Identify the year by the serial number

[Runner]

Last century,  in the mid-sixties, my mother bought a "Gibson SJ Southerner Jumbo" with a serial number of 329277. In Australia, she paid £288.00 for this guitar, which has a narrow fretboard (see pic). Can anybody lend a hand in identifying the year in which this powerful instrument was made?

[Runner]

4 minutes ago, Runner said:

Last century,  in the mid-sixties, my mother bought a "Gibson SJ Southerner Jumbo" with a serial number of 329277. In Australia, she paid £288.00 for this guitar, which has a narrow fretboard (see pic). Can anybody lend a hand in identifying the year in which this powerful instrument was made?

I have played Martins, Hummingbirds and Doves: nothing quite emulates the projection, powerful bass, beefy mid-range and crystal clear trebles of this instrument. I wish the fretboard were wider.

[Runner]

Just now, Runner said:

I have played Martins, Hummingbirds and Doves: nothing quite emulates the projection, powerful bass, beefy mid-range and crystal clear trebles of this instrument. I wish the fretboard were wider.  To me, it's also eye candy!

 

[olie]

The book "Gibson's Fabulous Flat-Top Guitars" has it as either 1965 or 1967. That is typical for Gibson as they re-used serial numbers for different years.

Sometimes. That's Gibson for you!

[Murph]

11 hours ago, olie said:

That is typical for Gibson as they re-used serial numbers for different years.

 

 

There are only 10 digits.

You can't just go around wasting them.

[fortyearspickn]

To most, the exact year would be of lesser importance than the fact it appears to have been produced before the less desirable Norlin era.  

[RBSinTo]

1 hour ago, fortyearspickn said:

To most, the exact year would be of lesser importance than the fact it appears to have been produced before the less desirable Norlin era.  

fyp.,

If the instrument which is, after all, a machine for producing sounds, does that job really well, why would it matter if it was produced during the "Norlin era" or not?

Shouldn't sound quality be the most important criterion to a musician?

RBSinTo

[fortyearspickn]

Of course.  Absolutely. 

Just thought I'd point out the fact that Norlin era guitars are generally believed to be less desirable to those who can't road test every potential purchase.    So a pre-Norlin date would mean his mother's guitar is probably more desirable overall.   He was asking about the specific year, not the sound quality, which he seems to be very happy with, so, being from Australia - I guessed he'd want any additional insight re. 'era'.  

And, again  YES ...   - Caveat #1   -  tone and playability are #1.   But, sometimes we have to sort the pepper from the flyspecks based on Make, Model, era, condition, price, location... before we can go find out about tone and playability.   I should have added that caveat and not generalized.

[slimt]

I just sold one just like yours. 

[zombywoof]

Once again you guys have succeeded in making me feel old.  If my mother had bought a guitar when she was a young woman, it would have been built well before WWII.  All I ever got handed down to me was a factory fiddle her brother had played.

 

[Runner]

Thank you for looking up the year, Olie.

No question that the tone and feel of an instrument are most important, but the quality of the workmanship plays a big role in desirability and, to me, value.

In the mid 70's, I visited a large music store in Sydney that had on display a number of Gibson acoustics. I was disappointed when noticing the decline is quality: the worst feature was the way in which the pickguard was affixed: instead of being glued and the edges smoothed, the pickguard on all of the top models was lumberjack thick and screwed to the soundboard. Some of the slotted flathead screws were not flush with the top; so you could catch a fingertip if rubbing against the edge. The overall appearance of the Gibson's was cheaper. The finesse in my SJ to which I am acquainted was missing.

A friend recently bought an ES-335, and the quality looked good. So I figure the period of sloppy work at the factory ended.
 

[zombywoof]

Being the simple sort, for me it has nothing to do with sound.  The combination of the skimpy neck carve and the 1 9/16" nut Gibson went with in 1965 results in what is for me an unplayable guitar.  While I am flexible to a point, apparently a 1 11/16" nut while not my preference is as low as I can go. But in terms of the general build, 1967 is the last year before the heavier built Gibson acoustics start rolling out of Kalamazoo.

As to "sloppiness" of the build while book learning and the truth about guitars do not always go hand in hand somewhere I have a book which contains about 20 interviews with Kalamazoo employees, some of whom had been with Gibson since the late-1940s.  What comes out is that the guy who took over CMI in 1965 (the same guy who gave us the 1 9/16" nut) started making other changes at Gibson.  While CMI had formerly left the design and building of guitars to those at Gibson who had been doing it for a living, the new guy started putting his two cents in with the goal of speeding up production while cutting costs.  The first changes were made in 1967 and had to do with removing roadblocks which were believed to be slowing down production  resulting in doing away with the elaborate inspection of parts and guitars Gibson had been going with.  The saving grace with Gibson though is the folks building them simply did not know how to build a bad guitar.  The problem was their skills could not overcome some the design changes which started to be implemented which had nothing to do with sound but with avoiding guitars being returned under warranty.  So when it comes to laying everything squarely on the shoulders of Norlin that dog just won't hunt.  Gibson's woes began when CMI decided Gibson's president Ted McCarty's way of building guitars was not what was best for their bottom line and finally sent him a walking in 1966.

Edited May 23, 2022 by zombywoof

[Runner]

zombywolf: Thanks for your insightful comments. I found your post very interesting.

Back in the 60's, a lot of electric guitars had narrow neck, so a transition to the  SJ was not dramatic. Later, I dedicated myself to flamenco guitar; and after many years, I picked up the SJ and found the narrow neck uncomfortable. Still, the sound is so rich... great in the studio.  I will give the instrument to my daughter. The neck will well accommodate her fine fingers.  

slimt:  May I ask how much did the guitar fetch?

[slimt]

2 hours ago, Runner said:

zombywolf: Thanks for your insightful comments. I found your post very interesting.

Back in the 60's, a lot of electric guitars had narrow neck, so a transition to the  SJ was not dramatic. Later, I dedicated myself to flamenco guitar; and after many years, I picked up the SJ and found the narrow neck uncomfortable. Still, the sound is so rich... great in the studio.  I will give the instrument to my daughter. The neck will well accommodate her fine fingers.  

slimt:  May I ask how much did the guitar fetch?

Mine was a 1967 SJ. Quite similar to yours.  I got  2500 out of it.    It was in fair to good condition.   Only reason I sold it was to get another Brazilian SJ200.   The SJ is a good guitar.  

Edited May 23, 2022 by slimt

[j45nick]

On 5/20/2022 at 5:43 PM, Runner said:

I have played Martins, Hummingbirds and Doves: nothing quite emulates the projection, powerful bass, beefy mid-range and crystal clear trebles of this instrument. I wish the fretboard were wider.

The serial number says 1965 or 1967. There is likely little or no difference between those two years as far as the guitar's specifications go. Neither 1965 nor 1967 is really considered the "Norlin era", which generally refers to the time beginning around 1970 when Gibson flat-tops had heavily-braced tops that tended to deaden tonal characteristics.

The only significant drawback to your guitar will be the narrow 1 9/16"  (39.7mm) neck width at the nut, which some people find difficult to play.

[Murph]

On 5/22/2022 at 7:28 PM, slimt said:

  The SJ is a good guitar.  

Indeed it is.