DaveJTR Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 Hello everyone, This is my very first post on the Gibson forum. I'm active on the Acoustic Guitar Forum and the Martin Forum, so it's nice to be here too. I've decided to get a new J-45, but I need your help. The new/current offerings are the Standard, 50s, 60s, and 1942 Banner Reissue. I have done my research and am aware of the technical differences between all of them (differing nut widths, nut/saddle materials, neck shapes, etcetera). The only one that I have played is the 60s J-45, and it blew my hair back. My purpose for this guitar will be as a vocal accompaniment. What do y'all recommend? I know that question would be like going into the Martin forum and asking a super broad question, but hopefully knowing that this guitar will serve as a backup to my singing (as opposed to a Bluegrass jam) will help narrow the field. I've been a Martin guy through and through for all my years, so any analogies using Martin terms (e.g., the neck is similar to Martin's _______ neck, the difference is like the difference between the Martin D-____ and D-_____, etcetera). Thanks for any advice!!! Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 Hi DaveJTR - Marts are great guitars - so are Gibsons. J-45s are fantastic and you probably did right in goin' for one. However you don't sound like a beginner and it would therefore be very difficult to send you in one particular direction. For that you may be to experienced and to navigate you through all the nuances of the legendary slope would be kind of blind-flying. You must search, try and try and try again, , , till the ideal ex appears. To not leave you empty handed, I'll recommend a black nut Standard. Never heard anyone complain about these (almost) and they were a hit from the start - many rode over the desks the last 10-15 years. Besides they have more power than fx the Historic Collection version, which saw light of day a decade or so earlier. Have good fun hunting and don't forget to remember : A workhorse can also be a poet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorrisrownSal Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 the bracing and top make a difference too. An Adirondack top with advanced (forward shifted) bracing has a different tone than straight braced Sitka. I love both tones. so… neck? 50s is chunky. I have that neck on my LG-2 Reissue. If you like a Martin D18GE kind of neck, you will like the 50s. The Standard is more like the Martin MLO necks on the Standard D18. throw out any generalizations of fixed bridge versus adjustable bridge. you liked the 60’s? Done, go get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveJTR Posted March 2, 2023 Author Share Posted March 2, 2023 30 minutes ago, E-minor7 said: Hi DaveJTR - Marts are great guitars - so are Gibsons. J-45s are fantastic and you probably did right in goin' for one. However you don't sound like a beginner and it would therefore be very difficult to send you in one particular direction. For that you may be to experienced and to navigate you through all the nuances of the legendary slope would be kind of blind-flying. You must search, try and try and try again, , , till the ideal ex appears. To not leave you empty handed, I'll recommend a black nut Standard. Never heard anyone complain about these (almost) and they were a hit from the start - many rode over the desks the last 10-15 years. Besides they have more power than fx the Historic Collection version, which saw light of day a decade or so earlier. Have good fun hunting and don't forget to remember : A workhorse can also be a poet The “try and try again” really resonates since I’ve heard that’s what one must do with Gibson acoustics. I’ve heard that the new lineup and guitars from the past few years have really been upped as far as consistency goes though. I’ll look into the black nut Standard. Thanks brother! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveJTR Posted March 2, 2023 Author Share Posted March 2, 2023 15 minutes ago, Salfromchatham said: the bracing and top make a difference too. An Adirondack top with advanced (forward shifted) bracing has a different tone than straight braced Sitka. I love both tones. so… neck? 50s is chunky. I have that neck on my LG-2 Reissue. If you like a Martin D18GE kind of neck, you will like the 50s. The Standard is more like the Martin MLO necks on the Standard D18. throw out any generalizations of fixed bridge versus adjustable bridge. you liked the 60’s? Done, go get it. I didn’t know J-45s had the different bracings. I do definitely like forward shifted and scalloped. I was under the impression all the current J-45s were braced the same. So is the new 1942 Banner Reissue a different bracing than the others since it’s an Adirondack top? I love the MLO. My Reimagined OM-28 has the MLO, so that would feel like going home. The YouTubers like the 50s a lot for tone and appointments over the standard, but they all mention the neck as a caveat. Very helpful brother. Thanks so much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 1 hour ago, DaveJTR said: The “try and try again” really resonates since I’ve heard that’s what one must do with Gibson acoustics. I’ve heard that the new lineup and guitars from the past few years have really been upped as far as consistency goes though. I’ll look into the black nut Standard. Thanks brother! I'd say the reason you have to try as many as possible is the finer variations of nature within the individual creatures, not inconsistency or so called 'dawgs' It that was the case there would be a lot more unsold Bozemans out there in the shops. I visited a quite big local store yesterday and asked why they only had 3 acoustic Gibsons. The guy told me they go further as soon as they come in - and that the shop couldn't get the orders home in time to keep up. Apropos bracing this film may be of interest. Ouh, , , got interrupted while writing this. The postman came with strings 😎 I try a couple unknown brands/types this time : Cleartone RED Copper Bronze 12-53 and Pyramid Western Round Core Bronze Strings 12-54. I need to mess with my 23 year old HD-28V - the highs are too tamed and velvetish. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorrisrownSal Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 EM. Interesting and true. I asked a Gibson exec if I could order a model that I didn’t buy when they did a recent run, pre pandemic. I was politely told that that model takes a lot of time, and the factory can’t make enough stock as it is to satisfy demand out there. and please tell me what strings are velvetish, as I may want to try them on an Eastman dread I have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murph Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 And... Always consider necks are like women. Sometimes different isn't bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, E-minor7 said: I'd say the reason you have to try as many as possible is the finer variations of nature within the individual creatures, not inconsistency or so called 'dawgs' It that was the case there would be a lot more unsold Bozemans out there in the shops. I visited a quite big local store yesterday and asked why they only had 3 acoustic Gibsons. The guy told me they go further as soon as they come in - and that the shop couldn't get the orders home in time to keep up. Apropos bracing this film may be of interest. Ouh, , , got interrupted while writing this. The postman came with strings 😎 I try a couple unknown brands/types this time : Cleartone RED Copper Bronze 12-53 and Pyramid Western Round Core Bronze Strings 12-54. I need to mess with my 23 year old HD-28V - the highs are too tamed and velvetish. What you really take away from the video is that forward and rear shifted bracing is a Martin thing. With Gibson the distance from the center of the X to the soundhole has traditionally been 7/8" to around 1 1/8". It was about the angle of the X. The bracing in the 1950s J200 as example, was so crazy wide they had to ladder mount the tone bars. On another note, while I have used the Pyramid Western Round Core strings off and on for years, are you saying that Cleartone has brought the discontinued Red Label strings back? I really liked them particularly on my ladder braced guitars. About as close as you get after those strings disappeared was the EQ Hybrid strings which have a copper bronze low E. As I was down to my last pack of the Red Label strings be still my beating heart. Edited March 2, 2023 by zombywoof Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortyearspickn Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 Dave, Welcome. Hope you get the help you need here. Not an easy answer, because J45s are quite varied - a hundred variations over the past several decades. although many were based on color and/or different Back/Side wood. The 'standard' J45 for decades was hugely popular with singer/songwriters ("The Workhorse") and for that reason, Gibson started creating related models. Even an "Inspired By Gibson" Epiphone for $750. That adds to the confusion in trying to get a handle on something as simple as "Which J45?" But, your having narrowed it down to a New One - makes it easier. !!! You say you've only tried one - so we don't know if you have the luxury of trying a dozen or so to kick the tires on, or if you are into the on line order and return mode, or the keep it for a year or so to decide ("Catch and Release'). The iconic version - with mahogany B/S all are a bit different, but not dramatically so! And, once selected - you can tweak the sound based on your string selection. As with anything - the actual purchase is complicated by the fact available inventory turns over regularly - so the one you tried, for example that 60s Model - may be gone in a week. So, if I were me - I'd narrow it down to a sub-species, such as the 60s version - by trying a few of each model, and then get that model if and when (at what price) you feel comfortable. One note, Gibsons are usually shipped with high action, so take that into account. Sometimes, it's just a leap of faith. G'Luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 (edited) I cannot recommend a thing because the Historic Line was just coming out when I bought what something in me said would be my last guitar. And pretty much anything I have played since then has involved only say noodlin' around in music shops with nothing leaving any kind of an impression on me. At least enough to take notice of. Until Gibson though gets to the point they are as boringly consistent as Taylors, the only way to pick choose one is to play as many of any particular model as you can get your hands on. Granted though that is not as easy as it used to be when if you wanted a J45 you had one and only one version to pick from. About the only thing I will look up when considering buying something I have not gotten my sweaty little hands on is neck specs mainly because they can quickly rule this or that guitar out by giving me something which is objective. Not easy to find such specs though as only a few sellers like Wildwood offer them up. But what made the wait for that last guitar (which remains the only instrument I had ever bought without playing first) less nerve racking than it could have been, is that the seller provided me with specs such as not only nut width but depth of neck at the 1st fret and down near the heel, string spread at the bridge, and even weight. While the sound was still up in the air, I at least knew the feel of the guitar would fall well within my comfort zone. Edited March 2, 2023 by zombywoof Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanvillRob Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 1 hour ago, Murph said: And... Always consider necks are like women. Sometimes different isn't bad. As Hank would say.....I Like To Have (Guitars) I've Never Had! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, Salfromchatham said: EM. Interesting and true. I asked a Gibson exec if I could order a model that I didn’t buy when they did a recent run, pre pandemic. I was politely told that that model takes a lot of time, and the factory can’t make enough stock as it is to satisfy demand out there. and please tell me what strings are velvetish, as I may want to try them on an Eastman dread I have. Aha, , , I'd like to hear what model that was. A small-body - a J. Browne ? Regarding velvetish steel, I withdraw - it's the instrument itself. Though a vintage-theme guitar, it's much smoother treb-voiced than more recent old-school dreads from Nazareth. Guess it's down to the forward shifted extra light nature (plus something unknown) of this model - and my ex is extraordinary strong (chosen above another from 2005 after several years of severe A/B'ing). I actually prefer something in between this HD-28V and the old school replicas. But still would pick a HD-28V over a HD-28, , , in most cases. HD-28s are FAB too though ! Did something wild during the weekend : Fine-sanded the top with mini-mini grain 'paper', lukewarm water and a drop of soap - circular motions and care. I know from experiments in my youth this can f... up a guitar sound, , , , but done with cat's paw it should be okay. Actually think it worked - but let's see after some weeks. . 2 hours ago, zombywoof said: What you really take away from the video is that forward and rear shifted bracing is a Martin thing. With Gibson the distance from the center of the X to the soundhole has traditionally been 7/8" to around 1 1/8". It was about the angle of the X. The bracing in the 1950s J200 as example, was so crazy wide they had to ladder mount the tone bars. On another note, while I have used the Pyramid Western Round Core strings off and on for years, are you saying that Cleartone has brought the discontinued Red Label strings back? I really liked them particularly on my ladder braced guitars. About as close as you get after those strings disappeared was the EQ Hybrid strings which have a copper bronze low E. As I was down to my last pack of the Red Label strings be still my beating heart. Perhaps - found the REDs on a huge official gear/instrument-site over here. They maybe re-introduced. What can you say about the Pyramids , , are they rough !? 👹 Edited March 2, 2023 by E-minor7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 11 minutes ago, DanvillRob said: As Hank would say.....I Like To Have (Guitars) I've Never Had! Hahe, , , copy that. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 Just now, E-minor7 said: Aha, , , I'd like to hear what model that was. A small-body - a J. Browne ? Regarding velvetish steel, I withdraw - it's the instrument itself. Though a vintage-theme guitar, it's much smoother treb-voiced than more recent old-school dreads from Nazareth. Guess it's down to the forward shifted extra light nature (plus something unknown) of this model - and my ex is extraordinary strong (chosen above another from 2005 after several years of severe A/B'ing). I actually prefer something in between this HD-28V and the old school replicas. But still would pick a HD-28V over a HD-28, , , in most cases. HD-28s are FAB too though ! Did something wild during the weekend : Fine-sanded the top with mini-mini grain 'paper', lukewarm water and a drop of soap - circular motions and care. I know from experiments in my youth this can f... up a guitar sound, , , , but done with cat's paw it should be okay. Actually think it worked - but let's see after some weeks. . Perhaps - found the REDs on a huge official gear/instrument-site over here. They maybe re-introduced. What can you say about the Pyramids , , are the rough !? 👹 After they were discontinued prices quickly went up on the Red Label strings. I would appreciate it if you could drop me a not though letting me know where you got them. I like the Pyramids as far as sound. They remind me a bit of the long-gone Snake Oil band. The reason I have not played them more consistently is even though they are wound on a round core they feel kind of stiff to me. My favorite strings though remain Newtones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 3 hours ago, Salfromchatham said: and please tell me what strings are velvetish, as I may want to try them on an Eastman dread I have. Velvetish was a polite way of saying mushy, , , which is a raw way of saying slightly unclear. As said this is side-effect of the hyper responsive dread. 46 minutes ago, zombywoof said: After they were discontinued prices quickly went up on the Red Label strings. I would appreciate it if you could drop me a not though letting me know where you got them. I like the Pyramids as far as sound. They remind me a bit of the long-gone Snake Oil band. The reason I have not played them more consistently is even though they are wound on a round core they feel kind of stiff to me. My favorite strings though remain Newtones. Zomb - we have a behind-curtain dialog goin' from 2014. Look there - and if it fails, write here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the other side Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 4 hours ago, Murph said: And... Always consider necks are like women. Sometimes different isn't bad. I guess that means it's still Bacon. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egoidealmusic Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 To go back to guitars, I can't recommend the 1950s enough, and a great guitar for guitar/vocals. Of course, this depends on your vocal sound, I guess, but that's my vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissouriPicker Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 If you’ve got the bucks and the guitar feels like an extension of who you are, buy it! Life is short. Buy the guitar. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveJTR Posted March 3, 2023 Author Share Posted March 3, 2023 Thanks for all the input guys. I played a 50s, 60s, and Standard tonight. I didn’t mind the bigger neck of the 50s, but I liked the Standard neck because it was most like my MLO Martin neck. I ordered the Standard from Sweetwater, and she’ll be here Monday. Will post a NGD on Monday with pics! Thanks again my new brothers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 Congratulations - so the one you get is the you tried (as I read it). Very exciting days ahead, , , , will or won't it be what you dreamt up. I predict there may be a Gibson-craze waiting. We'll see ~ Look forward to the pictures and a handful of words about your coupling. 'Ave a good weekend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silversurfer Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 Neck shape is a personal thing. You’re either going to like the bigger 50s neck, slimmer 60s neck, or you’ll prefer the standard. Aesthetics are secondary, but still important. Personally, I’m not a fan of the 50s pickguard. But it can be replaced. I went with the Standard, but made quite a few mods to make it perfect: tuners, saddle, pins, pickup. I am a firm believer that the Tusq saddle in a Standard should be replaced with bone and that removing the UST makes a noticeable difference in unplugged tone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanvillRob Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 9 hours ago, DaveJTR said: Thanks for all the input guys. I played a 50s, 60s, and Standard tonight. I didn’t mind the bigger neck of the 50s, but I liked the Standard neck because it was most like my MLO Martin neck. I ordered the Standard from Sweetwater, and she’ll be here Monday. Will post a NGD on Monday with pics! Thanks again my new brothers. Not just photos....send a video....wanna hear it! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustystrings Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 FWIW, the warmest tone I have gotten consistently from a steel-string guitar is my '05 J-45 Historic Collection when fitted with John Pearse Pure Nickels, the .012-.054 set. Then again, I play bareknuckle without picks, and go for a tone grounded in folk-baroque and 60s folk revival fused with delusions of Wes Montgomery. Seriously, the nickels don't have the overly bright jangle of phosphor bronze and to my ears give me a sound that I perceive as more of the guitar and less of the strings, if that makes sense. I'm looking forward to photos and videos! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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