Roach Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 By de-tuning, I mean going flat. Forgive me if this sounds patronising but I am only trying to get this straight in my head. I assume you are tuning the strings upward? IOW, tuning to pitch having begun from a lower note? So having tuned eBGDA upward to pitch, you then tune the low E upward to pitch. At this point you find the A has raised in pitch & become sharp? --------- YES... EXACTLY ----------- If I have described that correctly, then I have no idea what is going on. If the neck is not holding tension (cracked) then tuning a string upward would make another string go flat. What you seem to be describing is that raising your low E in pitch, also raises your A string in pitch. Any chance of a picture of the headstock & tuners? Though the best thing of all would be a video of the A & E tuning. I'm sure that would get plenty of interest here because its so bizarre a problem. PS. Did the Gotoh 510s come fitted from the factory, or have they replaced something else? BTW this thread is a repeat of one already posted before. A pretty much exact (even the same pictures) was posted earlier this year. Why? I can only think of one reason. For that reason I would not worry about it, but if you want to begin a new one, just post a link back to this one. That is correct i tune from a lower pitch, UP to the pitch. Then do the other string, doesnt matter if A or E is first, it will raise the pitch to sharp of the other string, at first I believed stretching and hesitating a moment would allow time for tension to even out, but it still occurs like i described. Changing either A or E causes the other to go sharp. I apply pressure to the string on the tuner side of the nut and stretch it as well as at the bridge. I use lube from d'addario called friction remover, even had some lithium grease lube back in 2015. I checked for cracks in neck. none. I did not get around to measuring the nut height i did however, lower it until the open string buzzed and then slow raised it until it didn't buzz at regular plucking. It didnt change anything other than slightly lowered the action on that end. I do not have the video savvy to make and upload such a video, but i think you are right, nobody really knows what is doing this. My guitar guy first accused the nut, (the brass one had same problem), and then he did some fine filing work on the titanium one. I am wondering if he wasnt too cautious of over doing it that he didnt do enough being how hard titanium is to shape... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merciful-evans Posted January 7, 2018 Share Posted January 7, 2018 I checked for cracks in neck. none. I did not get around to measuring the nut height i did however, lower it until the open string buzzed and then slow raised it until it didn't buzz at regular plucking. It didnt change anything other than slightly lowered the action on that end. I do not have the video savvy to make and upload such a video, but i think you are right, nobody really knows what is doing this. My guitar guy first accused the nut, (the brass one had same problem), and then he did some fine filing work on the titanium one. I am wondering if he wasnt too cautious of over doing it that he didnt do enough being how hard titanium is to shape... If it was a neck crack it would cause the other string to go in the opposite direction (flat), so it isn't that. If the nut is secure (not moving) then I dont see how it could be doing this. How about the bridge? if its not perfectly stable perhaps its being pulled forwards slightly when you turn the tuners? Or if its not the whole bridge moving, how about the string saddles? Are the 'A' & 'E' saddles interfering with each other when tuning? Is one dragging the other with it? There has to be a cause! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roach Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 If it was a neck crack it would cause the other string to go in the opposite direction (flat), so it isn't that. If the nut is secure (not moving) then I dont see how it could be doing this. How about the bridge? if its not perfectly stable perhaps its being pulled forwards slightly when you turn the tuners? Or if its not the whole bridge moving, how about the string saddles? Are the 'A' & 'E' saddles interfering with each other when tuning? Is one dragging the other with it? There has to be a cause! i am pretty sure the string and the nut are just not getting along for the thicker strings. I am trying to find out now if this nut from this thread is avail in black, looking forward to trying it. ...and now im noticing the paint in several places on the edges is disappearing! (side edge to bottom and top edge to side where a pickguard would be had i had one, next to the fretboard where the body top and side curve off the neck, mostly underside and side edge the biggest area...) That doesnt seem right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merciful-evans Posted January 15, 2018 Share Posted January 15, 2018 i am pretty sure the string and the nut are just not getting along for the thicker strings. I am trying to find out now if this nut from this thread is avail in black, looking forward to trying it. Unless the nut is being moved by the strings as you tune them (as in not properly secured down), the nut is not at fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revolution Six Posted January 21, 2018 Author Share Posted January 21, 2018 Where did you find this Revolution? (sry if i jacked your thread, unintentional m8) The Kluson Revolution tuners come from eBay, very easy to order and secure with Paypal. The price is correct US$ 65 shipping included Kluson Revolution # KEDP-3801C Those great machine heads are available in nickel, gold, chrome and with different knobs. I looked to your GOTOH tuners 200 US$ ... Talking about your tuning problem, some string brands don' t like the zero fret nut, a larger contact surface with the string is the solution like a standard nut. Round wound strings can be incompatible with the zero fret nut. The Graph Tech TUSQ XL adjustable nut is THE solution IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristopherJ Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 The only way for strings to go sharp is binding at the nut. You turn the tuning key to bring the string up to pitch but if the string is bound up somewhere it takes more turns from the tuner. When you strike the string the bind is released and the extra turns it took to tune up to pitch causes the string to pull sharp. Another way to look at it is that tension from the tuning peg to the nut is more than from the bridge to the nut. That extra tension is added to the enire string when played releasing the bind. The typical "tink" sound that can often be heard when tuning to up. Most likely the nut. Adding lube doesn't necessarily solve such issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 The only way for strings to go sharp is binding at the nut. Play too close to the door in a bar on a cold winter's night. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 Play too close to the door in a bar on a cold winter's night. rct Ron,, I would have thought you would generate enough of your own heat with your face melting, ultra killer, sonicaly orgasmic, amazingly stellar, captivatingly clever solos you play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 [laugh] [laugh] You mean panty melting. rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 LOL! Damn, I forgot panty melting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louparte Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 LOL! Damn, I forgot panty melting... Titanium for my 2015 Special. I may put one on my 2017 Faded too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
212West Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 The nut and G-Force tuners on my 2015 Midtown were all changed at Gibson It arrived just requiring a change of strings. I haven't even had it set-up! It's held up fine and they usually require work right away. Not this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roach Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 The only way for strings to go sharp is binding at the nut. You turn the tuning key to bring the string up to pitch but if the string is bound up somewhere it takes more turns from the tuner. When you strike the string the bind is released and the extra turns it took to tune up to pitch causes the string to pull sharp. Another way to look at it is that tension from the tuning peg to the nut is more than from the bridge to the nut. That extra tension is added to the enire string when played releasing the bind. The typical "tink" sound that can often be heard when tuning to up. Most likely the nut. Adding lube doesn't necessarily solve such issues. This seems like what is happening. Would the angle of the strings after the bridge to the stopbar tail play a role in this tension issue? Talking about your tuning problem, some string brands don' t like the zero fret nut, a larger contact surface with the string is the solution like a standard nut. Round wound strings can be incompatible with the zero fret nut. The Graph Tech TUSQ XL adjustable nut is THE solution IMHO. i use d'addario exl110's 10-46 nickel and they are round wound Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristopherJ Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 Would the angle of the strings after the bridge to the stopbar tail play a role in this tension issue? Nope. That would work the opposite, you would have the strings going flat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revolution Six Posted February 2, 2018 Author Share Posted February 2, 2018 Order a TUSQ XL adjustable nut, you will feel the difference. Price is near 15 €, this is not very expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristopherJ Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 Wow, what a design. So the "nut" doesn't really contact the guitar, just those two set screws that terminate on top of the brass insert? What keeps the "nut" from moving around in the brass insert? What keeps the set screws from hogging out the brass insert over time? Not for me. I'm sure this is/was a hot topic for some, I've just not paid that close attention to it. I am sure folks got religion about it both ways. If it works for you, then great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merciful-evans Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 Hey Roach, have you done anything about this yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roach Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 Merciful, I have not solved it or done anything since we started talking but There was things done before but nothing worked. I believe a new nut like the one in this thread is the thing to try next, i wish it came in black. Wow, what a design. So the "nut" doesn't really contact the guitar, just those two set screws that terminate on top of the brass insert? What keeps the "nut" from moving around in the brass insert? What keeps the set screws from hogging out the brass insert over time? Not for me. I'm sure this is/was a hot topic for some, I've just not paid that close attention to it. I am sure folks got religion about it both ways. If it works for you, then great! Yea the bottom of the nut has a deep groove that matches the counterpart in the brass piece. the screws are for adjusting height. Here is what the nuts look like on the bottom. OMG sorry its so big. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merciful-evans Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 Well you know I wish you luck with it. I have to admit that I'm troubled because the cause has not been identified. So a 'solution' like this looks like a stab in the dark. Let us know how it goes though. ATB - ME Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roach Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 Well you know I wish you luck with it. I have to admit that I'm troubled because the cause has not been identified. So a 'solution' like this looks like a stab in the dark. Let us know how it goes though. ATB - ME ATB? It bothers me too, but i have this plan: First get some money. ha. Then order this nut and try it, hopefully it will become available in black by the time i get some money. Then part 2. If that fails, I'll get a new guitar. (Probably throw this one to the back of the closet for some future date) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merciful-evans Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 ATB? It bothers me too, but i have this plan: First get some money. ha. Then order this nut and try it, hopefully it will become available in black by the time i get some money. Then part 2. If that fails, I'll get a new guitar. (Probably throw this one to the back of the closet for some future date) ATB = All The Best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revolution Six Posted February 16, 2018 Author Share Posted February 16, 2018 Your Gibson is a 2015 LP Standard SR. The SR's were having a narrower nut. Have a look : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgmkfVbcJx8&t=253s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merciful-evans Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Your Gibson is a 2015 LP Standard SR. The SR's were having a narrower nut. Have a look : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgmkfVbcJx8&t=253s I didnt know that about the Sprint Run necks. In that case, the new titanium nut cant fit his guitar. Roach, can you confirm what neck you have. The regular 2015s have a neck width of 4.5993 cm / 1.795" at the nut. Is yours smaller? and did you try to fit the titanium nut? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roach Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 I didnt know that about the Sprint Run necks. In that case, the new titanium nut cant fit his guitar. Roach, can you confirm what neck you have. The regular 2015s have a neck width of 4.5993 cm / 1.795" at the nut. Is yours smaller? and did you try to fit the titanium nut? Guys I have a studio 2015 that did not have gforce system. Yes i tried it and it was too big, then Gibson sent me two of the larger titanium nuts before they finally corrected this and sent the smaller one. That was the reason I had taken the picture. But the service person i dealt with was cool about it and the whole process was fast. There was no delay. I mean when I got the wrong one, it only took about 3 days for the next wrong one and another 3 -4 days to get the right one. So yes there is a titanium nut for both sizes, HOWEVER as you have seen from my posts, I am not so sure that the nut is NOT the cause of my problems. All i can say for sure about that is the brass nut was terrible, and proved to me the nut has a huge affect on the sound of the guitar. It sounded, well... brassy.... (silly but true!) ill measure the neck and edit this post after the sun comes out and gives me some light... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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