DaviSlva Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 How the guitar woods age? How does it affect the instrument, and which wood type ages the best? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 How the guitar woods age? How does it affect the instrument' date=' and which wood type ages the best?[/quote'] Here we go again! As far as a Les Paul is concerned, you mean? Some say it makes no difference. Some say it makes a lot of difference. No-one has ever proved either sentence to be truthful. Opinions will follow..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackie Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Petrified wood is the best........hard to work with but solid as rock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbonesullivan Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 well that depends, are you talking about a nearly 2 inch thick slab of mahogany, or a super thin spruce top on a classical guitar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 well that depends' date=' are you talking about a nearly 2 inch thick slab of mahogany, or a super thin spruce top on a classical guitar?[/quote'] As the question was asked in the LP section rather than the lounge I suspected the former; hence my "Les Paul ?" query. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaviSlva Posted January 8, 2010 Author Share Posted January 8, 2010 yes, in les pauls specially... of course everyone has their own opinion, soundwise... and sorry if that was a stupid question, its just something i wanted to know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deepblue Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 I have heard that over time and through usage the cells of the wood tighten or become more compact. I believe this to be true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 ... sorry if that was a stupid question' date=' its just something i wanted to know...[/quote'] No! Don't pick me up wrong. Absolutely no need to apologise at all. It's far from being a stupid question - quite the opposite in fact. It's just that the last time this thread was running it went to (if my memory serves me well) well over 20 pages and still no-one had the answer at the end! The number of opinions on this topic, both here on the Gibson site and all the others, is quite staggering. I have heard that over time and through usage the cells of the wood tighten or become more compact.I believe this to be true. Yes - and I wholeheartedly agree that it could (even although Gibson tries their hardset to dry the blanks out in their kilns first)' date=' deepblue; but how does that affect the [u']tone[/u] of a solid-bodied instrument? This is the question that no-one has ever been able to answer categorically! Does it make the tone better or worse! Who can say and how would they know? There has never been an empirical test to determine the truth! As we all know; when all the seminal and archetypal 'Les Paul' albums were being recorded by the likes of Mike Bloomfield, Clapton with John Mayall, Peter Green's 'English Rose' and so on in the late 1960's All the guitars were between seven and ten years old!!! How does that fact square with the 'Old wood is better' viewpoint? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freak show Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Since we're talking about an electric guitar here, I think the effects of aging are going to be minimal at most. The vast majority of the tone comes from the electronics and the amp. I'm not saying older wood can't sound different, but I personally doubt that the aging process is as noticeable as vintage guitar DEALERS wound have us believe... Now in the case of acoustic guitars, the age of the wood (and how much the guitar has been played) definitely plays a big part in the overall tone, and that's because the wood is the major factor in determining how an acoustic guitar sounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAS44 Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 My LP came 8 yrs old (unused) and I find it sounds different (better IMO) than the ones I've played that where brand new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freak show Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 My LP came 8 yrs old (unused) and I find it sounds different (better IMO) than the ones I've played that where brand new. That's not necessarily because your guitar is older. If you play several guitars of the same age and the same model, some are still going to sound better than others. I doubt anyone can say why that's the case, but it is. Try playing a few guitars which are older than yours, and you may find that yours still sounds better. I've never played a real Les Paul from the 50's, but supposedly some are just better than others, even though they're equally old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwness Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 My LP came 8 yrs old (unused) and I find it sounds different (better IMO) than the ones I've played that where brand new. Do you think the chambering is what makes the difference in sound DAS? My studio is 23 years old and I can't tell any difference from when it was new until today. It's the electronics and the amp. CW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAS44 Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Do you think the chambering is what makes the difference in sound DAS?My studio is 23 years old and I can't tell any difference from when it was new until today. It's the electronics and the amp. CW shoulda thought of that. You're probably right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Plains Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 How the guitar woods age? How does it affect the instrument' date=' and which wood type ages the best?[/quote']I think the finish on your Gibson Les Paul is just as, or more important than the wood type. A nitro finish allows the wood to breath and dry out over time. Poly, unless I am mistaken, does not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic LP Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Don't know much about it but I must say my '93 LP is getting better every year since I bought it in 1994. I guess it's about wood drying with time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 I've never played a real Les Paul from the 50's' date=' but supposedly some are just better than others, even though they're equally old. [/quote'] This has been shown to be the case time after time. There was a wonderful and lengthy article in ToneQuestReport where several members of staff had the opportunity to assess no fewer than six 1959 Standards. None of the staff were playing the instruments for the purpose of the comparison - so as to keep total objectivity. Of the six, one was unanimously the worst and, similarly, one was unanimously the favourite. In Beauty of the Burst there is a Japanese 'Burst collector, Ichiro Kato, who owns 3 1958 instruments whose serial numbers are 8_6727, 8_6728 and 8_6730 - that is to say they were all built at pretty much exactly the same time and possibly from the same slabs of mahogany and maple as each other. His view on what makes the difference is not how old the wood is but how much the instrument has been played. The ones which had been played more, and I quote; "...sing better. 8_6728 is not so played so I need to play on it more." Don't know much about it but I must say my '93 LP is getting better every year since I bought it in 1994. I guess it's about wood drying with time. Why? Why exactly should wood drying out make a solid-body guitar sound better? Acoustics are a different kettle of fish as it is largely the soundboard which is responsible for the tone and any changes to the soundboard over time will have a distinct change to the tone. But a solid-body? This is the question no-one ever answers. Hey, look on the bright side; perhaps it's just your own playing that's constantly improving! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic LP Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 Why? Why exactly should wood drying out make a solid-body guitar sound better? Acoustics are a different kettle of fish as it is largely the soundboard which is responsible for the tone and any changes to the soundboard over time will have a distinct change to the tone. But a solid-body? This is the question no-one ever answers. Hey' date=' look on the bright side; perhaps it's just your own playing that's constantly improving! [/quote'] I guess this could explain it, but still... You know, some companies, like Gibson, try to have their woods as dry as possible before turning them into guitars... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 You know' date=' some companies, like Gibson, try to have their woods as dry as possible before turning them into guitars... [/quote'] Yes; but that is wholly down to constructional requirements! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
80LPC Posted January 8, 2010 Share Posted January 8, 2010 I think the finish on your Gibson Les Paul is just as' date=' or more important than the wood type. A nitro finish allows the wood to breath and dry out over time. Poly, unless I am mistaken, does not.[/quote'] Sound is a subjective issue, but moisture passing through wood finishes is a well documented process. Rather than moisture moving in one direction only, it actually moves either way depending on the humidity of the local environment. Also, no finish can prevent this from happening - certainly not poly. The US navy carried out tests where decking was coated in a quarter inch layer of epoxy - it made no difference to the wood breathing. What does seem to happen is that different finishes affect the speed of moisture take-up / loss. Guitars and basses with oil rubbed and waxed finishes can absorb moisture at a faster rate, sometimes causing necks to warp. I've seen this with players who sweat profusely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shade Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 I think it is an interesting question... nevertheless, to be honest, i think Pippy is right that there has never been scientifically proven what really makes the sound and if the "aging" of the wood plays a recognizable role in the sound of an solidbody electric guitar... (Material and sound-characteristics) I read somewhere the sound is made by guitar (40%), amp (40%) and speaker (20%) (don`t know if thats true)... When looking at the guitar the pickups "pick up the swinging strings", because it affects the magnetic field of the pickup, which is turned into an electric signal ... How much influence has the vibration of the solid body and thus the vibration of the pickup itself in this equation? (lets forget about different pickup-types here) I read that "sustain", which many people think is a good thing (the longer the better) means that the strings can swing long before that dies... When the neck and the body absorbs the energy of the swinging strings, then the swinging will stop earlier, wouldn`t it? Seems counterproductive? The more the neck and body swings the less the strings will be able to swing? (lets forget about different types of strings here) On the other hand I know some musicians who will always tell you the often played instrument has the better sound... And always some people claim to recognize the characteristics of different woodtypes... My ears aren`t skilled or trained enough at the moment to claim that... But I would love to get some answers to the above questions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaviSlva Posted January 9, 2010 Author Share Posted January 9, 2010 I just heard of this (wood drying/wood aging = better tone) recently, I didnt know that, and I think its interesting. I dont have much experience with guitars, but I believe that the way the electric guitar sounds acoustically, affects the sound somehow when its through effects and amps... My ears arent skilled too, but who doesnt want good quality and clean guitar sounds? Shade, this website got good information on woods! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shade Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 I just heard of this (wood drying/wood aging = better tone) recently' date=' I didnt know that, and I think its interesting.[/quote'] Wood has a good quality for musical instruments when it is from a slow growing plant (some take several hundred years) with tight annual rings (high densitiy in the wood), when it has no or only few branches and a high velocity of sound. Tonewood should always be stored for years and be air-dried to reduce tension in the wood. (And Gibson refers to that in their product-description.) For acoustic instruments (for example guitars) one can say that the least expansive guitars are made from plywood and the more expensive better sounding ones are made of massive (solid) wood. Here are many existing reports that the guitar "develops" its sound... most preferably by playing the whole range of tonalities (positions) equally... but I don`t know if this has ever been a subject to scientific research... I dont have much experience with guitars, but I believe that the way the electric guitar sounds acoustically, affects the sound somehow when its through effects and amps... Probably... but to which extent is the question here ;-) How thick are back, sides and top of an acoustic guitar? 1 - 3 mm for the sides? About 22 mm for the top? I don`t really know... Compared to the thickness of the solid body LP or chambered mahogani back and maple top? My ears arent skilled too, but who doesnt want good quality and clean guitar sounds? I guess pretty much everybody... but on the other hand... Not all electric guitars are made of wood or have only that much body and neck to hold the strings and pickups.... Shade, this website got good information on woods! Yeah... I like their guidebooks... You should also look into wikipedia for "Tonewood"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
80LPC Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 Gibson use a vacuum kiln to reduce moisture in the wood. Check out this video from around 1.30. [YOUTUBE] [/YOUTUBE] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingarmadillo Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 I guess this could explain it' date=' but still... You know, some companies, like Gibson, try to have their woods as dry as possible before turning them into guitars... [/quote'] Actually, it's not "as dry as possible". The ideal moisture content, particularly for acoustics is 47%. If the wood is too wet it's dead sounding, too dry and there are structural problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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