The Dynamics of Pick Control

[John Shiflet]

I appreciate all of you for making me feel welcomed here. I know there's some serious players "out there" and since this seems to be the better place to ask such questions, I've had an enduring fascination with how picks interact with guitar strings to produce sounds.  I'm an oddball "player", by being someone who's always been a lefty, yet always played guitar right handed. Go figure, huh? An advantage to this self imposed handicap is that I can squeeze frets with vise-like firmness producing clear notes and chords. Even at my, um... age, I have been able to pick up speed with increased practice in my fret runs.

One issue remains unresolved: how to compensate for the backwards, upside down, left playing, right handed , strumming of the guitar strings with a relatively standard Clayton
Spike triangular pick? I've even used uh, "Gorilla snot", a humorously named piney resin type grip improver, to hold onto the pick with better control. After all, the pick merely communicates to the strings the ideas from the player's mind delivered through his or her fingers. I recently ordered some cork rings with stick-on glue to attach to picks for better control . I may forfeit any future royalties, but I'll share that a pick with the absolute best control connecting between the fingers and the strings, will embrace and fill in the open spaces around the contour of the two fingers. It almost forms a three dimensional grip rather than the flat (typically, thumb and forefinger)  standard way of holding a pick. How can that be accomplished? I'll ask you a simple question- have you ever used foam earplugs that you squeeze around before sticking in your ears? I think that type of highly pliable soft foam, if glued onto a pick in a raised mound-like configuration in the center, when squeezed, would increase finger control significantly. I also think one of the greatest attractions to (Gibson, of course) guitar playing is the physical challenge of making pleasing sounds come out of 6 or 12 strings stretched between two instrument ends. Playing the piano, where much of the physical work to extract sounds is done by keys and hammers, a Piano  player merely has to press down the keys in the correct sequence, under a given pressure to be in harmony with a given musical score. The guitar, even if electrified, is a more primitive device for making music, demanding more from the player, and akin to ancient string instruments played by our ancestors in the distant past. Since I've somewhat described the ideal pick, I'll share another thought I've had germane to older guitar players. I've wondered if it were possible to create a player's "glove" that would mechanically enhance the player's finger movements thus giving those with arthritic conditions better playing results ?

In summary, since I was a teenager, I've been fascinated with how guitars produce sounds. I equally understand it would not be considered "cheating" to have a pick with superior grip control so I'm on a quest to find such a thing.  If anyone knows of a pick having such grip control advantages, please let me know, The prime motivation behind this is I'm not likely to switch to a lefty guitar anytime soon even if it means always playing guitar , backwards, upside down,  and playing right by a left handed person. Is that exotic enough? Thanks!

[Larsongs]

I am left handed & play right handed & throw a Ball & Bat right handed.. I think it was because I only had access to a right handed Baseball Glove & a right handed Guitar. Just about everything else I do left handed.. Although, I can do a lot of things right or left handed.. 

I do use dynamics in my Picking styles.. Depending on the music I play..

I like the idea of Picks with better grip.. I use a gray colored one that has a grip.. Can’t think of it’s brand name.. They’re pretty good but I don’t care for the softer rubbery plastic they’re made of as I think it takes away from the sound.. But, I like the grip.. 

I’d like to find the perfect Pick with some type of grip..

[Sheepdog1969]

I am also a lefty who plays righty. The way I see it, my left hand is my "smart hand", that has better dexterity and strength, which is exactly what is needed on the fretboard. My right hand is my dumb hand, and (in my opinion) is the better option for my strumming/picking/basic finger picking style.

As for picks, I have been using Dunlop Tortex .60mm for strumming rhythm guitar parts, and Dunlop Tortex Flow 1.35 mm for quicker, more precise pick work. They grip really well, and are NOT glossy, (glossy equals "slippery" to me). I especially like the more pointed pick end on the Flow, (vs. the more rounded end on the .60), which has allowed me to play faster and cleaner than the picks I have used before.

[John Shiflet]

Thanks Larsongs and Sheepdog 1969 (BTW, that was a good year) for your input. I did some further thinking about picks that would better transfer finger movements to the strings and what substances or materials they could be coated or made with that would best accomplish that purpose. Have you ever had the misfortune of stepping in a wad of bubble gum? Remember how gooey and sticky it was? That clearly would be overkill on a pick surface but if modified to a more solid state yet still pliable and just a bit sticky, that might be the optimum situation.  Then again, I suppose a drop of super glue gel on either pick side would hold the pick in place very well, but also totally impractical.  If the material around the grip point wrapped and supported the sides of the finger tips better, I think that would translate to better control.  Science does not yet know how to generate spontaneous organic growth of "picks" that are extensions of fingers except of course natural nails but they point in only one direction.  In summary, I think I'll continue to experiment around and perhaps I'll have a "Eureka" moment.

Those players like Derek Trucks (who knows his way around an SG)  must have very thick callouses to play bare handed without a pick,. The man is also kind of known for his excellent slide work too. One minor item I forgot to mention  besides my right arm being my "dumb" arm, I didn't do it any favors back in 1992 when one night at an auction I was working as floor help, I had to reach awkwardly around a rather plump lady who was in a trance of some kind to fetch a 10 Gallon Redwing ceramic crock with only my right hand and although I was successful, I heard an audible ripping of muscles in that arm like tearing a T-shirt.  The auction house owner, a personal friend, had no insurance or coverage for his part time employees so I had to put up with a sore arm for a couple of weeks as well as notable weakness in that arm lasting to this day. I work out daily and have a well developed left arm muscle but not on the right. I've noticed wrist fatigue after about 30 minutes of hard playing so I suppose now the next accessory to find is an elastic tennis wrist band for support. Or, of course, we could just take one of those little overnight pills that physically turns back the clock to your 20's but I hear they are pretty hard to find.

 

[RBSinTo]

John,

Very interesting and thought-provoking posts.

I too am left-handed, but do a number of things right-handed, such as playing guitar.

With respect to pick usage, I use .60mm  Dunlops  as I don't like the feel of thicker ones. My only pick affectation is that they must be grey, because that colour sounds better.

I do find that when doing hard struming, that the pick tends to twist between my thumb and index finger, but since I don't play gigs, it isn't terribly problematic.

Wearing the finger and thumb tips of thin rubber gloves, or even the ends of condoms might improve grip, but they'd have to be durable enough to last, as well as being thin enough so as not to reduce finger tip sensitivity. 

Another solution (aside from a "sticky" surfaced pick) might be picks with a "collar" that slip onto the index finger or thumb.

However, they would have to be custom-made to ensure that the pick orientation was optimum for each player, and so would likely be impractical to produce commercially. This thought has given me an idea to make a pick with a collar from the plastic of take-out food containers, and heat-bending the collar and see if that works.

Another DIY project for me., and I'll let you know if it works.

RBSinTo

 

 

Edited April 7 by RBSinTo

[fortyearspickn]

I use 3 different picks -  but one of them is the Dunlop Tortex  I think it's  .7 and yellow.    I put a type of 'medical bandage tape. on the bottom half for drop.  It's that clear tape you can rip sections off easily:  3M 'Transpore'.  Stays stuck and lasts forever.

[ksdaddy]

I don't use anything sticky, I just find I have better control over the situation and the pick is less likely to shift if I pick with the rounded end. My weapon of choice is a white Tortex 1.5mm Sharp. I do have the pointy end in reserve!

[merciful-evans]

An easy way to improve pick grip is to drill a few small holes in the centre. 

This is one of the picks I made years ago. 4 holes in this one. Its a lot thicker than a Clayton but that should make no difference. 

[John Shiflet]

On 4/7/2024 at 10:29 AM, RBSinTo said:

John,

Very interesting and thought-provoking posts.

I too am left-handed, but do a number of things right-handed, such as playing guitar.

With respect to pick usage, I use .60mm  Dunlops  as I don't like the feel of thicker ones. My only pick affectation is that they must be grey, because that colour sounds better.

I do find that when doing hard struming, that the pick tends to twist between my thumb and index finger, but since I don't play gigs, it isn't terribly problematic.

Wearing the finger and thumb tips of thin rubber gloves, or even the ends of condoms might improve grip, but they'd have to be durable enough to last, as well as being thin enough so as not to reduce finger tip sensitivity. 

Another solution (aside from a "sticky" surfaced pick) might be picks with a "collar" that slip onto the index finger or thumb.

However, they would have to be custom-made to ensure that the pick orientation was optimum for each player, and so would likely be impractical to produce commercially. This thought has given me an idea to make a pick with a collar from the plastic of take-out food containers, and heat-bending the collar and see if that works.

Another DIY project for me., and I'll let you know if it works.

RBSinTo

 

 

"or even the ends of condoms might improve grip" Laughing...I don't think I have the cojones to try that one. All good ideas, though. I do think in a world where there's custom made everything that taking thumb and forefinger impressions (like a dentist does for crowns or implants) then sending those back to a lab to create perfectly fitting picks in a variety of colors and shapes, might be marketable. Say $2 each, with a $20 charge for finger tip impressions?  (kept on file for future orders) I'd buy a dozen or so and test them out. Of course, some prototypes would need to be created to test the concept in a lab setting before tooling up for production. (and even then, the market may not be that large) Of course, if you could get someone like Robert Fripp of King Crimson, who said in an interview that he's left handed but plays right handed, to endorse your picks, that might open up the market a little more. Then again, how many today even know of King Crimson or who Robert Fripp is?  Maybe look around and see if there's some younger lefty-righties who are better known. I keenly await the outcome of your experiments. PM me if you wish. 

[John Shiflet]

17 hours ago, merciful-evans said:

An easy way to improve pick grip is to drill a few small holes in the centre. 

This is one of the picks I made years ago. 4 holes in this one. Its a lot thicker than a Clayton but that should make no difference. 

Now that's an intriguing design. Looks like the edges are beveled too. I did see some picks with hex shaped holes in the middle as well as the aforementioned cork circles with a sticky side to stick on either side of a pick. I ordered some the other day and await delivery so I can try them out.  In a thinking outside the box mode. I've seen violin bows being used on guitars (didn't Jimmy Page use one on a Zeppelin song?)  Pianos used felt tipped hammers to make sounds and there's probably a dozen more possibilities for making sounds on guitar strings. And no, I'm not referring to Jimi Hendrix, a classic lefty playing a right strung Strat unside down, plucking the strings with his teeth, but there are surely other ways.  How does your custom pick play? I assume the thicker pick material is more pliable than the stiff commercial versions.  Thanks for sharing.

[CROWB8]

Wow!

Had no idea there were many others like me. I'm  likely right handed, but taught left handed by teachers because I Look like my father, and he's a lefty. So in summary, I'm a righty who does everything lefty, but plays a guit righty.

Me thinks you're not normal unless you're functionally dysfunctional in some way. 🤪

I sneak up on the pick so that just the tip protrudes beyond my finger tip. No rotation or slippage. This allows me to call out harmonics by simply pinching up on it so that the pick strikes string first, but then the string is brushed by my thumb all in one motion. Depending on hand position, you can divide a string into 3/4s or 1/4 harmonics. Problem is, playing chords, I end up shaving my index fingernail to the quick.

Edited April 9 by CROWB8

[John Shiflet]

2 minutes ago, CROWB8 said:

Wow!

Had no idea there were many others like me. I'm  likely right handed, but taught left handed by teachers because I Look like my father, and he's a lefty. So in summary, I'm.  A righty who does everything lefty, but plays a guitar righty.

Me thinks you're not normal unless you're functionally dysfunctional in some way. 🤪

I sneak up on the pick so that just the tip protrudes beyond my finger tip. No rotation or slippage. This allows me to call out harmonics by simply pinching up on it so that the pick strikes string first, but then the string is brushed by my thumb all in one motion. Depending on hand position, you can divide a string into 3/4s or 1/4 harmonics. Problem is, playing chords, I end up shaving my index fingernail to the quick.

Problem is, playing chords, I end up shaving my index fingernail to the quick. Exactly-my cuticles get banged up sometimes too. I'm kind of an intense player so I can do finger damage even before I'm aware of it. Doctors or psychologists probably have a name for this crossover handedness. All I know is that I'm the only one in my family who's left handed.  The only one in the family who plays guitar as well  but not sure if the two are connected.  The pick or whatever is used to engage the strings to make sounds, is critical for producing a certain sound you're seeking. Strike too hard or too softly and the sound isn't going to be what you want it to be.  The nuances of the sounds are what give a 3-D sonic depth to the melody. Guitar masters are adept in producing exactly the sounds they want to hear from their guitars.  Take a master like Jimmy Page of Zeppelin fame...that man was (is) a sonic wizard. I found it curious that he and the Beatles both began their musical journey in what was called Skiffle bands-kind of an English take on Country and Folk music. There's a very rare B&W Youtube video of Jimmy playing on a British TV show and he was just a kid in his teenage years.  At that age, I don't think the promise of what he would later become was evident, but sorry, I digress. The indications from these posts are that for some players, a better pick design might help them overall in their playing. BTW, the cork stick on rings arrived, so I'll try them out during the next session. I think their principle is what I'm looking for but I still think there's room for improvement. We shall see...

[CROWB8]

10 minutes ago, John Shiflet said:

Jimmy Page of Zeppelin fame...that man was (is) a sonic wizard.

I would argue that point. Respectfully. In studio, no doubt. But I've seen em live a few times. Back in the early 70's. One of the sloppiest lead players out there. IMHO.

Edited April 9 by CROWB8

[merciful-evans]

5 hours ago, John Shiflet said:

Now that's an intriguing design. Looks like the edges are beveled too. I did see some picks with hex shaped holes in the middle as well as the aforementioned cork circles with a sticky side to stick on either side of a pick. I ordered some the other day and await delivery so I can try them out.

.  How does your custom pick play? I assume the thicker pick material is more pliable than the stiff commercial versions.  Thanks for sharing.

That pick has worn out and is now beyond reshaping. It did play nicely. It was acrylic so quite hard (I stopped using picks that flex). It was based on the V Pick Psycho which I used for many years and I now have about 8 usable ones left. I've stopped using those now too. They are 5.85mm (close to 1/4") thick.

My one had rounded bevels and more obtuse corners.

 

[merciful-evans]

3 hours ago, John Shiflet said:

Problem is, playing chords, I end up shaving my index fingernail to the quick. Exactly-my cuticles get banged up sometimes too.  

I get that too. Not so much now since I stopped gigging. 

Quote

The pick or whatever is used to engage the strings to make sounds, is critical for producing a certain sound you're seeking. Strike too hard or too softly and the sound isn't going to be what you want it to be.  The nuances of the sounds are what give a 3-D sonic depth to the melody. Guitar masters are adept in producing exactly the sounds they want to hear from their guitars. 

.The pick material makes a massive difference in timbre and volume. I've used various synthetic picks including ones of materials designed for purpose. I still have picks made from these

materials

[sparquelito]

2 hours ago, merciful-evans said:

I get that too. Not so much now since I stopped gigging. 

.The pick material makes a massive difference in timbre and volume. I've used various synthetic picks including ones of materials designed for purpose. I still have picks made from these

materials

I marvel at players who can use the thicker picks. 

In my younger days, I was a fan of the Fender Medium plectrum, and in the past 15 years or so, I have evolved to using just the thin ones. 
Fender Thin, Gibson Thin, and the Jim Dunlop textured 0.6 mm are my favorites, though any fairly thin one will do. 

In fact, I have come to realize that I own a LOT of picks, medium thru very thick, that I never use. 
Some were made from hotel card keys, using the Pick Punch. 

If anybody reading this thread wants them, I'll gladly mail them to you. 
At least one of them was sent to my by Carol Kaye. 

I'm keeping a small handful of thick plectrums in my music room, for visiting musicians, and my bass-playing brother. 
He gravitates toward the beefy ones. 

Just PM me if you are interested. 
🙂

 

 

[John Shiflet]

7 hours ago, CROWB8 said:

I would argue that point. Respectfully. In studio, no doubt. But I've seen em live a few times. Back in the early 70's. One of the sloppiest lead players out there. IMHO.

There's videos of then playing in the early 70's and the amplifiers weren't the only things amped up. Any super-group that can charter a 707 and drop acid while crossing the Atlantic so they can literally experience the sensation of flying isn't going to be at the top of their game when they're back on the ground. But that was the time when bands not only believed in the Sex. Drugs, and Rock & Roll lifestyles but lived them as well.  Can't be too harsh or single out Led Zep because almost all of the top bands of that era were living the same lifestyle. Glad that Page and Plant finally embraced maturity and put their illicit past behind them. Page now lives in a grand Victorian mansion and is said to be a historic preservationist and upstanding respected citizen so I applaud his lifestyle changes. Plant and Alison Krauss are out touring presently with an eclectic blend of music.. He even belts out a Zeppelin tune once in a while.

[John Shiflet]

6 hours ago, ghost_of_fl said:

Finger cots (used for handling paper):

Yes, I recognize those which clerks and document workers use-probably they provide better grip than Gorilla Snot which can (and in my case does) get transferred to the guitar strings. It also protects the skin from scrapes on the strings as an added benefit.

[John Shiflet]

5 hours ago, merciful-evans said:

That pick has worn out and is now beyond reshaping. It did play nicely. It was acrylic so quite hard (I stopped using picks that flex). It was based on the V Pick Psycho which I used for many years and I now have about 8 usable ones left. I've stopped using those now too. They are 5.85mm (close to 1/4") thick.

My one had rounded bevels and more obtuse corners.

 

Interesting... I think with that configuration if it had a softer more pliable middle then that might be the ideal pick design.

[John Shiflet]

2 hours ago, sparquelito said:

I marvel at players who can use the thicker picks. 

In my younger days, I was a fan of the Fender Medium plectrum, and in the past 15 years or so, I have evolved to using just the thin ones. 
Fender Thin, Gibson Thin, and the Jim Dunlop textured 0.6 mm are my favorites, though any fairly thin one will do. 

In fact, I have come to realize that I own a LOT of picks, medium thru very thick, that I never use. 
Some were made from hotel card keys, using the Pick Punch. 

If anybody reading this thread wants them, I'll gladly mail them to you. 
At least one of them was sent to my by Carol Kaye. 

I'm keeping a small handful of thick plectrums in my music room, for visiting musicians, and my bass-playing brother. 
He gravitates toward the beefy ones. 

Just PM me if you are interested. 
🙂

 

 

As you probably know, there are people out there who collect everything, matchbooks, old beer cans, and yes, guitar picks that can be displayed in shadow boxes. I mean, if you're a rabid fan of some artist or band and picks get tossed out to the crowd, that coveted  pick would have special meaning for you. I estimate I have maybe 50 of various sizes and configurations-but none  from famous musicians. (nor would I want any)

[sparquelito]

25 minutes ago, John Shiflet said:

As you probably know, there are people out there who collect everything, matchbooks, old beer cans, and yes, guitar picks that can be displayed in shadow boxes. I mean, if you're a rabid fan of some artist or band and picks get tossed out to the crowd, that coveted  pick would have special meaning for you. I estimate I have maybe 50 of various sizes and configurations-but none  from famous musicians. (nor would I want any)

I actually have one guitar pick that I got from Rick Derringer, at the side of the stage in a rock and roll bar in Frankfurt, Germany, in 1991. 

Edgar Winter with Rick Derringer was playing The Batschkapp in Frankfurt am Main, Germany, not long after I got home to Germany from the first Gulf War.

It was a memorable night, and Rick was a guitar hero to me. 
I can never let that pick go. 

🫠

[CROWB8]

1 hour ago, John Shiflet said:

There's videos of then playing in the early 70's and the amplifiers weren't the only things amped up. Any super-group that can charter a 707 and drop acid while crossing the Atlantic so they can literally experience the sensation of flying isn't going to be at the top of their game when they're back on the ground. But that was the time when bands not only believed in the Sex. Drugs, and Rock & Roll lifestyles but lived them as well.  Can't be too harsh or single out Led Zep because almost all of the top bands of that era were living the same lifestyle. Glad that Page and Plant finally embraced maturity and put their illicit past behind them. Page now lives in a grand Victorian mansion and is said to be a historic preservationist and upstanding respected citizen so I applaud his lifestyle changes. Plant and Alison Krauss are out touring presently with an eclectic blend of music.. He even belts out a Zeppelin tune once in a while.

Ah, sloppy prolly wasn't the best thing to call it. Back then, it was who could play the fastest. He took that trophy for sure. Just messy at times going at lightening speeds.

Physical Graffiti was prolly his best work, in that era, from a guit point of view. Self admitted, very heavy on guit. Bonham was on the bottle and Plant was back in the states nursing a broken leg. So it was left up to Jimmy and Jones to write and meet the deadline as I understand it.

[RBSinTo]

17 hours ago, merciful-evans said:

I get that too. Not so much now since I stopped gigging. 

.The pick material makes a massive difference in timbre and volume. I've used various synthetic picks including ones of materials designed for purpose. I still have picks made from these

materials

merciful-evans,

There is a long-standing rumour that you donated all of your old le niglo titanium picks to the Lockheed Skunkworks, and they were used to build the first SR-71 Blackbird. 

Care to comment?

RBSinTo

[merciful-evans]

4 hours ago, RBSinTo said:

merciful-evans,

There is a long-standing rumour that you donated all of your old le niglo titanium picks to the Lockheed Skunkworks, and they were used to build the first SR-71 Blackbird. 

Care to comment?

RBSinTo

How could I deny that? 

and careful what you ask for...

As it happens I worked in the Aircraft Industry for close on 40 years. The first 13 as a machinist (mills). Titanium can be a btich to cut and its expensive. 

And I last visited this SR-71 Blackbird at Duxford about 18 months ago.

 

[RBSinTo]

I have to admit that when I first read the title of this thread, I thought I was going to get advice about keeping my index fingers out of my nose.

Who knew?

RBSinTo