Have I made a mistake buying a Martin 000-15m?

[Blondie]

I know this topic strays towards the dark side, but please hear me out..

I bought a new Gibson Hummingbird in 2010 (regular version) and it has been my only guitar for 13 years. It has been gigged to death and I've probably played around 700 shows with it. Somehow I have survived on this one guitar as it has been so reliable and I've never needed anything else.

Last week I decided I would love another guitar, more for a change than anything else and so I decided I would like to try a Martin. If I'm only going to have two guitars in my locker then owning a Gibson and a Martin seems a pretty good place to be.

I decided I wanted not only something I would hopefully keep for life, but also something very different to the Hummingbird, so after doing a ton of research online I thought the 000-15m could be the way to go. 

I know both guitars share Mahogony, but I wanted something completely different in feel, size, looks, tone, and still classic Martin. I also wanted something really lightweight (I often play 3 x 50 min sets) that I wouldn't be afraid to take out and gig and so I decided to stay away from the high end Martins but thought that $1500 was a good price point for getting a classic guitar but one I would not be afraid to get knocked around a little on the road.

I spent 2 hours in the guitar shop and tried everything, and to be honest, nothing really spoke to me. I was hoping for a "wow" moment and to get excited about being able to choose anything and coming home with another dream guitar (Hummingbird was my dream guitar as a teen) and the only guitar I really felt much affinity towards was a Gibson J-45, but that just seemed completely counter intuitive as it went against nearly all my reasons of choice for something new.

I thought perhaps I am just so used to my Hummingbird that the J-45 was bound to feel nice.. and I really wanted to own some of that Martin goodness that everyone talks about..

So I made my way to the 000-15m and I quite liked it. On first play it actually seemed to play better than my Hummingbird and I was convinced the action was actually lower than my bird (it isn't) even with just the store setup.

I decided to go for it, after all I play mainly solo/duo acoustic with no other instruments and all my research told me this would be the perfect guitar.

But now I've gotten it home and I tried it again and I just feel sorta... flat. It feels so much cheaper than my Hummingbird and the tone just feels really thin and almost tinny in comparison... I've decided to live with it, but can't help feeling I've made a mistake. I don't have money to burn by any means.

I've heard so many great things about this guitar and I really want to like it, but why do I feel like it is just half of the guitar that my hummingbird is? Am I just too inexperienced to appreciate it?

My only other ray of hope is that the guy in store told me they were strung with Elixir strings, I don't have much experience with them but I know they are thin sounding, could that also make so much of an impact?

Edited March 1, 2023 by Blondie
strings

[jedzep]

I'm an online used buyer only, and have more acoustic guitars than I should.  I look at the Martin 15 series, frankly, any all mahogany guitar, as a 'complementary' tone to spruce top dread or J, so you may be lacking something in that need for your performing.  That comfortable neck shape and string spacing is the reason it feels easy to fret. 

You say 'gigged to death', but a 'Bird' should be a lifer unless you're real hard on it, and I wouldn't feel the Martin 15 is a good fit to replace that kind of workhorse, though I love my 20 yr old 00015SM.  1500 bucks is a tough price point to find a new Martin anyway, so you're limited to that, or the 16 series, depending on what's available.  Martin Standard Series models are up in the high 2's, especially for something with guts. 

If you go over to the Martin geek site, UMGF, there's a discussion going on about 2K guitar options. 
https://umgf.com/viewtopic.php?p=2735393#p2735393

Edited March 1, 2023 by jedzep

[Blondie]

41 minutes ago, jedzep said:

You say 'gigged to death', but a 'Bird' should be a lifer unless you're real hard on it, and I wouldn't feel the Martin 15 is a good fit to replace that kind of workhorse, though I love my 20 yr old 00015SM.  1500 bucks is a tough price point to find a new Martin anyway, so you're limited to that, or the 16 series, depending on what's available.  Martin Standard Series models are up in the high 2's, especially for something with guts. 

Thanks for your insight, really appreciate it. And it's nice to know that another Gibson fan also has a Martin 000-15 in his collection and feels it can add something. I am guessing the SM version can't be so different in tone, so you must understand me a little when I say this guitar lacks the fullness of something like a Hummingbird. It just feels like a kind of "cheaper" sound in comparison.. Perhaps there are nuances I am missing that will take time to come out. It is definitely an easy guitar to play, I didn't realise there would be a difference in string spacing to my Hummingbird.

[Larsongs]

I think anybody buying their first Martin should buy a D-28.. It’s Rosewood & Spruce & has that great Martin Sound you’ve heard on a million records.. Then, if you want another Martin get a 000 or whatever..

The D-28 is the essential Martin.. Or it’s bigger Brother, a D-35.. Which is essentially the same Guitar.. Just the next step up & has an even bigger Sound.. 

[fortyearspickn]

1 hour ago, Larsongs said:

I think anybody buying their first Martin should buy a D-28.. It’s Rosewood & Spruce & has that great Martin Sound you’ve heard on a million records.. Then, if you want another Martin get a 000 or whatever..

The D-28 is the essential Martin.. Or it’s bigger Brother, a D-35.. Which is essentially the same Guitar.. Just the next step up & has an even bigger Sound.. 

That's more than double what the OP  said he was going to spend. 

 

[Remmuts]

It’s possible the OP just doesn’t care for the all mahogany sound.

[Dave F]

I have two all hog guitars, both Gibson's. They have a different sound that I like. 

I like my Martin's too. $1500 is good enough where you can break even or won't lose much if you sell it.

Definitely try some different strings or if you plug in, add a pickup.

[zombywoof]

I only own one all-mahogany guitar which is a 1942 Harmony figure 8 body H165.  Cool percussive sound to it with a comfy Louisville Slugger V neck.

 I have, however, run into guitars which took me a bit of time to figure out.  Those here will probably remember my woeful tale of trying to come to terms with a certain 1920 Gibson L3 and scratching my head trying to figure out how to pull music out of it.  It did take a bit but we are now on the best of terms.  No, it ain't going to do everything I ask of it but when to comes to playing blues, rags or backing a Texas fiddle tune it will send more than a few guitars running for cover.

Edited March 2, 2023 by zombywoof

[jedzep]

I did part with my awesome mahogany '31 L0 reluctantly, but the past is written in stone.  If I were needing a hog Martin, I think the deep bod Jeff Tweedy  would fill the bill.  There's 1 or 2 out there on Reverb with 'make offer' option I'd love to hit, but I'm waiting on the CS deep bod 0018 delivery that will put me in the hole, yet may put my GAS in remission.

https://reverb.com/item/65687172-martin-00-db-jeff-tweedy

You're in remission ZW, right? 

Edited March 2, 2023 by jedzep

[MorrisrownSal]

I own a D15, and have owned 000 and 00 15s as well (I like the 00 better).

The 15 series is great. But if you have that feeling now, take it back, because you won’t magically be happy with it later on.

A good complement to a Bird might be a 000-28, instead. What’s $3,000 among friends, right?

If you just want a gigger, get an Eastman E2OM for about $550 and throw in a Baggs M1. Or get a Taylor 110.

I am glad you love your Bird. They are special guitars.

 

[dhanners623]

Lose the Elixirs and try other strings. Experiment. I know some people swear by Elixirs, but I never saw the attraction.

Also, keep in mind it’s just going to sound different from your Hummingbird. You’ve spent all these years associating your Hummingbird with how a guitar should sound that when another guitar enters the picture, you naturally compare them. That’s not fair to either guitar.

Give yourself a chance to get used to the guitar. You’ll probably find your playing style changes slightly to take advantage of what the 000-15M is good at and even excels at.

You’re fortunate enough to have two very good guitars. Don’t complain. Play.

[GuitarsAnn]

If you really are looking at a bold, full body sound, you need an HD 28. These are amazing. When getting a new guitar, if it doesn't WOW you, move on. I have two Martins. One is a D12-28 in the Sunburst color that I bought in 2011 and a D45V I bought in 2019. Both WOW'd me. If a guitar doesn't sing to you, it's not for you. See if you can trade it back for the right one.

[Jinder]

Martins and Gibsons are fundamentally different guitars. I have an SJ200, Dove and J45 that have been my main guitars forever, but I’ve also got a ‘97 D18 Golden Era prototype that I absolutely love to bits and play all the time. 
 

Sometimes, after playing a big, loud, “Widescreen” guitar such as my SJ200, the D18 can seem quiet, less bassy and rich, less dynamic. But after acclimatising to it, the D18 is a world of its own and very musical indeed. That acclimation time can be super important. More time with the instrument in question could be exactly what you need.
 

The key question here is whether you’re looking for a second guitar that gives you more of what your Hummingbird has to offer, or whether you are seeking a complementary (but different) second tonal palette to draw from. 
 

Maybe the 15 series isn’t for you. I very much enjoy the 15s but I’ve never bought one as matt/satin finishes aren’t my thing. Sonically, they tick the boxes…maybe if they do a gloss run for the UK like they did in the US! 
 

Let us know how you get on. The 15s are in no way a cheap option (they’re still an expensive US made guitar!) but perhaps a different Martin would float your boat more. 

[BluesKing777]

I saw the shop near me got in a new (Martin) 000-15M yesterday...quick look at their wares just then and it is...gone! Truly, if they only sold Martin 000-15M and had a shopload, they would all be gone too! Very popular....

I had a thing for mahogany tops ........ and one thing I can say is that you might need to play it a bit harder to open up the top, maybe belt it a bit. Otherwise it will take 80 years to open up like my old 1944 Martin 0-17.

A couple of years ago I saw then bought an OMC-15ME, OM cutaway with a wider nut 1 3/4" but still a skinny bridge spec. I really wanted the Waterloo WL-14MH, all mahogany L-00 shape but they were unobtanium at the time...then I found the local version, my Maton EBW-808 deep body all Australian blackwood ...it has binding and scalloped bracing and other stuff the Martin doesn't and the big guy - the Maton AP5-Pro pickup system - WOW! This guitar has hardwood top and needed a belting to open it up as well!

My Martin OMC-15ME:

:

 

My Maton EBW808:

 

BluesKing777.

 

 

Edited March 3, 2023 by BluesKing777

[zombywoof]

It really sounds to me like a not uncommon second guessing whether you chose wisely or not.  I would think though until the day the Martins and Gibsons get to be as boringly consistent as Taylors, you were overly optimistic about finding that one with what you call the "Wow" factor in just two hours at one store.  It is not hard to find a guitar you really like or even one which you consider special.  But finding one that goes beyond into the very special category can be a hard row to hoe.  

As the last time I bought a brand spanking new guitar (a Guild F40) was some 50 years ago, I do not recall if I felt any pressure to undo the deal under a return policy.  While in the end down the road the guitar did not work out as well as I might have hoped I was able to undo it by being able to quickly sell it.  And as somebody above has noted you would probably be in the same boat as those all-mahogany Martin 000 size guitars are quite popular.

Edited March 3, 2023 by zombywoof

[rustystrings]

I experienced a moment - just ONE moment - of second-guessing when I bought my J-45 16 years ago.  But then it passed, and now we're pretty much inseparable.

I played a 000-15M a couple of months back, and it didn't move me, but it's hard for me to judge a guitar fairly in a Guitar Center.  Oddly enough, I DID really like its cheaper, made-in-Mexico stablemate the 000-10e that I played yesterday.  That may be because it's a 24.9-in scale instead of the 25.5 on the 15s.

Both mahogany and sapele tops REALLY need to be worked, though.  And I'll pile on to the "different strings" bandwagon.   I know I sound like a broken record, but I really like the Pearse Pure Nickel acoustic strings, the .012-.054 set, because they don't have the over bright jangle of phosphor bronze.  I get a really good mid-range out of them, and long life.

[Tim Tim]

The 000-15 shouldn’t sound “tinny” or “flat” at all.  To the contrary, mahogany topped guitars are usually thick, warm, and woody sounding.  My old 000-15SM was a wonderful guitar for that sound.  Very syrupy rich sounding.  That’s either not a great example, doesn’t have the right strings (try Med/Light gauge Martin Retros!), or the guitar is just not a match for your ears.   They’re pretty popular for good reason though.  But not a standard series guitar.  At $1200-1400, not bad for that sound tho.

[Rambler]

What Jinder said about there being a distinct Martin sound.   Each picked note is a gem but they all want to let go at once.    Takes some control if you are doing intricate fingerpicking.    Also, part of the deal with a 000 is that you are going to be moving less air, so you may sense less presence than you would with a jumbo or dread.  It may sound good to your audience, but it might not for you!   I have a 00018GE  which is about as good as it gets for a hog 000. but never took to it and just got back in the Gibson camp with an SJ. 

The combo of woods and bracing on the 15-series is going to make it less brillaint than the spruce top models.   A string change is not going to be a game changer.  First question Id ask is whether or not you can get along with the basic Martin sound.   If so, an upgrade might be in order, spruce top. rosewoods b&s or a dread.  

 

Edited March 11, 2023 by Rambler

[Larsongs]

I can finger Pick & flat Pick equally well on my Martin D-35 & my Gibson J-160E…. I’m not buying the Flat Pick Theory…

The 000-15 being all Mahogany is going to have a completely different Sound than a Spuce & Rosewood Guitar..  Mahogany guitars are usually thick, warm, and woody sounding.

The OP has a Hummingbird which are usually Spruce & Mahogany (if I’m not mistaken)… So he has that Sound already & it’s a good one!

If the OP wants the Spruce/Rosewood sound he should look at Guitars built with those Woods.. Which leads me back to the D-28… It costs more but that’s the Sound heard on a zillion Records that most of us expect to hear from a Martin… If the OP can afford a Hummingbird he can probably afford a D-28…

With both of those Guitars it would make an incredible Acoustic 6 String Arsenal!!!

 

 

Edited March 11, 2023 by Larsongs

[jedzep]

What in the hell is IBG?  China?  Really?

If you are a player with more than one guitar, more than one tone/brand/build, you should have the versatility to work them all.  My only all mahogany git, a 17 yr. old 00015SM 12 fretter has a working place among my 8 Gibs, Martins, and Guilds.  If you gotta' go one and done, that's a different shopping spree.  A new mahogany Martin has to be played a while, but if I had it to do again I'd look at the deep bod Martin Jeff Tweedy 00 model.

https://reverb.com/item/65687172-martin-00-db-jeff-tweedy

Edited March 11, 2023 by jedzep

[Larsongs]

5 hours ago, ALD323 said:

I once thought I was a Martin man. I found out the hard way that I am not. I owned many Martins including the   HD-28,   00028EC ,   the all hog Martins two of them I think ,the Dread, and the 00015, a beautiful J-40, and many, many Taylors including the 900, the 700, and others. I also owned a beautiful Guild D-50 from the mid 70'era, a Westerly model If I recall, and two RainSongs graphite guitars a dread and a Jumbo. ....All of them are gone now. I never looked back  after I bought my first Gibson, a used J-45 standard, I then added a new Gibson Hummingbird, and my fate was sealed. Those are now the two most important guitars I own. For me, nothing can replace them, and nothing can compliment them either. You are a solo singer, I HIGHLY recommend getting rid of that Martin now, even at a loss, and find a way to get a new or used Gibson J-45 which is, in my 40 years of playing, the only guitar that is different but "complementary to your faithful Hummingbird. The J-45 is highly known and is called the singer songwriter guitar. It may even work better for your voice than the Hummingbird if that sounds possible. Can't afford it? Sell you Martin at a loss if need be or return it, and spend just $799.00 on an INSPIRED BY GIBSON (IBG J-45, all solid wood acoustic guitar) I now own both the IBG Hummingbird (849.00) and the IBG J-45 . These truly will compliment and compete with your Gibby bird because they play and look nearly as good as the Gibson, and they are made by Gibson to do so. Life is short. Know what you like, get it now, play it till you die. That is my motto. Best of luck.

....And by the way, changing your strings will not help one bit, I've been through that tread mill 100 times with each of the Martins I sold off. If you are not pleased with the guitar you have, strings will not make you happy with it, they will only temporarily subvert you into thinking so, until you finally get rid of it and get what is right for you. Fifty years of owning and playing acoustic guitars is what taught me that this is true. 

Not sure if this was intended for the OP or me?

If it’s me, In addition to my 1975 Martin D-35, I also have a Gibson Bozeman Masterbilt Solid Top J-160E, which after playing a jillion J-45’s of every kind, IMO, is the King of Gibson Slope Should J Series Guitars… If I could find an equally as good or better J-45 I’d buy it.. And, I have seriously been looking for several years! I do want the right one…

[kidblast]

these not the same guitars, they are supposed to be vastly different

if you can't appreciate the variance, that's ok    not your cup of tea.  don't over think this.  

[Dave F]

Here’s my two all mahogany

 

 

[MorrisrownSal]

Dave that’s just showing off.

 

anyways, for what it’s worth, I own the D15, I had owned the 000-15, 0000-15, and 00-25 as well.

 

this will sound weird. The 00-15 sounds the best. Not tinny. A spectacular model. One less zero makes the model better,

[Ozrhythm]

I’ve had my Martin 000-15M since 2013. It’s gotten better with age, the sound is mellow but the guitar is very responsive and slick to play. That said, you have to like the all-mahogany sound to really like it, and you have to like the “Martin sound,” which is more blended than, say, Taylor.  The 00015-M is lightweight with a tapered body that fits easily into the waist.  Keep playing it and give it time for the wood to age further.  That’s the nice thing about solid-wood guitars, they get better as they grow older.

BTW, my other guitar is a local all-Blackwood, a Cole Clark (Australian), which also has a gorgeous but different sound and is also slick to play.  Plus, it has ace electronics. It’s bigger and heavier than the Martin.

You pays your money and you takes your choice.  I wouldn’t be without either, but I am a sucker for mahogany guitars, ever since my first Gibson LG1 in 1957.