Dead Strings Come To Life

[Victory Pete]

It is so fascinating that no matter what I post, there are always the same people who will argue, ridicule and insult. That's fine, I am quite comfortable and confident in what I have been learning all these years. It must be difficult living like those people do, belligerent and negative all the time.

 

 

 

 

I didn't prove any point at all

 

It shows what happens to a string when it's hung from a vice

That's all

 

You did prove my point, a few times. It shows how old and new strings vary in their pitch under the same tension. This difference is due to the older string being more stiff for the same pitch.

 

 

 

 

 

[blindboygrunt]

You did prove my point, a few times. It shows how old and new strings vary in their pitch under the same tension. This difference is due to the older string being more stiff for the same pitch.

 

But you're experimenting with components outside their environment

[Victory Pete]

But you're experimenting with components outside their environment

 

No, the experiments are done right in a guitar shop. Rosewood and Mahogany everywhere!

[blindboygrunt]

No, the experiments are done right in a guitar shop. Rosewood and Mahogany everywhere!

 

That's a bit lame pete

[Victory Pete]

It is so fascinating that no matter what I post, there are always the same people who will argue, ridicule and insult. That's fine, I am quite comfortable and confident in what I have been learning all these years. It must be difficult living like those people do, belligerent and negative all the time.

 

 

 

 

That's a bit lame pete

 

Again thanks.

 

 

 

[blindboygrunt]

Again thanks.

 

No need to thank me

 

Your experiment you just mentioned is akin to testing car tyres in an oven to test for heat resistance on the road attached to a car

[OldCowboy]

😒😌😔😳😴

[Mojorule]

But a brand new string which has not been stretched out will go flat under tension. Did you get this result after stretching out the new string, Pete?

[Victory Pete]

But a brand new string which has not been stretched out will go flat under tension. Did you get this result after stretching out the new string, Pete?

 

The string has been stretched for a while now, same results. I will check often.

[Victory Pete]

No need to thank me

 

Your experiment you just mentioned is akin to testing car tyres in an oven to test for heat resistance on the road attached to a car

 

Your post is akin to someone saying that an oven that has no tires cant possibly have any pudding cause they didn't have no meat.

[blindboygrunt]

Your post is akin to someone saying that an oven that has no tires cant possibly have any pudding cause they didn't have no meat.

 

That's probably the most sensible thing you have posted since gracing the forum with your knowledge

[Victory Pete]

That's probably the most sensible thing you have posted since gracing the forum with your knowledge

 

It figures you, you seem to be fluent in Jibberish.

[Victory Pete]

Another observant fellow:

 

 

 

 

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=304315&page=2

 

 

 

[blindboygrunt]

It figures you, you seem to be fluent in Jibberish.

 

I've a masters degree in it

[blindboygrunt]

Your theories are nothing more than theories

They're not even good theories

They're backed up with garden shed workshop scenarios

 

How do expect to be taken seriously ?

Just because someone puts a white coat on and shoves a lot of pens in the pocket doesn't make them some sort of professor

 

No matter what you have suggested ,from the glorious day you started preaching on this forum , you have been completely closed minded about anyone else's theory on any of your points.

 

And , icing on the cake made from waffle and BS , no one cares about your strings

[Victory Pete]

Your theories are nothing more than theories

They're not even good theories

They're backed up with garden shed workshop scenarios

 

How do expect to be taken seriously ?

Just because someone puts a white coat on and shoves a lot of pens in the pocket doesn't make them some sort of professor

 

No matter what you have suggested ,from the glorious day you started preaching on this forum , you have been completely closed minded about anyone else's theory on any of your points.

 

And , icing on the cake made from waffle and BS , no one cares about your strings

 

I don't, not from many in this crowd, but in real life I have many customers who take me very seriously. All I get from many here is just belligerent arguments on everything I say, everything, no maybes, no It might, it is always: Nope! Wrong! Sound familiar? So it is me that do not take many of you seriously. To the reasonable people here who are thoughtful and genuine, I thank you very much. Also I changed my strings on the ES-335, they are so easy to play and bend because they are more flexible than old strings. It is quite obvious just by playing it.

[fortyearspickn]

VP,

Your main point from your Original Comment:

"3 week old strings on brand new J45C... Started sounding dead tonight" and

"after an hour, they had some zing to them" and

"if you completely de-tune strings one at a time and bring them back up, some of the zing will be back for awhile".

And your comment to the observation that guitars (i.e. the wood) open up after being played awhile:

"Right, I have heard that the wood opens up as you play."

And another great one:

"Temperature and humidity haven't changed. It started when they reached the end of their useful life anyway."

 

After these points from your first 3 or 4 posts, the rest is more argument back and forth with responses, than hypothesis.

 

Your first barrage was completely based on the word 'sounding".

That alone, when linked with words like "dead" and "zing", moved your entire point into the realm of pure subjectivity.

 

My favorite - "I have heard that the wood opens up as you play." seems to indicate that a more basic, proven fact affecting tome is not anywhere on your radar.

 

And, finally - You stated the temperature didn't change on the guitar - as you played it and 'zing was restored'. I would suggest that your body temperature is about 25 degrees warmer than room temp and holding the guitar will absolutely and significantly warm up the guitar. And, I won't even ask where you got the 'useful life' spec for whatever strings it is your using.

 

Although others have hinted at it - I'll be more direct and use your exact wording form your original comment. You have an impressive Wall of great, new guitars. "Just play the damn thing."

[blindboygrunt]

I fear you're wasting breath (or finger skin) here

 

Pete is another In a long line of this ilk , who know fine well what they are doing. Revelling in an Internet row. Usually resulting in some poor bugger who gets barred from getting frustrated at the crazy theories.

 

My grievance with this sort of thread is that some kid comes on to these forums to get knowledge and ends up with a head full of stuff and nonsense.

 

Let's hope the next information seeker reads between the lines of this thread

[olie]

I fear you're wasting breath (or finger skin) here

 

Pete is another In a long line of this ilk , who know fine well what they are doing. Revelling in an Internet row. Usually resulting in some poor bugger who gets barred from getting frustrated at the crazy theories.

 

My grievance with this sort of thread is that some kid comes on to these forums to get knowledge and ends up with a head full of stuff and nonsense.

 

Let's hope the next information seeker reads between the lines of this thread

I think I'd need Albanian Braille!

[OldCowboy]

I get resorting to our little friends: 😩😴 and their like when normal communication seems to be completely ineffectual. That's not always the case, but these threads have a way of going there.

[Victory Pete]

Checked the experiment again. Same results, even after the new string has been hanging with 11 pounds on it for 2 days. The thing about science and facts, it is repeatable and dependable.

[blindboygrunt]

Checked the experiment again. Same results, even after the new string has been hanging with 11 pounds on it for 2 days. The thing about science and facts, it is repeatable and dependable.

 

Ah that's it sorted then

Good work

[capmaster]

... Also I changed my strings on the ES-335, they are so easy to play and bend because they are more flexible than old strings. It is quite obvious just by playing it.

Here's what I just did.

 

I took my most seldom played guitar off the shelf. She is a black Suzuki EL-600, a set-neck Les Paul copy, probably made of nato, with rosewood fretboard and arched (hollow) maple top made in Japan I bought new in 1980. She has been my main guitar from December 1980 to September 1982 and has some fret wear. I soon had replaced the microphonic stock pickups with a DiMarzio PAF in the neck and a 4-conductor wired Seymour Duncan SH-5 Duncan Custom in the bridge position and have coil split option with only the screw coil closer to the bridge in operation.

 

Now the more recent history: I restrung her the last time on 06 July 2012 with .010"-.046" roundwound Maxima Chrome strings. The brand is called Optima since the mid-1990's but these strings I used were a Maxima keepsake, made in 1986 and on the shelf until use, that is 26 years. The last time I played this guitar was on 20 February 2016.

 

The guitar was readily playable, had a bright tone as always, the strings were easy to bend, and the tuning has been off between 5 cents sharp (E1st) and 7 cents sharp (E6th), with everything else somewhere in between, so she sounded quite nice. I played her for about 15 minutes, beat and bent the hell out of the strings, and they kept sounding and feeling the same. They even stayed exactly as sharp as before, and then I finally tuned them a tweak down. There was no sticking at the Nylon nut - perhaps I should add that I have never used any lubricants on any guitar or bass nut.

 

Strings of this make and gauge are on nine more guitars of mine, and I found out that there is one more I had played the last time on 20 February 2016. She is a pearl red Ibanez RG 430, a bolt-on neck Strat-style guitar with basswood body, maple neck and rosewood fretboard made in Japan I bought new in mid-1987. My main instrument from then on until mid-2012, she is my most played guitar ever and possibly will stay that forever. Basically she is a case for refretting. Her stock Ibanez Edge Floyd Rose system still is state-of-the-art until today, the three stock Super 7F single coil pickups are very close to real Strat pickups with more treble, more bass and higher output despite of lower inductance due to their double ceramic bar magnet design (which interestingly Fender uses for their MIM "Standard" Stratocaster pickups). I modded her with a 4PDT switch switching from 5-way selector to bridge and middle pickup (which is reverse wound/revers polarity for hum cancelling) in series and same time shutting off the tone control.

 

Now again the more recent history: I restrung her the last time on 06 May 2012 with .010"-.046" roundwound Optima Chrome strings made in 2000 and on the shelf until use, that is twelve years. As mentioned before, I also played this guitar the last time on 20 February 2016.

 

The guitar also was readily playable, had a bright tone as always, the strings were playable and bendable as usual. The tuning has been off between 1 cent sharp (E1st) and 3 cents sharp (E6th), with everything else somewhere in between, so she sounded quite nice, too. Like I did with my Suzuki, I played the Ibanez for about 15 minutes, beat and bent the hell out of the strings, and they kept sounding and feeling the same. They also stayed as sharp as before, and then I finally tuned them correctly. As you may guess, it was about a very small fraction of a turn of each fine tuner only.

 

Finally I played the Fender FR Stratocaster of mine that had the longest hiatus of all of my Strats, since 09 November 2016. She is modded with Fender Vintage Noiseless SSS, Graph Tech Ghost piezo Floyd Rose bridge and active Acousti-Phonic circuit. Her last restringing was on 11 September 2015 with .010"-.046" roundwound Optima Chrome strings made in 2012 and on the shelf for three years.

 

Like on all of my guitars in regular use the strings were slightly flat, between 2 and 5 cents in this case, due to an intense seasonal humidity drop during the previous weeks - the four of my hygrometers on the guitar shelves changed from around 65% to 42% since early November. (The effect of course has been different for the other two guitars because on 20 February this year the humidity probably was below the current one.) I tuned the Strat and played her for a while, mainly listening to the piezos only. The strings played and bent well, they sounded bright and clear, nothing was missing or unusual.

 

Perhaps I should mention that all of my guitars are always stored in cases, standing on the treble side until mid-2013 and flat on the back side since then. This way dust is not a concern. I obviously have a very string-friendly skin chemistry allowing for quite long periods of string use. The guitars I play very often had their latest string changes between mid-2013 and early 2016.

 

My experiences through 36 years say that solid-body (!) guitars made completely or partly of sapwoods undergo much more significant changes during their early years than the strings do during the same period. I have posted some threads about that here and know well what it means not to be taken seriously. However, all of my sonic observations are as objective as can be. I always practice and listen via magnetic and whenever applicable (on my seven hybrid solid-bodies) piezo pickups straight without any EQ through headphones, and since the air between closed earcans and eardrums is quite the same through the seasons, there is no difference in air that could affect sound transmission. In general the sound is the brighter, the warmer and the more humid the air is.

 

All in all, strings of same make manufactured in 1986, in 2000, and in 2012, thus 30 years, 16 years, or four years old, first used after 26 years, 12 years or three years in stock, behave quite the same when played after circa four years tuned to pitch after a 42 weeks hiatus, or after circa 15 months tuned to pitch after a five weeks hiatus.

 

The majority of my guitars is strung with .011"-.050" of same brand and make and would to my guess lead to no other result. Their strings have all been made in 2011 or later though.

[Victory Pete]

Here's what I just did.

 

I took my most seldom played guitar off the shelf. She is a black Suzuki EL-600, a set-neck Les Paul copy, probably made of nato, with rosewood fretboard and arched (hollow) maple top made in Japan I bought new in 1980. She has been my main guitar from December 1980 to September 1982 and has some fret wear. I soon had replaced the microphonic stock pickups with a DiMarzio PAF in the neck and a 4-conductor wired Seymour Duncan SH-5 Duncan Custom in the bridge position and have coil split option with only the screw coil closer to the bridge in operation.

 

Now the more recent history: I restrung her the last time on 06 July 2012 with .010"-.046" roundwound Maxima Chrome strings. The brand is called Optima since the mid-1990's but these strings I used were a Maxima keepsake, made in 1986 and on the shelf until use, that is 26 years. The last time I played this guitar was on 20 February 2016.

 

The guitar was readily playable, had a bright tone as always, the strings were easy to bend, and the tuning has been off between 5 cents sharp (E1st) and 7 cents sharp (E6th), with everything else somewhere in between, so she sounded quite nice. I played her for about 15 minutes, beat and bent the hell out of the strings, and they kept sounding and feeling the same. They even stayed exactly as sharp as before, and then I finally tuned them a tweak down. There was no sticking at the Nylon nut - perhaps I should add that I have never used any lubricants on any guitar or bass nut.

 

Strings of this make and gauge are on nine more guitars of mine, and I found out that there is one more I had played the last time on 20 February 2016. She is a pearl red Ibanez RG 430, a bolt-on neck Strat-style guitar with basswood body, maple neck and rosewood fretboard made in Japan I bought new in mid-1987. My main instrument from then on until mid-2012, she is my most played guitar ever and possibly will stay that forever. Basically she is a case for refretting. Her stock Ibanez Edge Floyd Rose system still is state-of-the-art until today, the three stock Super 7F single coil pickups are very close to real Strat pickups with more treble, more bass and higher output despite of lower inductance due to their double ceramic bar magnet design (which interestingly Fender uses for their MIM "Standard" Stratocaster pickups). I modded her with a 4PDT switch switching from 5-way selector to bridge and middle pickup (which is reverse wound/revers polarity for hum cancelling) in series and same time shutting off the tone control.

 

Now again the more recent history: I restrung her the last time on 06 May 2012 with .010"-.046" roundwound Optima Chrome strings made in 2000 and on the shelf until use, that is twelve years. As mentioned before, I also played this guitar the last time on 20 February 2016.

 

The guitar also was readily playable, had a bright tone as always, the strings were playable and bendable as usual. The tuning has been off between 1 cent sharp (E1st) and 3 cents sharp (E6th), with everything else somewhere in between, so she sounded quite nice, too. Like I did with my Suzuki, I played the Ibanez for about 15 minutes, beat and bent the hell out of the strings, and they kept sounding and feeling the same. They also stayed as sharp as before, and then I finally tuned them correctly. As you may guess, it was about a very small fraction of a turn of each fine tuner only.

 

Finally I played the Fender FR Stratocaster of mine that had the longest hiatus of all of my Strats, since 09 November 2016. She is modded with Fender Vintage Noiseless SSS, Graph Tech Ghost piezo Floyd Rose bridge and active Acousti-Phonic circuit. Her last restringing was on 11 September 2015 with .010"-.046" roundwound Optima Chrome strings made in 2012 and on the shelf for three years.

 

Like on all of my guitars in regular use the strings were slightly flat, between 2 and 5 cents in this case, due to an intense seasonal humidity drop during the previous weeks - the four of my hygrometers on the guitar shelves changed from around 65% to 42% since early November. (The effect of course has been different for the other two guitars because on 20 February this year the humidity probably was below the current one.) I tuned the Strat and played her for a while, mainly listening to the piezos only. The strings played and bent well, they sounded bright and clear, nothing was missing or unusual.

 

Perhaps I should mention that all of my guitars are always stored in cases, standing on the treble side until mid-2013 and flat on the back side since then. This way dust is not a concern. I obviously have a very string-friendly skin chemistry allowing for quite long periods of string use. The guitars I play very often had their latest string changes between mid-2013 and early 2016.

 

My experiences through 36 years say that solid-body (!) guitars made completely or partly of sapwoods undergo much more significant changes during their early years than the strings do during the same period. I have posted some threads about that here and know well what it means not to be taken seriously. However, all of my sonic observations are as objective as can be. I always practice and listen via magnetic and whenever applicable (on my seven hybrid solid-bodies) piezo pickups straight without any EQ through headphones, and since the air between closed earcans and eardrums is quite the same through the seasons, there is no difference in air that could affect sound transmission. In general the sound is the brighter, the warmer and the more humid the air is.

 

All in all, strings of same make manufactured in 1986, in 2000, and in 2012, thus 30 years, 16 years, or four years old, first used after 26 years, 12 years or three years in stock, behave quite the same when played after circa four years tuned to pitch after a 42 weeks hiatus, or after circa 15 months tuned to pitch after a five weeks hiatus.

 

The majority of my guitars is strung with .011"-.050" of same brand and make and would to my guess lead to no other result. Their strings have all been made in 2011 or later though.

 

That was a bit of TMI, but I understand. In your case I would consider them all old, try changing the strings today and then comparing. I find many people do agree strings only last a month or so, that is when they always sound their best.

[capmaster]

That was a bit of TMI, but I understand. In your case I would consider them all old, try changing the strings today and then comparing. I find many people do agree strings only last a month or so, that is when they always sound their best.

This time I keep it short.

 

The cores of wound guitar strings and all the plain strings are made from well-standardised piano wire aka music wire (ASTM A228, DIN 17223, EN 10270-1). No other wire has the tensile strength required, and a 650mm respectively circa 25.5" G octave string on a 12-string guitar is quite close to the limit of elasticity when tuned to pitch.

 

Now I ask you: At what age would you rate piano strings old? Would you change the strings of a piano every month?