NOW the anti-gunners are wanting guns...

[NeoConMan]

If the financial services industry in the USA had been properly regulated to begin with' date='

a large part of this would never have happened.

 

In other words, if common sense had prevailed over greed and arguments about political ideology and the

free market, the US economy would be in a better state and there would be less people really hurt. [/quote']

Don't EVEN get me started on this one!

 

I think we can all agree that the wheels came off, but a LACK of regulation isn't the simple answer.

The greatest economy the world has ever seen was NOT built because the gov't regulated into being.

 

Trust me, I'm a political junkie and I've been all over this stuff for 30 years - Right & Left are both dirty.

It's the scatterbrained, random, and yes, special-interest laden regulation that is to be held up for blame.

The Right wants to make money, the Left wants to give it all away to those who "need" it.

Absolutely mind-numbingly stupid social-engineering efforts....

[myspace.com/jessenoah]

NEO for PRES!

[Flight959]

Your guys a so lucky to be able to own guns still. It seems a million years ago but I used to shoot and had a great collection. 1911 Colt 'Stockbridge special' ' date=' S&W model 686 6 inch barrel 357 magnum, C.O.P 4 barreled 357mag Dillinger, G91 assault rifle and various shot guns. I had my own loading press and really enjoyed it. That was before we Brits were deemed too stupid to own guns and they were banned. Now the only ones over here with guns are the criminals. Are our streets safer? I don't think so.[/quote']

 

Blame Thomas Hamilton and Michael Ryan for the change in the law.... oh and Tony Blair

 

But your right, there are now more illegal firearms on UK streets than there ever was....

 

Regards

[NeoConMan]

HORRIBLE epidemic of meth (whites/latinos)

Around here' date=' even people that say they DON'T own/carry a gun.........DO......which confuses me no end.[/quote']

Same out here in the desert, but it's the wide-open border that fuels the problem.

Meth labs are rare here, it comes in from Mexico with everything else - including the PEOPLE who are smuggled.

As far as telling people I have a gun, that's rare for me too. None of their business.

 

 

 

if by some miracle an invader gets past our dogs........

You've hit upon the key thing here.

It's a multi-pronged approach that is most effective.

Dogs, subtle landscape lighting, fortified entryways, and secure alarms are all great ideas.

Anybody who doesn't value any of that first and now wants a gun, well, let's just say I try to help them see it.

 

At many home owners meetings over the years, I've given several little presentations.

My focus is cheap, easy and effective - they have no excuse but their own laziness for not doing it.

[zigzag]

The Right wants to make money' date=' the Left wants to give it all away to those who "need" it.

[/quote']

 

The right supports the elite making and controlling ALL the money. Capitolism doesn't work without a viable middle class and fiscally healthy consumers. Believe me, the left doesn't want to give it ALL away. If there wasn't rampant greed in this economy, nobody with a desire for political power would be talking about regulation.

 

W and Palin are the albatrosses for the right. Before Obama hands the next election to conservatives, somebody from the right is going to have to step up. Obama still has three years to "right the ship" in the eyes of the voters.

[DanvillRob]

 

W and Palin are the albatrosses for the right. Before Obama hands the next election to conservatives' date=' somebody from the right is going to have to step up. Obama still has three years to "right the ship" in the eyes of the voters.

[/quote']

 

Like Clinton and Carter are the stones around the left's neck?

 

The left ALWAYS portrays any Republican President/Vice President candidate as stupid, (i.e. Eisenhour, Ford, Reagan, H.W. Bush, Quale, Dole, W, McCain), or an evil crook, (i.e. Nixon, Rockerfeller, Cheney), so I wouldn't rule anyone out just yet.

[NeoConMan]

So there's a knock at my door.

I answer it and someone is standing on my doorstep pointing a handgun in my face.

I could have the ultimate armoury just feet from my back ' date=' But what's that going to change!

Nothing...Im still frozen with a gun being pointed at me.... I just dont see it.....

 

What's the point buying a firearm to protect youself after this has happened.

Its just closing the stable door after the horse has bolted..... It changes nothing..[/quote']

Oh, great, now the voice of LOGIC enters the conversation!

 

[cool]/:D/

 

I've given this exact same scenario to every gun newbie I've spoken with.

It all begins with awareness - that's the constant weak link in avoiding being a statistic.

 

I know one man who was carjacked in Texas.

He had a revolver in a pocket on the front of his seat - directly under his leg.

At a light, somebody walked up and stuck a gun in his ear and told him to get out - so he complied.

 

He stood there in the street and watched his pickup drive away.

Inside was his gun, keys to everything he owned, his wallet with all his cash, info and credit cards.

He was the last person I would have ever expected something like that to happen to.

[DanvillRob]

Oh' date=' great, now the voice of LOGIC enters the conversation!

 

[cool']/:D/

 

He stood there in the street and watched his pickup drive away.

Inside was his gun, keys to everything he owned, his wallet with all his cash, info and credit cards.

 

So pretty much just like getting a divorce!

[NeoConMan]

And Neo' date=' I'm sure that you have the statistics to prove me wrong, but I was reading in

last week's Time magazine (yes that liberal rag Mrs. Palin couldn't remember to list as magazines she reads)

that violent crime in the US is at its lowest since the '60s.[/quote']

1. Statistics lag. Be patient, it's coming - long after the mid-term elections.

 

2. Be careful to see what's included in their numbers - it won't be right. Thank God for the NRA.

 

3. Make sure you separate TOTAL crime stats from gun stats - a common diversionary tactic of the Left.

 

4. It IS a liberal rag, and of course they're painting a rosey picture now that their guy is in the Oval Office.

 

5. They don't want to even mention gun laws or crime right now because they're powerless to make changes.

[Gilliangirl]

I don't know where you guys live that you have so much crime to worry about? Just get one of those peepholes installed in the door

 

For the most part I'm anti-gun. I'm sure that comes as no surprise to anyone. But, that being said, if I move into the country and have an acreage (with horsies/dogs/puddytats/etc), which is my goal, I'll have a gun in the house for sure and will learn how to use it. And gawd help the person who trespasses on my land. Think: granny on Beverly Hillbillies! :D

[DanvillRob]

Think: granny on Beverly Hillbillies!

 

Somehow when I think of you, Granny never comes to mind!

[ksdaddy]

You're more like a brunette Elli Mae.

[MojoRedFoot]

NEO for PRES!

 

Ted Nugent for PRES!!

[zigzag]

Like Clinton and Carter are the stones around the left's neck?

 

Bill or Hillary?

 

I think most people have forgotten Carter, and most people remember the Clinton years as being pretty prosperous, not to mention having a budget surplus. W left a legacy of a terrorist attack, two wars (one invented), near economic collapse, invasion of civil liberties, worldwide distrust, and a host of other credits that don't immediately come to mind. If people had a choice to trade Clinton years for Bush years, I'm pretty confident what the choice would be (not that the same fate wouldn't have fallen on Clinton).

 

I want my leaders to be smarter than me, which is not that hard. I'm embarrassed by Palin, Quayle, and W. I kinda liked Ford and I think Reagan was pretty smart for an actor.

 

I actually want this nation to turn around and I really don't care who gets credit for it.

[Gilliangirl]

Somehow when I think of you' date=' Granny never comes to mind![/quote']

 

 

You're more like a brunette Elli Mae.

Thank you Bob and Scott. This makes me feel better as my 52 birthday approaches

[zigzag]

Neo. Hey buddy.

 

What milod termed the rural conservatives and the urban liberals seem to be the modern political dichotomy. Even though there are many more violent crimes committed in cities, I believe there is less insecurity, and the feeling of needing a gun for protection, among city dwellers. Plus, since there are many more people living in urban areas, the urban liberal seems to carry more political clout recently, as evidenced by the national elections. It'll be interesting to see how or if that changes in the next several years.

[DanvillRob]

Bill or Hillary?

 

I think most people have forgotten Carter' date=' and most people remember the Clinton years as being pretty prosperous, not to mention having a budget surplus. W left a legacy of a terrorist attack, two wars (one invented), near economic collapse, invasion of civil liberties, worldwide distrust, and a host of other credits that don't immediately come to mind. If people had a choice to trade Clinton years for Bush years, I'm pretty confident what the choice would be (not that the same fate wouldn't have fallen on Clinton).

 

I want my leaders to be smarter than me, which is not that hard. I'm embarrassed by Palin, Quayle, and W. I kinda liked Ford and I think Reagan was pretty smart for an actor.

 

I actually want this nation to turn around and I really don't care who gets credit for it.[/quote']

 

I'll admit W's legacy won't be his domestic policies...but he will be remembered for his unwavering focus on the war on terror. Not sure either war was "invented". Didn't the Democrat-controlled congress grant him unlimited power to wage the war in Iraq? Pretty sure there was a vote... pretty sure almost all the congress voted FOR it.

 

As for Clinton, you might only remember the good things about his presidency, (he DID have a Republican-controlled congress, by the way), but almost EVERY mention of Bill includes some reference to "doing" his interns, (my own joke is..... "While Monica thought she was only an intern, she was actually on the President's Staff!").

 

Ford was portrayed as a bumbling dolt...couldn't even walk and talk at the same time..... Quayle couldn't even spell "potato(e)" and of course, Reagan was suffering from Alzheimer from the them he was governor of California!!

 

They seem to forget about Obama thinking there were 57 states, forgetting that people in Wisconsin ain't all that thrilled with Michigan State...etc....etc....etc..... difference is, the "main stream media" won't play up O's stupid statements, (let's face it....EVERYONE makes stupid statements).

 

I'm embarrassed of O for trying to turn us into a European-style socialist country...and Biden...don't get me started!

[EVOL!]

NEO for PRES!

 

You've got something on your nose.

[zigzag]

I hear you Dan.

 

W Bush had a republican congress, too, and democrats voted on Iraq based around falsified intelligence. (I'm sure we don't have to re-visit all of that.) I am not in favor of socialist policies either, but I am in favor of regulation to rein in greed. And there has to be a way of reducing health care costs without a public option. I don't believe it should be up to business to provide insurance. I also believe that all US citizens should have insurance coverage.

 

I think the problem with unemployment is directly related to banks. I believe the problem with the economy is due to people not working and not producing. I believe we import more than we make domestically, and that has got to change. And our system of credit and fiscal responsibility in this country is ridicul0us. Unfortunately, just to live in this country, you have to have credit and use it.

 

As I said earlier, I think it is the responsibility of government to help those who cannot help themselves, but I also believe that people who receive assistance should have to prove that they can't survive without it.

 

I can't stand Biden.

[NeoConMan]

Cannot help themselves? Or WILL not help themselves?

And who draws the line?

 

Ooh!!!

Pick me!

PICK ME!!!

 

 

Ya know, I didn't start this thread to discuss politics.

It was more of an observation of the human condition.

 

The farthest stone I cast was commenting how the Liberal types suddenly fold their tent when reality appears.

I don't care who they voted for - it's their demonstrated thought processes and hollow "values" they espouse.

Facts, logic and reason suddenly become important when the bullsh!t and posturing stops.

 

Anyhow, I figured I would offer a rebuttal once again to some misguided notions.

Hopefully the thread survives it....

 

 

 

I think most people have forgotten Carter

Not me.

 

 

 

...remember the Clinton years as being pretty prosperous' date=' not to mention having a budget surplus. [/quote]

He got his *** handed to him at the 1994 mid-terms. Republicans took control of the house and senate.

Name ONE success of his from 1995 through 2000 that excludes them.

 

And look a little more closely to what they did to "balance" the budget - it was mostly a paper shuffle.

It was a helluva lot better than what we have now' date=' but the Dems were SCREAMING about the cuts in taxes.

 

Credit to Clinton?

I don't think so - it was much those maligned conservatives who made it happen.

(Took credit for reforming Welfare - get the fxck outta here. The Republicans were gonna drive that one up his ***.)

 

And don't forget his "Assault Weapons" bill - a pathetically myopic piece of legislation that was his first move.

Did nothing but make gun companies wealthier, and put good citizens in jail while invading civil liberties.

After it expired 5 years ago, what happened to crime? Kept on dropping....

 

 

 

"W left a legacy of a terrorist attack" (He did that?)

"two wars (one invented)" (Which one was invented?)

"near economic collapse" (driven by liberal legislation)

"invasion of civil liberties" (Cite ONE example where any of your personal liberties have been infringed.)

"worldwide distrust" (Yeah, when we cut & run, that makes EVERYBODY trust us.)

"and a host of other credits that don't immediately come to mind." Keep trying - you'll get one right...

[NeoConMan]

democrats voted on Iraq based around falsified intelligence.

So' date=' the Dems got fooled?

ALL of them?

 

Golly, to hear them tell it, Bush is an idiot and so are all his minions.

But the Liberal/Left/Democrat bunch - THEY'RE the smart ones?

 

Right.....

 

 

 

(I'm sure we don't have to re-visit all of that.)

Yes we do.

Until EVERY Democrat in the United States stops saying such stupid things.

 

 

What did Saddam use to gas and kill 20% of the Kurd population?

(Insert intelligent, sarcasm-free, truthful answer here)

[NeoConMan]

the urban liberal seems to carry more political clout recently

Maybe in 2008.

Recently they stayed home in droves' date=' handing states like Massa-two-sh!ts to a Republican.

 

 

 

 

It'll be interesting to see how or if that changes in the next several years.

Mid terms will illustrate what happens with both the liberals and the "independent" crowd.

 

So, maybe we should get back to the original idea behind the post and steer away from politics?

 

I mean, unless somebody can clearly demonstrate where I'm all wrong here...

 

[-(/

[zigzag]

Don't shoot, Neo!

 

You're very excitable.

 

I'm really not interested in re-hashing all of these political issues in a forum. And I didn't start this political banter (check post #26). There are many things we agree on, and obviously many things that we disagree on. Agreed?

[NeoConMan]

You're very excitable.

Wrong there too.

Not sure where you get this stuff.....

 

 

 

On the contrary' date= I'm pretty consistent no matter my environment.

Walk the walk, so to speak...

 

[DanvillRob]

I hear you Dan.

 

W Bush had a republican congress' date=' too, and democrats voted on Iraq based around falsified intelligence. (I'm sure we don't have to re-visit all of that.) I am not in favor of socialist policies either, but I am in favor of regulation to rein in greed. And there has to be a way of reducing health care costs without a public option. I don't believe it should be up to business to provide insurance. I also believe that all US citizens should have insurance coverage.

 

I think the problem with unemployment is directly related to banks. I believe the problem with the economy is due to people not working and not producing. I believe we import more than we make domestically, and that has got to change. And our system of credit and fiscal responsibility in this country is ridicul0us. Unfortunately, just to live in this country, you have to have credit and use it.

 

As I said earlier, I think it is the responsibility of government to help those who cannot help themselves, but I also believe that people who receive assistance should have to prove that they can't survive without it.

 

I can't stand Biden.[/quote']

 

I'm confident it wasn't "falsified intelligence" as much as "insufficient intelligence", which is the nature of intelligence. We all know the Congressional leaders got the same intelligence briefings as did the President...and.... if Iraq used "weapons of mass destructions" in the 1980's, which we know to be the case, then by definition, they DID have WMD's! (no matter WHAT the 'main stream media' says).

 

Greed is NOT bad....it's what gets me out of bed every morning, I don't want to live like those on welfare...so I work..... Greed is what you were 'guilty of' when you bought your guitars...you wanted what you wanted. Greed is what the Democrats are guilty of when they try to get reelected by giving away your tax dollars to people who chose not to work...greed is why industrial farmers developed ways to grow enough food so we don't have to..... it's why Henry Ford hired workers for $5/day...so they'd buy his cars.....

Is political greed better than monetary greed?

 

The reason health care is so high is because employers provide it...WHY is it done that way? Try the Tax Code..... Our politicians, (in their quest for greedy power), legislated a tax advantage for businesses to buy health care for their employees. Health care is not a right, any more than housing is a right... Having a car is not a right, but it's as important as health care if you want to work... what about day care? Without it, many cannot look for work! Don't you wonder how this nation made it for over 200 years without 'nationalized health care'? I don't recall seeing people dying on the streets lately... somehow it's getting done..... maybe it's those evil people on the "Religious Right" who are helping, eh?