VincentG Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Hej! I have a fantastic J-45 standard I bought a few months ago (July 2015) and I am interested in switching those heavy grovers to tulips or white butter beans tuners. I am also taking out the UST pickup and trying a bone saddle. I wondered if you guys that already changed tuners on a J-45 can advice me on tuners that would be a direct drop in and hopefully stay in tune as good or better than the stock grovers? I also wonder where I could put my hands on such tuners in Europe (I live in Sweden)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroAussie Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Never, ever put Tulips on a slope Gibson. Thats strictly for squares and super jumbos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Never, ever put Tulips on a slope Gibson. Thats strictly for squares and super jumbos. I might have to agree. You ALWAYS want to be able to put back to original. Tulips look so good it's impossible to go back to white butterbeans or grovers once the change is made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorrisrownSal Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 I swapped tuners on my J50, and I also did on my prior Southern Jumbo True Vintage - which had tulips. In both cases, the tuners I swapped with are the StewMac Golden Age Restoration Tuners. They are bout $60 versus $150 for Waverlies, and they work fine. If any of you have played, or own the Martin CEO7, these Golden Age tuners are on that guitar. By the way I dropped my J50 today with Brother's Music in Wind Gap PA... the guitar will get a few tweeks... repair an eaten-into bridge plate, dress some frets, take out the UST, put in a K&K, and have a nice new intonated saddle made. It will take a while, but I cant wait till its done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 You may need to get conversion bushing for your new tuners. Most Grovers leave a large hole in the peghead when the Grover bushings are removed: 10 mm or more, I believe. Stewmac has conversion bushings in several sizes to suit different original peghead hole sizes and replacement tuner post sizes. I'm not a fan of tulip buttons on a J-45. Oval plastic buttons, either white or aged, are more "correct" for the J-45, but use whatever suits you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62burst Posted February 24, 2016 Share Posted February 24, 2016 Never, ever put Tulips on a slope Gibson. Thats strictly for squares and super jumbos. Never say never with Gibson: Recognize the diamond and arrows?? Good to have you report back in, Vincent. Pay no mind to Mr. EuroAussie, he just needs another enjoyable night playing the Prague Hard Rock and he'll be happy again. Hey, it's a Gibson- and an automatic attitude adjustment comes included. All you say about going to the tulips, and losing the onboard luggage sounds good to these ears. No this isn't something to be done to an heirloom collector piece, which were admittedly just new guitars at one time, but it's your guitar. The six additional little holes (original Rotos= 1 screw/per tuner) you'll have to make 'round back using masking tape around the drill bit to serve as a depth gauge won't be the end of the world. As Nick suggested, the StewMac conversion bushings 3/8", StewMac part 3458 R, or whatever matches your tulips will suffice. But these Grovers (believe forumite BluesKing777 has them on something) . . . . . . have the same 9.91mm hole diameter in the headstock of the typical Roto, and wouldn't require bushing. The evidence of people interacting with that guitar over the years will be part of it's story. Enjoy your guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Never say never with Gibson: Recognize the diamond and arrows?? Good to have you report back in, Vincent. Pay no mind to Mr. EuroAussie, he just needs another enjoyable night playing the Prague Hard Rock and he'll be happy again. Hey, it's a Gibson- and an automatic attitude adjustment comes included. All you say about going to the tulips, and losing the onboard luggage sounds good to these ears. No this isn't something to be done to an heirloom collector piece, which were admittedly just new guitars at one time, but it's your guitar. The six additional little holes (original Rotos= 1 screw/per tuner) you'll have to make 'round back using masking tape around the drill bit to serve as a depth gauge won't be the end of the world. As Nick suggested, the StewMac conversion bushings 3/8", StewMac part 3458 R, or whatever matches your tulips will suffice. But these Grovers (believe forumite BluesKing777 has them on something) . . . . . . have the same 9.91mm hole diameter in the headstock of the typical Roto, and wouldn't require bushing. The evidence of people interacting with that guitar over the years will be part of it's story. Enjoy your guitar. The only guitar I have those Grover Deluxes on, is my black Hummingbird copy. A friend got 2 of these things and I bought one from him. When I went to tune it up, the machines were on upside down and backwards and unlikely to work ever. I took the guitar to my local guy and he had a good laugh with his apprentice, and I asked if he had any real Tulip styles and he had a set of the Grover Deluxes and sold them to me! They work beautifully, but alas, the guitar doesn't. I was going to use it as a beater, but recently I was going to a beach holiday, looked at it, thought...hmmmmmm. And took my LG3... On the J45 tuner issue, can't we just change the buttons to little cream ovals and keep the rest? Edit: Looked these up for you..bit metro but... but some wild and crazy Roto buttons here: http://www.crazyparts.de/sports/mode/tunerbuttons/index.php BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uh66 Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 My 1998 Early J-45 has beautiful Gibson/Kluson Tulip Tuners, with the small washers on the headstock. They work great, and look great, and also put a special, little Beatles J-160-vibe to the guitar, which I really like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 I'm not a fan of tulip buttons on a J-45. Oval plastic buttons, either white or aged, are more "correct" for the J-45, but use whatever suits you. I don't want to give false impressions. By "correct", it SHOULD be understood that if one wants to use what the original J-45 used, they made them with the cheap and cheap looking white plastic "butterbean" ones. Those are proper for a vintage J-45. Me...I'm just saying. It's a NICE guitar. To me they look much better than the cheap guitar they were originally meant to be. I don't think Gibson used the "correct" tuners in the beginning, like back in the 40's or whatever. They deserve better. We all do. Not everyone gets a trophy, and I don't have a sense of entitlement, but I think every Gibson has a right to tulips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Butter bean tuners on a j45! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentG Posted February 25, 2016 Author Share Posted February 25, 2016 It's actually when I saw this video that I thought that tulips on a J45 may not be so ugly! I am not set on the tulips and butter beans are still an alternative. I do feel though that whatever I put on, I don't want it to be too much trouble. I mean I don't it to be complicated to install and require much work maybe from a professional. And I sure don't want to compromise on the precision or stability of the tuning (especially that I mainly fingerpick and plain on playing with all kind of open tunings). Thanks you all for your tips, I will look into those grovers deluxe 135 and the Kluson WD90NPP as well. Open backed tuners is really a beautiful thing but feels like a compromise so it probably isn't for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentG Posted February 28, 2016 Author Share Posted February 28, 2016 I swapped tuners on my J50, and I also did on my prior Southern Jumbo True Vintage - which had tulips. In both cases, the tuners I swapped with are the StewMac Golden Age Restoration Tuners. They are bout $60 versus $150 for Waverlies, and they work fine. If any of you have played, or own the Martin CEO7, these Golden Age tuners are on that guitar. By the way I dropped my J50 today with Brother's Music in Wind Gap PA... the guitar will get a few tweeks... repair an eaten-into bridge plate, dress some frets, take out the UST, put in a K&K, and have a nice new intonated saddle made. It will take a while, but I cant wait till its done. Would you tell me which one exactly was it you bought? And did you buy bushings? Did you made extra holes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave F Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 Never say never with Gibson: Doesn't this look better than them Tulips on an AJ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62burst Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 Doesn't this look better than them Tulips on an AJ? Well . . . you have a point, there. The tulips and faded white plastic buttons just have a better feel to me. And I check tuning a lot. And sometimes feel and comfort out-prioritize appearances. Judging by this recently shared photo of Tom and Mrs Tom on a hot day, I'd bet cotton felt better than sticking to the lower bout of this guitar. Probably wasn't worried about smudging that fine-rubbed lacquer finish: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ponty Posted February 28, 2016 Share Posted February 28, 2016 All early -mid 90s J-45s had tulips. Ater they wore out on my guitars I swapped them out for white buttons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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