How much difference could a string change make?

[PrairieDog]

Advice/help for bonding with my new Hummingbird?

Some of you know I just got a used H’bird last Friday.  I’ve been noodling around with it, and I gotta say, while it sounds very “nice” and a bit different from the others, it doesn’t seem to have much “voice”  or presence for a bigger body mahogany.  It’s very articulate, but I really have to push it to get any deeper resonance out of finger picking.  Using a pick sounds like I’m bashing on a tin can, and stopped making that noise immediately.  

I fell into the Bird while looking for a boomy J-45. I figured the Bird being a square Sitka/Mahogany, should at least sound the same if not bigger.  Comparing the two in the store, the new Bird I tried won over the new J-45.  But the one I ended up having shipped was a used 2020.  Now I’m beginning to think I got lured down a dark alley again by pretty looks, and I’m having second thoughts. 

But I don’t want to jump the gun too quickly tossing it back.  I know everybody loves them for a reason.  Could there be something fixable going on? 

There are couple of things in play that I’m wondering if they could be contributing: 

The easiest, maybe, I haven’t gotten around to changing the strings yet.  I suspect the ones on it may be the originals.  They don’t really look played, just kinda oxidized.  The thing is, because of my nickel allergy, I have to use the expensive XS coated Ddarrio PBs.  I only have one pack left, and I don’t want to burn it if I’m going to end up returning it if the strings weren’t the real issue.  Has anyone noticed a lot more voice/depth come out with just new strings?  My others didn’t have this problem so I don’t know if this is a real fix or not.  

My other thought is while it’s a 2020, I think it may be a case queen and never got a chance to flex or  open up.  That would be a longer term fix (that I was hoping to avoid buying an aged guitar).  If so, I’d lose my opportunity to return it before I knew how it could end up sounding.  In this case, I’m inclined to just take it back, and wait for something with more immediate gratification.  

Any and all suggestions welcome.  I really want to love this guitar. 

 

 

 

Edited June 4 by PrairieDog

[rct]

I hardly think a set of strings, even the expensive ones, should stand between you and finding out if a guitar is for you or not.  And yes, I've found that strings can make a noticeable difference to me and my acoustics.

rct

[PrairieDog]

5 minutes ago, rct said:

I hardly think a set of strings, even the expensive ones, should stand between you and finding out if a guitar is for you or not.  And yes, I've found that strings can make a noticeable difference to me and my acoustics.

rct

yeah, I know, it seems cheap, but it irks me that I’d be handing GC 20 bucks of new strings when they couldn’t bother to put new ones on before shipping, ya know?  I’ve noticed a difference in my other acoustics, but I wouldn’t say they sound “boomier” more just a quality of richer tone.  This guitar just seems really caught in the mid-range/trebles to me.  There’s no bass thump.  

[Sgt. Pepper]

10 minutes ago, PrairieDog said:

yeah, I know, it seems cheap, but it irks me that I’d be handing GC 20 bucks of new strings when they couldn’t bother to put new ones on before shipping, ya know?  I’ve noticed a difference in my other acoustics, but I wouldn’t say they sound “boomier” more just a quality of richer tone.  This guitar just seems really caught in the mid-range/trebles to me.  There’s no bass thump.  

CG is a company. They exist to make a profit. Yes it may only be a matter of $10 - 20. But if they do it just for you, shouldn’t they do it for every guitar they sell? Not happening and it doesn’t happen.

[PrairieDog]

5 minutes ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

CG is a company. They exist to make a profit. Yes it may only be a matter of $10 - 20. But if they do it just for you, shouldn’t they do it for every guitar they sell? Not happening and it doesn’t happen.

Not what I asked 

[Sgt. Pepper]

3 minutes ago, PrairieDog said:

Not what I asked 

I was responding to your irked post.

I like D’addario XS’s, but what do I know?

[E-minor7]

Helo - I read you, , , , and this is a quite critical situation.

To be rough I'm very close to saying that you have encountered the Hummingbird - a square shouldered mahogany Gibson dread - and that it's not your model. I clearly recognize the issues you bring forward and would go as far as to state that those 2-3 facets are what one must learn to handle then go beyond if a real Bird-meeting shall happen. Could be wrong, but something tells me you would like a J-45 or even a Dove better. The chances the guitar will open to the degree you ask for are slim. It will be looser and give you a bit more of everything and it will still be a hyper articule'n'nice acoustic, but. . . 
 

Don't know if it's possible, but you should try 3-4-5 other contemporary Bozeman hog squares - and create your pattern from that.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               Else you may be gambling on too high wire. . 

[Sgt. Pepper]

I think you should also buy a cheaper guitar to help you bond with the HB. 

[PrairieDog]

7 minutes ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

I was responding to your irked post.

I like D’addario XS’s, but what do I know?

I was irked at giving the for profit company more profit.  

 

4 minutes ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

I think you should also buy a cheaper guitar to help you bond with the HB. 

Is your test over and have you gotten to take that bong rip yet?  You’re a one trick pony: you purposely misconstrue comments just to start arguments. Yawn.  When you have anything constructive to say, we can chat.  

[PrairieDog]

21 minutes ago, E-minor7 said:

Helo - I read you, , , , and this is a quite critical situation.

To be rough I'm very close to saying that you have encountered the Hummingbird - a square shouldered mahogany Gibson dread - and that it's not your model. I clearly recognize the issues you bring forward and would go as far as to state that those 2-3 facets are what one must learn to handle then go beyond if a real Bird-meeting shall happen. Could be wrong, but something tells me you would like a J-45 or even a Dove better. The chances the guitar will open to the degree you ask for are slim. It will be looser and give you a bit more of everything and it will still be a hyper articule'n'nice acoustic, but. . . 
 

Don't know if it's possible, but you should try 3-4-5 other contemporary Bozeman hog squares - and create your pattern from that.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               Else you may be gambling on too high wire. . 

You may well be right, I love my DIF because I wasn’t expecting anything other than what it was when I got it.  I think I was expecting something different than what the H’bird offers, just because it’s mahogany.  So, even if I reset my expectations, it does sound lovely for what it is, do I really need another “pretty sounding” guitar?   I have several dreads, maple, rosewood, and walnut, that fill that space right now.   I really was trying to fill in a thumpy bottom with a mahogany.  Thanks for the reality check.  

Edited June 4 by PrairieDog

[chasAK]

I think E-minor7 may be on to something. Though related the HB is not a J45.

Sgt. Pepper that is an interesting concept, I like it. There is much truth about training your ears.

Concerning changing strings they can make a huge difference. I landed on Sunbeams for my J45. Some years ago EuroAussie, who often uses a HD advised using some Pyramid round core strings. I did and found them to be very good strings for my J45. They had better note clarity and still had the tone I was wanted. They were twice as much as the Sunbeams so I, being a cheapy staid with the Sunbeam. I think they would fit a Bird well. Regardless, I would not try to make the Bird sound like a J45. From my limited experience the Birds are more articulate, at least when compared to my J45.

[PrairieDog]

11 minutes ago, chasAK said:

I think E-minor7 may be on to something. Though related the HB is not a J45.

Sgt. Pepper that is an interesting concept, I like it. There is much truth about training your ears.

Concerning changing strings they can make a huge difference. I landed on Sunbeams for my J45. Some years ago EuroAussie, who often uses a HD advised using some Pyramid round core strings. I did and found them to be very good strings for my J45. They had better note clarity and still had the tone I was wanted. They were twice as much as the Sunbeams so I, being a cheapy staid with the Sunbeam. I think they would fit a Bird well. Regardless, I would not try to make the Bird sound like a J45. From my limited experience the Birds are more articulate, at least when compared to my J45.

Thanks, good to know, and I think that articulateness might be what I responded with the first face off between the bird and the J-45 last week.  I did find the J-45 started to sound more muddled than the bird (and frankly probably more familiar, more like my DIF) which got my head turned around.  It didn’t help that our GC has a special trial room that sounds like you are inside the guitar.  Every guitar sound great in there.  So I probably was getting more low end just from the acoustics of the room.  

Oh, and Sarge, don’t let your head explode that Chas took you seriously.  He just seems to have missed the fireworks from the other day. Don’t worry, I understood you were trying  to land another swipe at me about learning on cheap guitars 😎

Edited June 4 by PrairieDog

[Buc McMaster]

1 hour ago, PrairieDog said:

.......I’m beginning to think I got lured down a dark alley again by pretty looks, and I’m having second thoughts.

Happens to all of us.  As has been said so many times here and elsewhere, guitars are individuals and can vary greatly from one example to the next.  Pretty looks can be deceiving......in guitars as well as people.

The character of an instrument's tone is mostly the particular wood it's made from and how those pieces are put together.  While strings can make audible differences, rarely are they significant enough to alter this essential character.  There are some real gems to be had, but there is the occasional rock.

[62burst]

Sorry to hear that you are having second thoughts, but that is nothing new. . . post-purchase disonance, and all of that. Maybe it might be good to look at what exactly is this Gibson "thump" that you are looking for. For one thing- step one: thump starts with mahogany. And the shorter scale length.  But in search of all of that, I've always been wary of what the square shoulder design brings to the table. Imhop, I've thought of it as a deep "kettle" sound of square-shouldered guitars. . . it doesn't have the projection of the slope shoulder '45. But with a nasty, higher setup, the dynamics change. And yes, string selection can help with that, too.  Hummingbirds are their own reason for being- I'd like to think that if you like yours enough, you can make it work.

ps- and you're right- a case queen needs to be played in. Make it your own.

Edited June 4 by 62burst

[PrairieDog]

3 minutes ago, 62burst said:

Sorry to hear that you are having second thoughts, but that is nothing new. . . post-purchase disonance, and all of that. Maybe it might be good to look at what exactly is this Gibson "thump" that you are looking for. For one thing- step one: thump starts with mahogany. And the shorter scale length.  But in search of all of that, I've always been wary of what the square shoulder design brings to the table. Imhop, I've thought of it as a deep "kettle" sound of square-shouldered guitars. . . it doesn't have the projection of the slope shoulder '45. But with a nasty, higher setup, the dynamics change. And yes, string selection can help with that, too.  Hummingbirds are their own reason for being- I'd like to think that if you like yours enough, you can make it work.

ps- and you're right- a case queen needs to be played in. Make it your own.

Aww, 62, you do have a way of making things complicated, chuckle.  I was all set to be persuaded this just wasn’t going to be the right guitar for “me.” And you come right back with the exact conversation/justification I’m having in my head. Should I just  try breaking it in and calling it another yet another voice of guitar?  I can always keep on searching for that elusive thumpy 45.  

My wife would like to have words with you 😆 

[62burst]

1 minute ago, PrairieDog said:

My wife would like to have words with you 😆 

[ruger9]

1 hour ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

I think you should also buy a cheaper guitar to help you bond with the HB. 

😂

['Scales]

2 hours ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

I think you should also buy a cheaper guitar to help you bond with the HB. 

 

[E-minor7]

2 hours ago, PrairieDog said:

 I really was trying to fill in a thumpy bottom with a mahogany.  Thanks for the reality check.  

Have you considered a vintage pre-1965 SJ or CW - they may come considerably closer to what you seek. 

I imagine the DIF is bigger sounding with much more 'room' - like my Firebird. If yes, the Bird is not a hog version of that kind of power. 

[E-minor7]

2 hours ago, chasAK said:

I think E-minor7 may be on to something. Though related the HB is not a J45.

Sgt. Pepper that is an interesting concept, I like it. There is much truth about training your ears.

Concerning changing strings they can make a huge difference. I landed on Sunbeams for my J45. Some years ago EuroAussie, who often uses a HD advised using some Pyramid round core strings. I did and found them to be very good strings for my J45. They had better note clarity and still had the tone I was wanted. They were twice as much as the Sunbeams so I, being a cheapy staid with the Sunbeam. I think they would fit a Bird well. Regardless, I would not try to make the Bird sound like a J45. From my limited experience the Birds are more articulate, at least when compared to my J45.

Tried Round Core Pyramids on my 1963 SJ and they fit the old ceramic saddled guitar like hand in glove. Been on since May 3rd. last year.                                                                                                                                                    Bought 3 sets more and the next will go on the re-necked 1966 Country Western - really look forward to that. 

[PrairieDog]

3 hours ago, 62burst said:

Soooo, which one is thumpiest?  😁 Would you mind running them down for me? Is the one on the right the original Heritage? Or the rosewood/rosewood burst?

[egoidealmusic]

Many here will disagree about strings, but I love the Sunbeams (tried them off of a rec here and have never looked back).  The bigger issue you hint at is the opening up.  Bang on it a bunch, but as I've said elsewhere, the speaker trick really does work--the more vibrations going through the top the more it will open up.  Give it two days like this and if you don't hear a difference it's possible you got a dud, but I'm guessing you're right that it sat in the case and never got to open up.

[PrairieDog]

2 hours ago, E-minor7 said:

Have you considered a vintage pre-1965 SJ or CW - they may come considerably closer to what you seek. 

I imagine the DIF is bigger sounding with much more 'room' - like my Firebird. If yes, the Bird is not a hog version of that kind of power. 

Well no I haven’t, I was running blindered on j-45s cause they seemed like the most economical if I could get one used and the couple of older ones I tried had the sound I was looking for.  

I should add I scored the ‘Bird for less than a new Standard J-45 on their Memorial day special, so I kinda thought it was a no brainer to jump on it.  

I realize now the mistake I made throwing back the 1995 J-45 for $1,695.00 I tried early on.  It was a cannon, but it had some serious repair work done on the top.  Not knowing better, I figured I’d wait for one in better shape.  As Homer says, “Doh.”

Since I appear to be starting over looking for thump, no matter what I decide about the Bird, I will expand my search and add them to the mix. thanks for the tip!

Edited June 4 by PrairieDog

[Larsongs]

I’ve found Strings make a big difference especially on Acoustic Guitars..   You might contact Danville Rob as he’s a Hummingbird Guy.. 

I’ve gone through quite a few different makes, sizes & Strings of different composition before I find Strings I most like on my Acoustic Guitars. Even different Gauges.. They all sound good. There are just some that sound better than others..

Also, you might check what Gibson puts on them from the factory.. I’d start there..

[PrairieDog]

24 minutes ago, Larsongs said:

I’ve found Strings make a big difference especially on Acoustic Guitars..   You might contact Danville Rob as he’s a Hummingbird Guy.. 

I’ve gone through quite a few different makes, sizes & Strings of different composition before I find Strings I most like on my Acoustic Guitars. Even different Gauges.. They all sound good. There are just some that sound better than others..

Also, you might check what Gibson puts on them from the factory.. I’d start there..

Nod, like I said though, I have to use coated ones, so not too many options. The XSs have been working great and sound great on everybody else.  And they don’t flake apart as fast as the elixers seemed to do.  I probably should have clarified I am asking if putting “fresh” strings on it might help.  I was wondering if it could just be old strings that was causing the lack of bass in the tone.  I know that doesn't really make much sense physics-wise, but grasping at straws… 

Edited June 4 by PrairieDog