fortyearspickn Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 Here's a quote from an article which suggests one change to be implemented today in DC is to return to a 'new' policy started by Obama and ended by Trump - to 'encourage' companies found guilty of crimes in which there is a financial penalty - to pay it to 'pre-approved' unrelated groups or organizations. "Past instances of settlements involving payments to third-party groups include a $17 billion settlement agreement where Bank of America was required to pay nonprofit organizations to resolve an investigation into its role in the sale of mortgage-backed securities before the 2008 financial crisis. That agreement was struck under then-Attorney General Eric Holder’s Justice Department. In another agreement, Gibson Guitar Corp. had to contribute to the National Fish and Wildlife Foundation to resolve a criminal investigation into allegations it illegally imported exotic wood." I seem to recall armed Fish N Fowl "Agents' storming the Gibson plant pointing their guns at surprised, innocent workers and threatening them with arrest. Salt in the Wounds when you have to write a check to the people that swatted you ! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinch Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 What the hell kind of extortionist BS is that?!! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badbluesplayer Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 I think it'll be great! Much nicer guy. Much more honest. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 (edited) Wait did Gibson illegally import wood or not? Is it yes they did or no they didn't? Edited January 20, 2021 by Sgt. Pepper 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortyearspickn Posted January 20, 2021 Author Share Posted January 20, 2021 1 hour ago, badbluesplayer said: I think it'll be great! Much nicer guy. Much more honest. Yeah. But the OP was just about the ethics of diverting fines from being paid to the proper organization to ones specified by politicians. Not about politics. Ethics. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortyearspickn Posted January 20, 2021 Author Share Posted January 20, 2021 1 hour ago, Sgt. Pepper said: Wait did Gibson illegally import wood or not? Is it yes they did or no they didn't? I don't know. Read a lot about it. The wood itself was 'legal'. India said it was 'legal'. Fish N' Fowl regulations said it was illegal because it had not been cut into fretboards. So - I don't know. BUT - as usual, reading comprehension strikes again - my post was concerned with the payment of the fine. Sorry it wasn't clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badbluesplayer Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 Gibson paid like 400 grand to the fish and wildlife service in return for the Gov't entering into a settlement which was not disclosed to the public. Henry and the wood buying guy were in big trouble for allegedly seeking out and cultivating illegal supplies of regulated woods in India and some other place. These settlements normally consist of a consent agreement (I did this stuff for a living and represented people who were in this kind of trouble), which, in this case, supposedly the Gov't agreed to not prosecute Henry and/or other Gibson employees for criminal matters in return for the monetary punishments. They had the guys by the short hairs and Henry had to do this stuff to save his own hide. Consent agreements are the way the Gov't extracts their punishment for stuff when there's rich people involved who don't want to go to jail. Henry ran out in front of the shop a half hour after they got raided and started making a bunch of excuses in public. That's usually a dead giveaway that the guy's a scofflaw. Anybody can read anything they want about this situation and draw their own conclusions. I worked for environmental scofflaws and made a career of it. Draw your own conclusions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 (edited) 31 minutes ago, badbluesplayer said: Gibson paid like 400 grand to the fish and wildlife service in return for the Gov't entering into a settlement which was not disclosed to the public. Henry and the wood buying guy were in big trouble for allegedly seeking out and cultivating illegal supplies of regulated woods in India and some other place. These settlements normally consist of a consent agreement (I did this stuff for a living and represented people who were in this kind of trouble), which, in this case, supposedly the Gov't agreed to not prosecute Henry and/or other Gibson employees for criminal matters in return for the monetary punishments. They had the guys by the short hairs and Henry had to do this stuff to save his own hide. Consent agreements are the way the Gov't extracts their punishment for stuff when there's rich people involved who don't want to go to jail. Henry ran out in front of the shop a half hour after they got raided and started making a bunch of excuses in public. That's usually a dead giveaway that the guy's a scofflaw. Anybody can read anything they want about this situation and draw their own conclusions. I worked for environmental scofflaws and made a career of it. Draw your own conclusions Here is the thing why pay the fine if King Henry insisted they did nothing wrong? Because your a rich CEO and you can pay to get out trouble. Go to court and have your day. Your the world famous Gibson Guitar Corp and must have a team of lawyers at your disposal. Or did they do it and know they were caught like a cheating spouse on the down stoke? Edited January 21, 2021 by Sgt. Pepper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveFord Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 First Zombie Threads, now Zombie Topics. Another sign that the apocalypse is upon us. Glad to see the news guy can use ebony again, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 2 minutes ago, SteveFord said: First Zombie Threads, now Zombie Topics. Another sign that the apocalypse is upon us. Glad to see the news guy can use ebony again, though. I think they were given a time period that they were banned from using it until JC took over. That is why I think they used baked maple and that yummy Richlite stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badbluesplayer Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 23 hours ago, fortyearspickn said: Yeah. But the OP was just about the ethics of diverting fines from being paid to the proper organization to ones specified by politicians. Not about politics. Ethics. I'll stop busting your stones about politics right now. 😬 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveFord Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 I was holding out for baked Richlite but I guess it would melt. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badbluesplayer Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Sgt. Pepper said: I think they were given a time period that they were banned from using it until JC took over. That is why I think they used baked maple and that yummy Richlite stuff. I figured, at the time, that they were going to have to agree not to use any ebony for a certain period of time, as part of the agreement. It was apparent from Gibson's actions. I thought it was going to be five years. I have no evidence, I was just thinking like a government lawyer. I'll still bet a dollar that's what happened. They knew HJ was in trouble financially and five years was just about right as far as how long they thought Gibson would be closely tied to HJ. Cost him bigtime. The Gov't's good at this sort of thing. Edited January 21, 2021 by badbluesplayer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Pepper Posted January 21, 2021 Share Posted January 21, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, badbluesplayer said: I figured, at the time, that they were going to have to agree not to use any ebony for a certain period of time, as part of the agreement. It was apparent from Gibson's actions. I thought it was going to be five years. I have no evidence, I was just thinking like a government lawyer. I'll still bet a dollar that's what happened. They knew HJ was in trouble financially and five years was just about right as far as how long the ban would be "effective" in extracting a cost for the infractions. Cost him bigtime. The Gov't's good at this sort of thing. Here is what he is supposedly worth it is estimated: Henry Juszkiewicz net worth in 2018 at about $850,000. I'm worth about 6 Martins and my record collection and maybe about a 10 spot, but that is it. Edited January 21, 2021 by Sgt. Pepper 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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