Taylor 417e-R.. Why?

[Larsongs]

Would anyone pay $2999.00 for this Guitar? It's obviously a Copy of a Gibson J45 Rosewood? 

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/417eRTS--taylor-417e-r-14-fret-acoustic-electric-guitar-tobacco-sunburst?mrkgadid=3251364941&mrkgcl=28&mrkgen=mpla&mrkgbflag=0&mrkgcat=guitars&acctid=21700000001645388&dskeywordid=92700046997871005&lid=92700046997871005&ds_s_kwgid=58700005286965682&ds_s_inventory_feed_id=97700000007215323&ds_a_cid=405527921&ds_a_caid=9238738473&ds_a_agid=93424721003&ds_a_lid=pla-870466623829&dsproductgroupid=4581733673360502&product_id=417eRTS&prodctry=US&prodlang=en&channel=Online&storeid=&device=c&network=o&matchtype=e&adpos=largenumber&locationid=&creative=&targetid=pla-4581733673360502&campaignid=283268300&awsearchcpc=1&msclkid=e962e5664cab14a07a3b83fe4ef6f0ce&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=aaShopping - Core - Guitars&utm_term=4581733673360502&utm_content=Guitars - Acoustic Guitars&gclid=e962e5664cab14a07a3b83fe4ef6f0ce&gclsrc=3p.ds

 

Edited July 17 by Larsongs

[PrairieDog]

35 minutes ago, Larsongs said:

Would anyone pay $2999.00 for this Guitar? It's obviously a Copy of a Gibson J45 Rosewood? 

Well, it’s $700.00 less than the Rosewood J45.  I’ve noticed Taylor often tries to price point below Gibson, with similar appointments.  Granted it isn’t exact, but if you want spruce/rosewood tone-woods in a full-size dread….?  We have several Taylors, and I gotta say, the necks are pretty easy compared to some of our gibbys. And I found if you avoid the low end stuff, the sounds are actually full and rich.  not the bright ear shattery twang that I associated with  taylors. 

Edited July 17 by PrairieDog

[Sgt. Pepper]

Why would anyone spend 6k+ on a replica ‘59 LP? Cause it’s what someone wants. Same thing with the Taylor. 

Edited July 17 by Sgt. Pepper

[sparquelito]

I have only ever liked one Taylor. 

🙂

[RBSinTo]

On 7/17/2024 at 1:45 PM, Larsongs said:

Would anyone pay $2999.00 for this Guitar? It's obviously a Copy of a Gibson J45 Rosewood? 

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/417eRTS--taylor-417e-r-14-fret-acoustic-electric-guitar-tobacco-sunburst?mrkgadid=3251364941&mrkgcl=28&mrkgen=mpla&mrkgbflag=0&mrkgcat=guitars&acctid=21700000001645388&dskeywordid=92700046997871005&lid=92700046997871005&ds_s_kwgid=58700005286965682&ds_s_inventory_feed_id=97700000007215323&ds_a_cid=405527921&ds_a_caid=9238738473&ds_a_agid=93424721003&ds_a_lid=pla-870466623829&dsproductgroupid=4581733673360502&product_id=417eRTS&prodctry=US&prodlang=en&channel=Online&storeid=&device=c&network=o&matchtype=e&adpos=largenumber&locationid=&creative=&targetid=pla-4581733673360502&campaignid=283268300&awsearchcpc=1&msclkid=e962e5664cab14a07a3b83fe4ef6f0ce&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=aaShopping - Core - Guitars&utm_term=4581733673360502&utm_content=Guitars - Acoustic Guitars&gclid=e962e5664cab14a07a3b83fe4ef6f0ce&gclsrc=3p.ds

 

Larsongs,

With respect, I don't ever remember Gibson getting a patent on the slope-shoulder dreadnought with a spruce and rosewood body.

What Tayor has done is build their version of a guitar that has been produced by a number of other manufacturers, and I expect, would, if nothing else, appeal to folks who like their guitars and want one they made in this style.

RBSinTo

Edited July 21 by RBSinTo

[Larsongs]

21 minutes ago, RBSinTo said:

Larsongs,

With respect, I don't ever remember Gibson getting a patent on the slope-shoulder dreadnought with a spruce and rosewood body.

What Tayor has done is build their version of the version of a guitar that has been produced by a number of other manufacturers, and I expect, would, if nothing else, appeal to folks who like their guitars and want one they made in this style.

RBSinTo

My point was; For a little more I could get the Gibson J-45 Rosewood. Why would I want a Taylor knockoff.

I gotta be honest, I’ve only played one Taylor I liked. Many years ago. A Doyle Dykes model. Other than Taylor’s are pretty blah IMO.

Edited July 20 by Larsongs

[Sgt. Pepper]

1 hour ago, sparquelito said:

I have only ever liked one Taylor. 

🙂

Take your filthy paws off me you damn dirty ape.

Edited July 20 by Sgt. Pepper

[Sgt. Pepper]

21 minutes ago, Larsongs said:

My point was; For a little more I could get the Gibson J-45 Rosewood. Why would I want a Taylor knockoff.

I gotta be honest, I’ve only played one Taylor I liked. Many years ago. A Doyle Dykes model. Other than Taylor’s are pretty blah IMO.

The richer than rich Taylor Swift plays them, and can afford any and I mean any guitar on the planet, and if there good enough for a professional singer, and songwriter, then that should be enough. 

Edited July 20 by Sgt. Pepper

[RBSinTo]

18 minutes ago, Larsongs said:

My point was; For a little more I could get the Gibson J-45 Rosewood. Why would I want a Taylor knockoff.

I gotta be honest, I’ve only played one Taylor I liked. Many years ago. A Doyle Dykes model. Other than Taylor’s are pretty blah IMO.

Larsongs,

And my point is, not everyone considers the Taylor to be a "knockoff" of a Gibson, but both just the same model of the same guitar built by different companies.

I know two very fine guitar players, my teacher being one, who prefer their Taylor single cut-away acoustics to Gibson's or Martin's.

In the end, it is all a matter of personsl taste.

RBSinTo

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

13 minutes ago, RBSinTo said:

Larsongs,

And my point is, not everyone considers the Taylor to be a "knockoff" of a Gibson, but both just the same model of the same guitar built by different companies.

I know two very fine guitar players, my teacher being one, who prefer their Taylor single cut-away acoustics to Gibson's or Martin's.

In the end, it is all a matter of personsl taste.

RBSinTo

 

There are people in the world who don’t like the Gibson Thump. I’m one of them. But if your thing is tubby and flubby. They are the acoustics for you. 

Edited July 20 by Sgt. Pepper

[Larsongs]

I could care less what Taylor Swift, Joe Bonnamessa or whoever plays.

I've played just about every make & model of USA Guitar that I might possibly want. Acoustic or Electric. I've purchased quite a few that I love.

Quite honestly, INO, PRS & Taylor have no Soul.

Right! It is all about preference. I mostly prefer USA built Martin, Gibson, Guild & Collings Acoustic Guitars. 

[PrairieDog]

3 minutes ago, Larsongs said:

I could care less what Taylor Swift, Joe Bonnamessa or whoever plays.

I've played just about every make & model of USA Guitar that I might possibly want. Acoustic or Electric. I've purchased quite a few that I love.

Quite honestly, INO, PRS & Taylor have no Soul.

Right! It is all about preference. I mostly prefer USA built Martin, Gibson, Guild & Collings Acoustic Guitars. 

How about softening that a bit to “No soul to you”?… I manage to find a lot of soul in our US made Taylor’s.   You pay lip service to folks having different preferences but then turn around insinuating yours are the only legit ones.  For me, I have never yet met a Martin, Guild, or Collings I thought was worth taking home, but I don’t diss you for enjoying yours, and I don’t get chippy about the fact you made choices for yourself that I likely never will.  

[Larsongs]

5 hours ago, PrairieDog said:

How about softening that a bit to “No soul to you”?… I manage to find a lot of soul in our US made Taylor’s.   You pay lip service to folks having different preferences but then turn around insinuating yours are the only legit ones.  For me, I have never yet met a Martin, Guild, or Collings I thought was worth taking home, but I don’t diss you for enjoying yours, and I don’t get chippy about the fact you made choices for yourself that I likely never will.  

I had a typo, I meant IMO. I don’t care if someone likes Taylor, PRS, Eastman or whatever. If they enjoy them that’s great. It’s a free Country. I’m not insinuating anything other than what I like. Which, just like you or anyone else, is my right. I’m happy if you or anyone else like Taylor or whatever. It feels like you’re pushing back at me because I don’t. Using phrases like me giving lip service & getting chippy is insinuating & immature. In fact it makes your comments the exact thing of which you accuse me. You’re getting riled because not everyone likes what you like.

I didn’t mean to hurt yours or anyone else’s feelings. It’s just a Thread & an opinion. Nothing more.

Edited July 21 by Larsongs

[OrdinaryNimda]

On 7/17/2024 at 9:38 PM, Sgt. Pepper said:

Why would anyone spend 6k+ on a replica ‘59 LP? Cause it’s what someone wants. Same thing with the Taylor. 

Look what they have in stock at the German retailer THOMANN: 
https://www.thomann.de/intl/martin_guitars_om_20th_century_ltd.htm

[Sgt. Pepper]

1 hour ago, OrdinaryNimda said:

Look what they have in stock at the German retailer THOMANN: 
https://www.thomann.de/intl/martin_guitars_om_20th_century_ltd.htm

Says no longer available. I wouldn’t have wanted them anyway. My 000-18 and 000-28 off the rack standard models are more than enough guitars for me. And every ding, chip, nick, pick scrape - I did all by my self and it didn’t cost extra. The only Martin I pine for is an M-36. And even used ones now are stupid money.

 

Edited July 21 by Sgt. Pepper

[PrairieDog]

10 hours ago, Larsongs said:

I had a typo, I meant IMO. I don’t care if someone likes Taylor, PRS, Eastman or whatever. If they enjoy them that’s great. It’s a free Country. I’m not insinuating anything other than what I like. Which, just like you or anyone else, is my right. I’m happy if you or anyone else like Taylor or whatever. It feels like you’re pushing back at me because I don’t. Using phrases like me giving lip service & getting chippy is insinuating & immature. In fact it makes your comments the exact thing of which you accuse me. You’re getting riled because not everyone likes what you like.

I didn’t mean to hurt yours or anyone else’s feelings. It’s just a Thread & an opinion. Nothing more.

Ok, so I you understand, I did not know you made a typo right?  INO looked like just another brand in context, no idea what it was, but I assumed you were listing what you considered off brand guitars.   So all I saw at the time was yet another in a long line of swipes here by many folks over how much Taylor’s suck.

C’mon, you started the whole thread in a classic, “WHY WOULD ANYONE BUY THIS?”  There was nothing implying you were only stating your opinion, but rather your whole set of comments was aimed at sniping at folks who would be interested.  You even ignored my comment that it cost less, and that alone might be a good enough reason to buy one.  You just came back to RB and just said “spend more.”

Then you went on to say (not knowing you made a typo) that TAYLORS HAVE NO SOUL! So sorry if I responded rather diplomatically to such a direct slam.   Not sure where in any of this, until your reply to me claiming the typo, you were leaving any room for other tastes, or the possibilty that other people may feel differently about a different brand than what you prefer.  

I’m not the only one that called you out, and I thought I was rather diplomatic about it.  And you are just doubling down with a classic, tired, “I’m rubber and you’re glue” attack.  You could have just admitted the oops, and perhaps seen where your thread might be read as a pretty judgy….

So sorry, I did mean exactly what I said: I really, truly, do not care what guitars people play, I’m just glad they play them.   rock on.  

[Larsongs]

1 hour ago, PrairieDog said:

Ok, so I you understand, I did not know you made a typo right?  INO looked like just another brand in context, no idea what it was, but I assumed you were listing what you considered off brand guitars.   So all I saw at the time was yet another in a long line of swipes here by many folks over how much Taylor’s suck.

C’mon, you started the whole thread in a classic, “WHY WOULD ANYONE BUY THIS?”  There was nothing implying you were only stating your opinion, but rather your whole set of comments was aimed at sniping at folks who would be interested.  You even ignored my comment that it cost less, and that alone might be a good enough reason to buy one.  You just came back to RB and just said “spend more.”

Then you went on to say (not knowing you made a typo) that TAYLORS HAVE NO SOUL! So sorry if I responded rather diplomatically to such a direct slam.   Not sure where in any of this, until your reply to me claiming the typo, you were leaving any room for other tastes, or the possibilty that other people may feel differently about a different brand than what you prefer.  

I’m not the only one that called you out, and I thought I was rather diplomatic about it.  And you are just doubling down with a classic, tired, “I’m rubber and you’re glue” attack.  You could have just admitted the oops, and perhaps seen where your thread might be read as a pretty judgy….

So sorry, I did mean exactly what I said: I really, truly, do not care what guitars people play, I’m just glad they play them.   rock on.  

I guess you taking offense blinded you to the simple point as to why buy a Knockoff, which is what it is, when for about the same price you can have the real thing? Yes, in my opinion Taylor’s aren’t very soulful sounding instruments “to me”. The Gibson, in my opinion, is the better choice.

You calling me out? What? Really? Is this like a Turf War? LMAO! Many people state their opinions about things I don’t agree with. I don’t feel the need to go after them & call them out. I feel people have a right to their opinion & have a right to voice it. But, calling them out? Childish!

If you’re a Mod. If this Thread is so offensive, feel free to delete the entire Thread. 
 

Edited July 21 by Larsongs

[Sgt. Pepper]

4 hours ago, Larsongs said:

I guess you taking offense blinded you to the simple point as to why buy a Knockoff, which is what it is, when for about the same price you can have the real thing? Yes, in my opinion Taylor’s aren’t very soulful sounding instruments “to me”. The Gibson, in my opinion, is the better choice.

You calling me out? What? Really? Is this like a Turf War? LMAO! Many people state their opinions about things I don’t agree with. I don’t feel the need to go after them & call them out. I feel people have a right to their opinion & have a right to voice it. But, calling them out? Childish!

If you’re a Mod. If this Thread is so offensive, feel free to delete the entire Thread. 
 

I don’t take offense to this thread, but it’s the same as I stated, why would anyone pay $ for a pre beat up fake replica at the stupid prices Gibson charges? Cause it’s what they want to drop cash on, same way you see the Taylor that looks like a J-45. I’ll bet it doesn’t sound like one.

And your guitar isn’t a ‘59 unless it was built that year no matter how many rail road spikes it was hit with or what relicing god touched it. It may be to that years specs, but if it was made in 2023, well that’s what it is. 

Edited July 21 by Sgt. Pepper

[10PoundLester]

16 hours ago, Larsongs said:

I could care less what Taylor Swift, Joe Bonnamessa or whoever plays.

I've played just about every make & model of USA Guitar that I might possibly want. Acoustic or Electric. I've purchased quite a few that I love.

Quite honestly, INO, PRS & Taylor have no Soul.

Right! It is all about preference. I mostly prefer USA built Martin, Gibson, Guild & Collings Acoustic Guitars. 

You are absolutely correct sir. I was gonna post almost this same sentiment. Taylor and PRS are completely without soul. Every one is exactly the same as the next one in the model line. I've tried every one of each that I could find over the years, even owned a Taylor 12 string at one point. Not one of them ever did anything for me. You can try four Les Paul Standard 50's (or whatever) and find four different feels - none bad, just different. Try that with Taylor or PRS and you'll play four clones of each other with absolutely no differences at all. No nuances that make you choose one over the other. I never liked them and never will. But then again, who cares what I like right? If someone else likes them, that's fantastic! Hurray!

And I figured that you meant "IMO". 🙂

Edited July 21 by 10PoundLester
To add stuff

[Sgt. Pepper]

2 hours ago, 10PoundLester said:

You are absolutely correct sir. I was gonna post almost this same sentiment. Taylor and PRS are completely without soul. Every one is exactly the same as the next one in the model line. I've tried every one of each that I could find over the years, even owned a Taylor 12 string at one point. Not one of them ever did anything for me. You can try four Les Paul Standard 50's (or whatever) and find four different feels - none bad, just different. Try that with Taylor or PRS and you'll play four clones of each other with absolutely no differences at all. No nuances that make you choose one over the other. I never liked them and never will. But then again, who cares what I like right? If someone else likes them, that's fantastic! Hurray!

And I figured that you meant "IMO". 🙂

It’s the same for me. Every time I’m in a guitar store and a J-45 is there, I play it. I look at the tag and say my Martin’s sound better than that. I’m gonna end every post now in IMO so no one gets butt hurt. 

So there it is IMO

Edited July 21 by Sgt. Pepper

[RBSinTo]

Boys and girls,

I'm sure you all remember what Uncle Sidney used to say,

"That's why we have chocolate, and why we have vanilla."

RBSinTo

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

7 minutes ago, RBSinTo said:

Boys and girls,

I'm sure you all remember what Uncle Sidney used to say,

"That's why we have chocolate, and why we have vanilla."

RBSinTo

 

We have vanilla so we can put chocolate syrup on it to made it taste better. 

[RBSinTo]

12 minutes ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

We have vanilla so we can put chocolate syrup on it to made it taste better. 

And around and around we go.

RBSinTo

[OrdinaryNimda]

19 hours ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

Says no longer available. I wouldn’t have wanted them anyway. My 000-18 and 000-28 off the rack standard models are more than enough guitars for me. And every ding, chip, nick, pick scrape - I did all by my self and it didn’t cost extra. The only Martin I pine for is an M-36. And even used ones now are stupid money.

 

(Looks like non-european users are not being served this content.)
I looked it up on the Martin website, and it's the same guitar.
€33,000 in Europe. Nice, round number... but I bet the sound is heavenly!
Martin OM 20th Century Limited Acoustic Guitar | Martin Guitar

[fortyearspickn]

IMO,  IMO is implied in every post here.  

I try to only post my own opinions, shouldn't have to qualify each one with an "IMO" stamp.   I understand how religion and politics are verboten,  but individuals should be free to express their own opinions (the O in IMO), about anything else.    I think the  'if someone wants to pay their hard earned cash for it'  is also universally understood.   So it isn't a real justification for green J45s when Gibson makes them, anymore than sunburst ones when Taylor does - when someone asks  "WHY?"     And it is obvious that Taylor Swift, Joe Bo and others  (ex.  doctors and dentists as we're reminded regularly) have enough extra cash to buy whatever they want - so that falls to the wayside in terms of 'justification'.   Because we here are  the rest of the human race that has to be more discerning.

 So, most here who have spent decades playing different guitars and have found the ONE they love, or the HERD they love -  will have 'biases'.   Hard earned, like their cash.     We don't criticize on this forum - members who have no Gibson acoustics but criticize them regularly, while praising Martins.    Yet we criticize any member who disses other brands.  As Cool Hand Luke's  captain would say -" I think what we have here is a failure to communicate. "    

(Sarc. ON)   Maybe we just need more diversity in our thinking, inclusion in our membership drives and equity in our tolerance of other brands.  (Sarc. Off)