Gibson P90 owners! Need help with pickup height!

[Threepwood]

Hi everyone, nice to meet you all!

So, I own a Gibson Les Paul Special with two P90s. Love the guitar but recently I've been playing around a lot with my pickup heights and now I'm totally confused. Kinda wish I hadn't messed with it at all or at least written down how it came out of the factory...

I know that the neck position is usually louder than the bridge. But I am still confused on the best position. Some people write the pickups should be as close to the strings as possible but if I bring my neck too close there's just too much bass in my amp (I am using the Kemper, different profiles, mainly Marshalls and Tweeds. There's even too much bass when I turn the bass knob all the way down if the neck is too high). 

I tried to set up the guitar so that the neck pickup sounds great and then adjust the bridge pickup accordingly. But it's kinda extreme. I have to lower the neck quite a bit so that it doesn't have too much bass and then I need a fairly bright amp for it to sound clear. But that means I need to REALLY lower the treble knob on the bridge. Like if the volume is at 10 I need to go down to something between 2-3 on the treble. Is that normal, having bass treble at 10 and bridge at 3?

How do you guys handle this type of guitar? I don't mind having to use different positions on the volume knobs in order to have a balanced middle position, but currently I'm driving myself crazy thinking I'm not using the pickups as they were intended.

Any help? Can you list your pickup heights? (If I can choose - I use the metric system. 😅)

Thanks a lot!

 

[NighthawkChris]

If you're too close, you get a warbled tone because the magnet is too close and physically (magnetically) attracting the string while it is vibrating.  If PU is too far, the pole-pieces cannot pick up on the generated field changes of the strings' vibrations as best it can.  So there is a sweet spot in terms of where do you maximize the signal output without causing some sort of interference with the entire mechanical process. 

So that being said, I cannot say what the Gibson spec is to where they should be (1/8" ???) - and it'll be in inches since Gibson is American company.  The only way to replicate what someone else does is to measure it and pass it on - i.e. why there's a "spec".  But not saying you always get the best results exactly at their specified pickup height, but you can start from there given you can measure this correctly (tools and knowledge).  At the very least, the pickups in these guitars SHOULD work at their spec.  You might need to move an adjustment screw in one direction or the other (raise/lower) slightly after that to get the type of output you get to your liking I suppose...  A lot of guys just wing it - plug it in, hear it make sound; don't like it, twist a screw a little bit.  So I always start from the manufacturer's spec and tweak from there. 

Overall, this stuff isn't too big of a deal to squabble about.  Rest assured, there is some way via the 4 height adjustment screws it takes to adjust to get them to perform as best they can.  I understand that every guitar is different and no one number is right for everything.  I simply have the tools to precisely measure my stuff and I know at what point the guitar needs to be set up for a consistent result.  Don't be afraid to twist a couple screws on he guitar and futz around...  It's a guitar - wires and wood with a finish.  You might not like the guitar the way it sounds for all I know and no matter where you have the pickups set at, but hope you make this work out better for you. 

[kidblast]

I found this page with a quick google (Gibson P90 Setup)  it gives some guidance on what to look for

How To Adjust (Set) Pickup Height on a P-90 for ULTIMATE TONE! | Warehouse Guitar Speakers (wgsusa.com)

Note that the measurement is done from the magnet pole under each E String to the bottom of the strings with the string pressed DOWN at the last fret.

[Threepwood]

2 hours ago, kidblast said:

I found this page with a quick google (Gibson P90 Setup)  it gives some guidance on what to look for

How To Adjust (Set) Pickup Height on a P-90 for ULTIMATE TONE! | Warehouse Guitar Speakers (wgsusa.com)

Note that the measurement is done from the magnet pole under each E String to the bottom of the strings with the string pressed DOWN at the last fret.

I had actually googled this topic a lot and never found this link. Comes to show how different google results are depending on the region.

The guy who wrote the article has his pickup height set to pretty much exactly the height I thought mine sound best. So that definitely means I rest a bit calmer now. Thanks!

[merciful-evans]

19 hours ago, Threepwood said:

Is that normal, having bass treble at 10 and bridge at 3?

It does seem extreme, but I'm not surprised. This sort of thing puzzled me about the Gibson circuit too. There is no uniform reduction in volume. 

But its one good reason to have independent volume controls (usually I dont like em). Use the guitar with whatever settings work for you.

[kidblast]

4 hours ago, merciful-evans said:

It does seem extreme, but I'm not surprised. This sort of thing puzzled me about the Gibson circuit too. There is no uniform reduction in volume. 

if the volume drops off to fast, that's usually the pot,  I've had to swap out pots a few times to try and fix that.  It's annoying.

4 hours ago, merciful-evans said:

But its one good reason to have independent volume controls (usually I dont like em). Use the guitar with whatever settings work for you.

I like separate volume and tone controls on dual pickup setups.  it helps the middle toggle switch position be a bit more versatile.   I can tame down the  volume neck pickup and  keep the bridge pickup full on,  this adds that top end to help keep clarity in the sound, esp with two humbuckers, they can get be a bit too "boomy" in some situations.

4 hours ago, merciful-evans said:

It does seem extreme, but I'm not surprised. This sort of thing puzzled me about the Gibson circuit too. There is no uniform reduction in volume. 

But its one good reason to have independent volume controls (usually I dont like em). Use the guitar with whatever settings work for you.

I think the Lollar site has a few links and some youtube videos that go thru this stuff in a general sense.    However not sure if there is one that just works out P90s.   I thought at one time, there was a Gibson sponsored link, but that may have just been for humbuckers.   Glad you got it sorted out, it's really one of those things that takes a few tries to get it right.  Then you can just forget about the whole ordeal once it's there.

[Threepwood]

2 hours ago, kidblast said:

it's really one of those things that takes a few tries to get it right.  

Especially if you use several amps, in my case several different profiles on the Kemper. The guitar behaves differently with every profile, as seems logical. That's the reason why a setting might work for one person but not the other.

I also own a ES-125 type guitar and you can't even adjust the P90. In a way I even enjoy that limitation as I just have to live with it.

[kidblast]

yea, true  some P90 quip'd axes have no adjustment.

 

[Pinch]

On 5/5/2021 at 1:55 PM, Threepwood said:

or at least written down how it came out of the factory...

 

Last time I did that, I lost the note. 

[Pinch]

1 minute ago, Pinch said:

Last time I did that, I lost the note. 

Actually, the last two times 🙂

[kidblast]

20 hours ago, Pinch said:

Actually, the last two times 🙂

case compartments are your friend.

[Pinch]

2 hours ago, kidblast said:

case compartments are your friend.

I'd just run into a band of case compartment thieves. 

[NighthawkChris]

On 5/5/2021 at 2:37 PM, kidblast said:

I found this page with a quick google (Gibson P90 Setup)  it gives some guidance on what to look for

How To Adjust (Set) Pickup Height on a P-90 for ULTIMATE TONE! | Warehouse Guitar Speakers (wgsusa.com)

Note that the measurement is done from the magnet pole under each E String to the bottom of the strings with the string pressed DOWN at the last fret.

Nice site @kidblast

[mihcmac]

Good article. In the image below from the article, if you notice how high the Bridge P90 is compared to the Neck P90, this typically happens because the Neck position is inherently louder than the Bridge position. So to get a mid switch position balance the Neck P90 needs to be set lower. Also notice that poles are screwed out a little higher than the top of the P90, new P90's usually have them set flush. I like the poles to be set to match the 12" string radius. Starting with one full turn on both E's then two turns on A&B and three turns on D&G. This should match the 12" string radius and give each pole close to the distance from the string once you have adjust the overall pickup height. In addition I set the screw slots to cross the string.

Next I would adjust the Bridge P90 height,  like in the article, the Low E: 2.6mm / 0.10" Hi E : 2.35mm / 0.092". Make sure the bridge P90 doesn't rattle, if it does you may need to put some dense foam under it. If it makes a weird clacky warbley sound its too close.

The Neck P90 a good starting point would be the Low E: 4.5mm / 0.18" Hi  E  : 3.43mm / 0.135", a starting point because not all P90's are equal. Once set, plug in your guitar and switch back and forth from Bridge to Neck checking balance, if the Neck position is too loud lower it a little, if its too weak raise it. Next check the the mid position to make sure you have the balance you want. If its too Bassy' lower the the Neck PU, too Treble raise the Neck PU.

Note that once you have your optimum Bridge P90 hight set all balance adjustments are done by adjusting the  height of the Neck P90..

Note that I have 11 guitars with P90's, several with after market P90's, so lots of variation.

 

Edited May 7, 2021 by mihcmac