am weird, I know. Going for thicker strings on the guitar with longer scale is not a logical decision. But, - strangely - that's how the Tele sounds the best (to me). Gibsons are perfect with the 10-46s. However, my latest addition, the Strat Deluxe sounded great with 9-42s out of the box, so I will keep on using those on it.

 

Cheers... Bence

[capmaster]

Yes, I am weird, I know. Going for thicker strings on the guitar with longer scale is not a logical decision. But, - strangely - that's how the Tele sounds the best (to me). Gibsons are perfect with the 10-46s. However, my latest addition, the Strat Deluxe sounded great with 9-42s out of the box, so I will keep on using those on it.

 

Cheers... Bence

In my belief it isn't weird in any respect, it's your taste, and as usual, de gustibus non disputandum

 

When about string gauges on solidbodies, for me it is mostly about hardtail or vibrato, regardless if 24.75" or 25.5" scale length. My hardtails are strung .011" - .050". My vibrato guitars, except for the Frank Zappa "Roxy" SG model all Floyd Rose equipped, have .010" - .046" on them.

 

No logical decision here, too. In both cases I simply like the feel. B)

[merciful-evans]

This is very interesting to me, because I had the same issue with a strat I had for many years. I dropped the string gauge to 9-42 and removed all the springs, but the string tension was tremendous. String bends were VERY hard and vibrato was almost pointless to attempt.

 

I hope you get this bottomed out. I know its frustrating.