Voices

[Buc McMaster]

We all agree that among the major acoustic guitar makers there are distinct differences in the sound of their instruments. Lately I have been trying to determine a good way to describe these differences that might make sense to players and non-playing listeners as well. Voices. No two persons speak/sing with the same voice and likewise Gibson, Martin and Taylor guitars "speak" in different timbres. Thinking along this line gives us a new point of reference for guitar tones.

 

Gibson: throaty; chunky, world-worn - Dan Tyminski; John Hiatt; John Lennon; Tony Bennett

Martin: balanced; not shrill; powerful - Michael Bolton; Frank Sinatra

Taylor: clear; smooth; even-tempered.......Vince Gill; Paul Simon

 

Silly point of reference? Agree/disagree? Your picks and/or descriptions?

[ksdaddy]

Back in the early 90s there seemed to be a metric assload of thin cutaway acoustics with onboard preamps and such. I think the market was the electric player who might consider condescending into the unplugged world but didn't want to 'cut the cord', physically and metaphorically. They sounded awful acoustically.

 

So one of those would be Fran Drescher after a rat trap snapped on her left buttock?

[jannusguy]

Back in the early 90s there seemed to be a metric assload of thin cutaway acoustics with onboard preamps and such. I think the market was the electric player who might consider condescending into the unplugged world but didn't want to 'cut the cord'' date=' physically and metaphorically. They sounded awful acoustically.

 

So one of those would be Fran Drescher after a rat trap snapped on her left buttock?[/quote']

 

scott, yer killin' me! too funny!

[drathbun]

Back in the early 90s there seemed to be a metric assload of thin cutaway acoustics with onboard preamps and such. I think the market was the electric player who might consider condescending into the unplugged world but didn't want to 'cut the cord'' date=' physically and metaphorically. They sounded awful acoustically.

 

So one of those would be Fran Drescher after a rat trap snapped on her left buttock?[/quote']

 

I wonder if Scott didn't edit this last line replacing another word with buttock?

[asmith9509]

Back in the early 90s there seemed to be a metric assload of thin cutaway acoustics with onboard preamps and such. I think the market was the electric player who might consider condescending into the unplugged world but didn't want to 'cut the cord'' date=' physically and metaphorically. They sounded awful acoustically.

 

So one of those would be Fran Drescher after a rat trap snapped on her left buttock?[/quote']

 

That was awesome. I owned one of those "Fran Drescher Model" Guilds, it was really a putrid instrument acoustically.

[ksdaddy]

Me, edit a word so it wouldn't be censored?

 

That's ridic.....

 

Never mind.

[powerpopper]

We all agree that among the major acoustic guitar makers there are distinct differences in the sound of their instruments. Lately I have been trying to determine a good way to describe these differences that might make sense to players and non-playing listeners as well. Voices. No two persons speak/sing with the same voice and likewise Gibson' date=' Martin and Taylor guitars "speak" in different timbres. Thinking along this line gives us a new point of reference for guitar tones.

 

Gibson: throaty; chunky, world-worn - Dan Tyminski; John Hiatt; John Lennon; Tony Bennett

Martin: balanced; not shrill; powerful - Michael Bolton; Frank Sinatra

Taylor: clear; smooth; even-tempered.......Vince Gill; Paul Simon

 

Silly point of reference? Agree/disagree? Your picks and/or descriptions?[/quote']

 

These seem like good analogies. I would like to see some more. Could be a good forum project.

 

With these references (having owned Gibsons, Martins and Taylors), I am not surprised that I gravitate toward Gibsons (six times!), even though I have a couple of Martins and a Taylor.

 

The only question I have is what about guitars within those brands that sound different from each other? What is the quintessential Gibson sound/voice? A J-45? An SJ-200? Is the quintessential Martin sound a D-28 or D-18? I won't even go there on Taylors...:-({|=/

[J-200 Koa]

I tend to disagree only because there is not a standard to judge by.

For example, a Gibson SJ-200 played by one musician can sound very

different from another SJ-200 played by a different musician. Even the

same instrument can take on different tonal qualities in the hands of

different artists. Touch, style and technique really bring out different

sounds in similar instruments. All I know for sure is that any guitar

can sound awful when I play it.

[Gilliangirl]

I can't help but associate different guitars with certain musicians. When I think of Martin, I think deep, dark, gets-you-right-in-the-guts kind of sounds. I think Johnny Cash and Neil Young.

 

The thing I like about Gibson is really hard to explain. I am a very visual person and I *see* music when I hear certain sounds. I get an image in my head and I don't know how to explain it without sounding like a complete wacko. When I hear the sound of a great J-45 for example, I hear what I would describe as rustic. I get an image of an open field, with old rusting farm equipment, a gorgeous rustic still life, beautiful rich autumn colours. I hear John Hiatt or Johnny Reid (I don't even know what Johnny Reid plays but he should play a Gibson!)

 

Taylor to me sounds much more delicate, like gentle rain falling on a tin roof.

[BigKahune]

I tend to disagree only because there is not a standard to judge by. For example' date=' a Gibson SJ-200 played by one musician can sound very different from another SJ-200 played by a different musician. Even the

same instrument can take on different tonal qualities in the hands of different artists. Touch, style and technique really bring out different sounds in similar instruments. All I know for sure is that any guitar can sound awful when I play it.[/quote']

 

+1

 

Also, players might play certain instruments different than others and get a totally different sound/feeling. I currently have a Martin and Taylor (and previously a steel string Taylor) - and in the past I had a couple Gibbs. When I think about it, I tend to play them differently - the Taylor more carefully picked and strummed, holding back a bit. The Martin kind of half way, not holding back, but not aggressive. But that Gibby SJ2, I loved to get aggressive on that and it could take it - no problem. Now days I get aggressive on my Guild F412.

[modoc_333]

I can't help but associate different guitars with certain musicians. When I think of Martin' date=' I think deep, dark, gets-you-right-in-the-guts kind of sounds. I think Johnny Cash and Neil Young.

 

The thing I like about Gibson is really hard to explain. I am a very visual person and I *see* music when I hear certain sounds. I get an image in my head and I don't know how to explain it without sounding like a complete wacko. When I hear the sound of a great J-45 for example, I hear what I would describe as rustic. I get an image of an open field, with old rusting farm equipment, a gorgeous rustic still life, beautiful rich autumn colours. I hear John Hiatt or Johnny Reid (I don't even know what Johnny Reid plays but he should play a Gibson!)

 

Taylor to me sounds much more delicate, like gentle rain falling on a tin roof.[/quote']

 

you're not as odd as you think. i do it too. all sounds have a visual connection in my head... though they aren't scenic for me. they are abstract or geometric. i can understand what you mean though. and here is a little something for you to read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synaesthesia

[peiplayer]

Well I think that while each make of guitar might have its own typical sound, I don't hear them being as vastly different as others do and I've owned both Martin and Gibson. I also don't associate an artist's sound to a particular make. Dylan always sounds like Dylan no matter what he's playing, even if strumming an electric. Whatever their preference is at any point I think is just that a preference and that changes too. My own guitar sounds slightly different from time to time depending on the day and my ear I guess.

[Gilliangirl]

 

you're not as odd as you think. i do it too. all sounds have a visual connection in my head... though they aren't scenic for me. they are abstract or geometric. i can understand what you mean though. and here is a little something for you to read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synaesthesia

Wow! That is fascinating! Thanks for that Modac! I had no idea there was a name for it. I just thought I was weird LOL The ex and I used to sit around with the guitars and he would play different bits of music and ask me what image I would get. He found it interesting that I could come up with stuff, images, and he could envision it too once I expressed it. (He was the best guitarist I have ever met. Sadly, no one will ever hear him because he's such an introvert. We always thought, tho', that if he made a video of his songs, we would use my mental images to produce them.)

 

Interesting that yours are abstract/geometric. Are they in different colors?

 

Here's an example of one that I've had since I can remember...... the solo guitar bit in Ride My See Saw (it's a bit more than half-way through the song)..... I see brilliant sparkling crystal water spouting from a tall cement fountain that spouts sparkling droplets and streams of water in response to the notes..... the higher the note up the fretboard, the higher the water spouts in the air. Then it all cascades down beautifully as the solo ends.

[Red 333]

 

Gibson: throaty; chunky' date=' world-worn - Dan Tyminski; John Hiatt; John Lennon; Tony Bennett

Martin: balanced; not shrill; powerful - Michael Bolton; Frank Sinatra

[/quote']

 

I like your analogy, but I have one quibble. I mean, who is more throaty and world worn than the Chairman, Mr. Francis Albert Sinatra, especially in the wee small hours of the morning? I think you should ammend your Martin description and call him "Big-Band Era Frank." Flush-With-Life-Experience-Frank is a Gibson.

 

Red 333

[Gilliangirl]

..... I hear John Hiatt or Johnny Reid (I don't even know what Johnny Reid plays but he should play a Gibson!)

 

Well, I just did some digging around and Johnny Reid plays a Gibson. Imagine that!

[modoc_333]

Wow! That is fascinating! Thanks for that Modac! I had no idea there was a name for it. I just thought I was weird LOL The ex and I used to sit around with the guitars and he would play different bits of music and ask me what image I would get. He found it interesting that I could come up with stuff' date=' images, and he could envision it too once I expressed it. (He was the best guitarist I have ever met. Sadly, no one will ever hear him because he's such an introvert. We always thought, tho', that if he made a video of his songs, we would use my mental images to produce them.)

 

Interesting that yours are abstract/geometric. Are they in different colors?

 

Here's an example of one that I've had since I can remember...... the solo guitar bit in Ride My See Saw (it's a bit more than half-way through the song)..... I see brilliant sparkling crystal water spouting from a tall cement fountain that spouts sparkling droplets and streams of water in response to the notes..... the higher the note up the fretboard, the higher the water spouts in the air. Then it all cascades down beautifully as the solo ends.[/quote']

 

mine are generally not in color (though i dream in color). it is mostly a black void for a backdrop... like deep space. then, the shapes come across from left to right. they are generally white. quite often it's a line that twists, turns, dips, and dives along.... then other lines and shapes will pop up from below or above. then sometimes things come out of the background. some are cones, or boxes, or spike shapes, or lines... etc. but these things flow and dance across.

with non musical sounds i get other things. for example, a gunshot is a cone shape. i can determine if it is a rifle, pistol, shotgun, etc by what it looks like. to me, all sounds have an image. music just flows more. i actually visualize tons of things... i remember everything visually. to me, it's almost like i dont' have to remember stuff, i can just go "look" at it in my head.

[Honky Dog]

I can't help but associate different guitars with certain musicians. When I think of Martin' date=' I think deep, dark, gets-you-right-in-the-guts kind of sounds. I think Johnny Cash and Neil Young.

 

The thing I like about Gibson is really hard to explain. I am a very visual person and I *see* music when I hear certain sounds. I get an image in my head and I don't know how to explain it without sounding like a complete wacko. When I hear the sound of a great J-45 for example, I hear what I would describe as rustic. I get an image of an open field, with old rusting farm equipment, a gorgeous rustic still life, beautiful rich autumn colours. I hear John Hiatt or Johnny Reid (I don't even know what Johnny Reid plays but he should play a Gibson!)

 

Taylor to me sounds much more delicate, like gentle rain falling on a tin roof.[/quote']

 

Love your visual descriptions, Karen. I think they are right on.

[macaibhistin]

Gillian, Can you recommend some Johnny Reid tunes for me? I am not familiar with his music, but I saw an interview with him on tv one time and he seemed pretty cool - a little deeper than some of the Nashville artists the interview on CMT. Well, he mentioned Gordon Lightfoot, so I knew he couldn't be all that bad! BTW, the guy in the Youtube video was playing Cape Breton-style fiddle! Love it, wish it was longer.

[Honky Dog]

<snipped>

 

Taylor to me sounds much more delicate' date=' like gentle rain falling on a tin roof.[/quote']

 

That's why I love it when Sarah McLachlan plays Taylors.

[Gilliangirl]

Gillian' date=' Can you recommend some Johnny Reid tunes for me? I am not familiar with his music, but I saw an interview with him on tv one time and he seemed pretty cool - a little deeper than some of the Nashville artists the interview on CMT. Well, he mentioned Gordon Lightfoot, so I knew he couldn't be all that bad! BTW, the guy in the Youtube video was playing Cape Breton-style fiddle! Love it, wish it was longer. [/quote']

Andrew, sorry, I'm just seeing this now. I really don't know him that well yet myself. I just discovered him a few months back..... heard him singing Darlin' on the radio. I have heard his newest CD is very good but don't own it yet. He's got a few videos on YouTube you could check out?

[Gilliangirl]

 

Love your visual descriptions' date=' Karen. I think they are right on. [/quote']

Thanks HD! I'm glad you can appreciate my wackiness LOL

[Gitfidl]

The J-100 has a beautiful (to me) full sound but volume is nominal. The bridge pickup can be used for volume but sound like a bridge pickup. I had to do musical chairs with strings and finally got the strings and neck adjust that works best most of the time -- light PB -- and that alters the voice of the guitar too. But all of that adn I like the guitar (Greenseleevses Scarboro -- or strumming Hank Williams and Johnny Cash) I am never certain how others hear anything I do -- they applaud and I have fun. The Tacoma is much lighter both in wood and in sound. I do not know why. I always figured it was less bracing and maybe not built as well -- maybe thinner spruce top. I like the sound of the Tacoma too. Had both the Gibson and the Tacoma "worked on" before they got to where I wanted them -- Gibson approved work. But I will never part with either. The Yamaha FG04 is a "not bad" for the model type of guitar. Not bad for the places I play it -- noisy, nasty, dark beer places... parks, picnics, raucus environments. Why bring a good guitar to a lousy environment? The electrics go to Swing Band, blues and jazz. and it sound like that kind of music. I like Martins, I like Taylors (a little) and I like Gibsons (a lot). But I cannot say EXACTLY why on any of them.

[Gitfidl]

The J-100 has a beautiful (to me) full sound but volume is nominal. The bridge pickup can be used for volume but sound like a bridge pickup. I had to do musical chairs with strings and finally got the strings and neck adjust that works best most of the time -- light PB -- and that alters the voice of the guitar too. But all of that adn I like the guitar (Greenseleevses Scarboro -- or strumming Hank Williams and Johnny Cash) I am never certain how others hear anything I do -- they applaud and I have fun. The Tacoma is much lighter both in wood and in sound. I do not know why. I always figured it was less bracing and maybe not built as well -- maybe thinner spruce top. I like the sound of the Tacoma too. Had both the Gibson and the Tacoma "worked on" before they got to where I wanted them -- Gibson approved work. But I will never part with either. The Yamaha FG04 is a "not bad" for the model type of guitar. Not bad for the places I play it -- noisy, nasty, dark beer places... parks, picnics, raucus environments. Why bring a good guitar to a lousy environment? The electrics go to Swing Band, blues and jazz. and it sound like that kind of music. I like Martins, I like Taylors (a little) and I like Gibsons (a lot). But I cannot say EXACTLY why on any of them.

[Gitfidl]

Back in the early 90s there seemed to be a metric assload of thin cutaway acoustics with onboard preamps and such. I think the market was the electric player who might consider condescending into the unplugged world but didn't want to 'cut the cord'' date=' physically and metaphorically. They sounded awful acoustically.

 

So one of those would be Fran Drescher after a rat trap snapped on her left buttock?[/quote']

 

You are right! There is a guy shows up on Fridays with an Ibanez that has a plastic back (no sides) and is amplified and sounds like junk. (do they still sell them? ... the plastic bowl guitars?) Even the laminate sides and backs are not a good solution for acoustic.

 

There ARE two different worlds -- electric and acoustic. Acoustic does not sound very good amplified (better to use an external voice mike). Electric does not sound like acoustic. Two different kinds of instruments.

 

Gibson has an excellent acoustic product whether flat top or arch top. They know how to do it. They do not make compromised guitars in order to be in lower priced markets. (Martin does).

 

If someone wants a good acoustic it has to be ALL wood (not plastic or laminate). It has to have depth. It has to have tone-wood. the bridge and the saddle are critical components along with frets, nut, and tuning machine (pegs). bridge pins too.

 

There are just so many sources that know how to do that. Price cannot be the controlling factor in acquiring that kind of guitar.