Have I made a mistake buying a Martin 000-15m?

[gibsonchiq]

On 3/1/2023 at 3:02 AM, Blondie said:

I know this topic strays towards the dark side, but please hear me out..

I bought a new Gibson Hummingbird in 2010 (regular version) and it has been my only guitar for 13 years. It has been gigged to death and I've probably played around 700 shows with it. Somehow I have survived on this one guitar as it has been so reliable and I've never needed anything else.

Last week I decided I would love another guitar, more for a change than anything else and so I decided I would like to try a Martin. If I'm only going to have two guitars in my locker then owning a Gibson and a Martin seems a pretty good place to be.

I decided I wanted not only something I would hopefully keep for life, but also something very different to the Hummingbird, so after doing a ton of research online I thought the 000-15m could be the way to go. 

I know both guitars share Mahogony, but I wanted something completely different in feel, size, looks, tone, and still classic Martin. I also wanted something really lightweight (I often play 3 x 50 min sets) that I wouldn't be afraid to take out and gig and so I decided to stay away from the high end Martins but thought that $1500 was a good price point for getting a classic guitar but one I would not be afraid to get knocked around a little on the road.

I spent 2 hours in the guitar shop and tried everything, and to be honest, nothing really spoke to me. I was hoping for a "wow" moment and to get excited about being able to choose anything and coming home with another dream guitar (Hummingbird was my dream guitar as a teen) and the only guitar I really felt much affinity towards was a Gibson J-45, but that just seemed completely counter intuitive as it went against nearly all my reasons of choice for something new.

I thought perhaps I am just so used to my Hummingbird that the J-45 was bound to feel nice.. and I really wanted to own some of that Martin goodness that everyone talks about..

So I made my way to the 000-15m and I quite liked it. On first play it actually seemed to play better than my Hummingbird and I was convinced the action was actually lower than my bird (it isn't) even with just the store setup.

I decided to go for it, after all I play mainly solo/duo acoustic with no other instruments and all my research told me this would be the perfect guitar.

But now I've gotten it home and I tried it again and I just feel sorta... flat. It feels so much cheaper than my Hummingbird and the tone just feels really thin and almost tinny in comparison... I've decided to live with it, but can't help feeling I've made a mistake. I don't have money to burn by any means.

I've heard so many great things about this guitar and I really want to like it, but why do I feel like it is just half of the guitar that my hummingbird is? Am I just too inexperienced to appreciate it?

My only other ray of hope is that the guy in store told me they were strung with Elixir strings, I don't have much experience with them but I know they are thin sounding, could that also make so much of an impact?

I am in the same boat as you. I've got an LG 2 and an l00 and I have a baby Martin. I've always wanted a Martin, but I've never found any that I like, like not even close. 

I was at guitar center today and I played the Martin 000, hoping that I would like it. But I didn't at all. It was very sterile and it just sounded lifeless.

[jedzep]

Jack up your budget a notch.  Baby (Mexican) Martin and 15 series mahogany are no bell weather samples.  What 000 did you try?  GC floor model upkeep is notoriously lax, so could be strings, could be dry, etc.  Love my Gibson tone but Martin builds a different beast altogether.   Try a 018 side by side with your LG2.

Edited January 22 by jedzep

[PrairieDog]

No Martin I have played has done anything for me, I’ve played a ton now.  Some may remember I even nearly dropped on a rare, vintage limited edition that I thought had “it.” Went back the next week to get it, and poof, now it sounded dead and blah.  I wonder if they are that sensitive to humidity or barometric pressure.  The weather had changed from warm and cloudy to cool and sunny, chuckle.  

Anyway, it’s reassuring it’s not just me and  a few other folks have the same experience.  They all sound muddied in my ears.  Must be the “blended” tone mentioned earlier.  

btw, I see this is thread from last March.  Hope the OP chimes in to tell us how it worked out.  I’m hoping it was just the “let the new kid settle in” factor, and once it adjusted to the new digs the tone popped for them again. 

Edited January 22 by PrairieDog

[jedzep]

Absurd.  Might be earwax.  That mutes all sound.

[PrairieDog]

9 minutes ago, jedzep said:

Absurd.  Might be earwax.  That mutes all sound.

Don’t think that would be the problem. I have no trouble enjoying our Gibsons, Taylors, vintage and modern resos, and the Pisgah banjo in full living audio.  Different strokes, right? 

[jedzep]

Good. Just trying for a chuckle. 

If you have a good sound system connected to your computer or device, are there any demo vids of Martins that impress you?

[PrairieDog]

14 minutes ago, jedzep said:

Good. Just trying for a chuckle. 

If you have a good sound system connected to your computer or device, are there any demo vids of Martins that impress you?

“You talking to me?” Chuckle.  Just joshing.  Anyway, if you are, then no, like I said, I’ve never heard a Martin I liked. I think it was a weird fluke about the vintage one that I thought sounded good that one day.  Full disclosure, it was really busy in the little shop the first day, so I was holding back and only fooled around with it for a short while. I may have been reading a lot into it that I wasn’t really hearing.  It was quiet the next time and I played it for over an hour.  I also found the larger neck got painful in my hand after a while.  Anyway, the consolation prize on the trip home was a mislabeled  2019 Taylor 714 Ltd with sinker redwood/rosewood. Ran circles around the Martin at a steal for around a quarter of the price.  One door closes and another flies wide open. 

Edited January 22 by PrairieDog

[Dave F]

I think the best sounding guitar I’ve owned was a Martin D41 Special.  I reluctantly sold it because my hand was having issues with the neck. I’ve liked the sound of every 40’s series Martin that I’ve played. 
As far as the Martin 000 body, I think it is a great, comfortable body shape and I’ve had a few. I currently have a Custom Shop 000-14 all mahogany. I like the tone of an all mahogany. Besides the Martin, I have a Gibson ‘42 LG1 all hog and a 2016 Gibson L00 all hog. 
All a matter of taste. 

[jedzep]

Well, maybe, Dave.  But if you plunked a Taylor down in your mix, wonder what your ear would tell you.   Mine say cheap build equals cheap tone.  If one always drove a Rambler,  a Chevy Vega would seem like a nice ride.

These stories of GC comparisons say more about GC than Martin.

Edited January 22 by jedzep

[Dave F]

9 minutes ago, jedzep said:

Well, maybe, Dave.  But if you plunked a Taylor down in your mix, wonder what your ear would tell you.   Mine say cheap build equals cheap tone.  If one always drove a Rambler,  a Chevy Vega would seem like a nice ride.

These stories of GC comparisons say more about GC than Martin.

I have been down the Taylor rabbit hole. It’s like they have no soul. I’ve had the top of the line models and after the honeymoon they left and went back home. 
My favorite tone wood is rosewood in a Martin D forward shifted guitar. Looks wise and comfort wise, Gibson wins out. I’ve been through a lot of Gibson rosewood guitars looking for that tone that I like. It took a while but I have two I like. A NL RW and an SJ RW. 
And I agree that your comparisons can only be based on what you’ve been exposed to. I know my exposure to good vintage guitars is limited. I could see me getting hold of the right guitar and getting rid of everything else. Until then, I’ll keep looking and holding on to the herd. 

[PrairieDog]

1 hour ago, jedzep said:

Well, maybe, Dave.  But if you plunked a Taylor down in your mix, wonder what your ear would tell you.   Mine say cheap build equals cheap tone.  If one always drove a Rambler,  a Chevy Vega would seem like a nice ride.

These stories of GC comparisons say more about GC than Martin.

Maybe I’m misunderstanding, are you implying Taylor’s  have cheap builds leading to “cheap tone?” I have to disagree and that, like any line, it all depends on woods and builds.

Our Taylor Urban Ash was in the same bracket as the Martin in question here, and we tried both at the time.  The Taylor won out with an overall richer, warmer tone with politely balanced trebles.  I think the urban ash mediates the usual “taylor twang” that so many folks find hard to love especially in lower Taylor models (I know I do.) 

The special Sinker Redwood/Rosewood 714 Ltd price-wise was head to head with the specials in Martin’s 28 series. (We got super lucky on that one.) It does not sound low rent by any definition.  It’s got an incredible voice for finger picking. 

Of course any of the lower end of any line will perhaps sound a bit “less than”  than the premier builds. But I think gems can be found in any of the better brands. that is why I still pick up those Martins with hope. 

Edited January 22 by PrairieDog

[jedzep]

I'm kind of like you, except with Taylors.  I've never heard a Taylor that didn't sound a little too boxy, maybe lacking in fullness, or maybe balance, so I can say I'm no fan.   So when you noted the 714 was 1/4 of the theoretical Martin price, I just did the economic calculation.   I find that 'boxy' lack of balance true in big bod Guilds, too, at least after Hoboken and perhaps Westerly models.  They've been cutting corners a little, too, though Guild nerds are claiming the newer USA models are now built to higher standards.  Prices are reflecting this.  Many guitars have their place in the more affordable player market.  Maybe Taylor's trying to jack up their top tier, too.

Since no one can sample everything under every condition, it'll all just be opinion anyway.

[Sgt. Pepper]

I've played guitars that I own, and on certain days I don't like the sound of them sometimes. 

What if you were to go back the next week and the Martin sounded good again?

Edited January 22 by Sgt. Pepper

[PrairieDog]

13 minutes ago, jedzep said:

I'm kind of like you, except with Taylors.  I've never heard a Taylor that didn't sound a little too boxy, maybe lacking in fullness, or maybe balance, so I can say I'm no fan.   So when you noted the 714 was 1/4 of the theoretical Martin price, I just did the economic calculation.   I find that 'boxy' lack of balance true in big bod Guilds, too, at least after Hoboken and perhaps Westerly models.  They've been cutting corners a little, too, though Guild nerds are claiming the newer USA models are now built to higher standards.  Prices are reflecting this.  Many guitars have their place in the more affordable player market.  Maybe Taylor's trying to jack up their top tier, too.

Since no one can sample everything under every condition, it'll all just be opinion anyway.

I should clarify, the 25% referred to the price of the 1983 150th anniversary Brazilian Martin I nearly picked up. He was asking 8k (a really good deal. A small, legendary, local shop owner’s own guitar, these can top 10k.)

The Ltd edition Sinker/RW Taylor that came home instead originally sold in the high 4,000s, higher than some of the Martin 28 series at the time.  We scored it for less than half that because GC read the serial number wrong and priced it against a run of the mill sitka/rw 714 which goes for under 3,000.  

And at what we paid,  it was still less than half of a new Martin rosewood 28.  Between three rosewood guitars, all I’m saying is the Taylor won the derby with a surprising sound that just doesn’t quit. 

[PrairieDog]

54 minutes ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

I've played guitars that I own, and on certain days I don't like the sound of them sometimes. 

What if you were to go back the next week and the Martin sounded good again?

I actually considered that, and left the shop thinking I was going to come back one more time before I put a nail in it, even with the pain in my hand from the neck. I was convinced  it had to be me , since there was no logical reason to not love a 50 year old,  special edition, Brazilian Martin guitar.  

Then my head got turned by the special Taylor when we stopped into GC on the  drive home.  The price, and the sound, told me that while the Martin might be a better investment, the Taylor was going to be more rewarding to play at a far easier pinch  on the wallet.

Edited January 22 by PrairieDog

[styler]

2 hours ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

I've played guitars that I own, and on certain days I don't like the sound of them sometimes. 

What if you were to go back the next week and the Martin sounded good again?

I go through this too.   Playing at a shop is always hard for me.  Once I get home, I may find I don't like the sound at all or get lucky and find its better than expected.   Guitars are weird.  

Not really, I think we are weird. To be honest we get too critical. For me anyway, I can say I'm not the player most guitars I currently own or ever owned deserve. 

Edited January 22 by styler

[PrairieDog]

1 minute ago, styler said:

I go through this too.   Playing at a shop is always hard for me.  Once I get home  I may find I don't like the sound at all or get lucky and find its better that expected.   Guitars are weird.  

Not really I think we are weird. To be honest  we get to critical . For me anyway, I can say I'm not the player most guitars I currently own or ever owned deserve. 

Nod, I feel the same way.  Now that it has been a few months, I actually am okay with not having the vintage Martin now.  Much as I appreciated it for what it was, somebody else who knew what they were doing would be able to enjoy and play it far more than I think I ever would.  Funny how the instruments kinda sort themselves out in the end.

[Larsongs]

23 hours ago, Dave F said:

I think the best sounding guitar I’ve owned was a Martin D41 Special.  I reluctantly sold it because my hand was having issues with the neck. I’ve liked the sound of every 40’s series Martin that I’ve played. 
As far as the Martin 000 body, I think it is a great, comfortable body shape and I’ve had a few. I currently have a Custom Shop 000-14 all mahogany. I like the tone of an all mahogany. Besides the Martin, I have a Gibson ‘42 LG1 all hog and a 2016 Gibson L00 all hog. 
All a matter of taste. 

It’s definitely a matter of taste.. Mostly Rosewood vs Mahogany.. I’ve loved the sound of my D-35 from the day I got it in 1975 & more each year since.. Martin makes World Class Guitars from the D-18 to the D-45’s.. Arguably some of the best Guitars on the Planet.. 

I’ve played many smaller Body Martin & Gibson models I liked too… I look funny with them.. I think they look like Ukes on me..

Same with Gibson & USA Guilds.. They’re just different… I own Gibson, Epi & Martin Acoustics. I want to add a Guild.. I love Guitars by all these Companies.. 

Edited January 23 by Larsongs

[fortyearspickn]

Ten months have passed.  Wonder what the OP decided to do?     I suppose if we want 'closure'  we should just watch re-runs of  ''Gilligan's Island''.