25 1/2 scale

[crm]

please help me understand what advantage , if any, is the the 25 1/2 scale. I am having difficulty understanding what that means. thanks

[ksdaddy]

It's not so much an advantage, it's just a choice. As I understand it, there was a banjo player back in the late 20s who requested that Martin make a guitar with a slightly longer scale, which may or may not have been 25.5 specifically, but that's how the OM Martins came about.

 

The scale length will have a definite impact on the tone, all other things being equal. Again, it's all in the player's preference. I never paid much attention to the scale length on a steel string acoustic but I will state a preference for a longer scale on a classical. The notes seem more clear and defined and less like rubber bands.

 

A longer scale guitar will have greater string tension but I can't quote the physics involved and I'm not prepared to defend it, I only recall reading (way before the internet) that two strings of different lengths tuned to the same pitch, the longer one is under greater tension. Made sense to me and I believed it as soon as I went from a 30" scale bass to a 34" scale.

 

Not getting all poetic, but one person described a shorter scale guitar as having a voice like a group of family members singing together. Their voices blend smoothly and it all comes out as "one voice". A longer scale guitar is like a group of (equally talented) singers but you can pick each one out even when singing together. I 'get it', I just can't put it into words.

[KL]

I 'get it'' date=' I just can't put it into words.[/quote']

 

I think you did a pretty good job of putting it into words.

[DanvillRob]

It's not so much an advantage' date=' it's just a choice. As I understand it, there was a banjo player back in the late 20s who requested that Martin make a guitar with a slightly longer scale, which may or may not have been 25.5 specifically, but that's how the OM Martins came about.

 

The scale length will have a definite impact on the tone, all other things being equal. Again, it's all in the player's preference. I never paid much attention to the scale length on a steel string acoustic but I will state a preference for a longer scale on a classical. The notes seem more clear and defined and less like rubber bands.

 

A longer scale guitar will have greater string tension but I can't quote the physics involved and I'm not prepared to defend it, I only recall reading (way before the internet) that two strings of different lengths tuned to the same pitch, the longer one is under greater tension. Made sense to me and I believed it as soon as I went from a 30" scale bass to a 34" scale.

 

Not getting all poetic, but one person described a shorter scale guitar as having a voice like a group of family members singing together. Their voices blend smoothly and it all comes out as "one voice". A longer scale guitar is like a group of (equally talented) singers but you can pick each one out even when singing together. I 'get it', I just can't put it into words.[/quote']

 

Man.... that's pretty profound! All this time I thought the longer scale was for guys with long arms!

[Rambler]

Hey, CRM. Scale length is the distance from bridge to nut. Rule of thumb is the longer the scale, the higher the string tension. It effects tone by having

more note separation, which can be great for finger picking but may seem to some ears strident. Tighter bass (experienced as snap, twang), brighter trebles. It can make a big box boom, a small box cutting/piercing. Re mechanics, it tends to hold pitch better. Found on Martins/clones, J200, Adv. Jumbo.

 

24.75 scale has less separation, which may be experienced as a sweet choral effect --or mud. Softer bass (thump), sweeter top end. J45, 00018, L00.

[QuestionMark]

I don't know that its any advantage...its the distance from the nut to the saddle. On a 24.75" scale, the distance between the two is shorter. Since the temperance (the relative size of each fret) needs to be balanced to that distance to keep a guitar properly intoned, the frets are slightly smaller on a 24.75" scale. This translates to a slightly shorter neck length. To keep 12 frets accessible on a 14 fret neck guitar, this means the saddle/bridge needs to be place by the manufacturer further closer to where the neck joins the guitar than on a 15.75" instrument. So, its just a matter of personal playing preference to which scale a player prefers as an advantage. In my experience...its just a matter of which one a player gets used to...although switching from a 15.75" scale instrument to a 14.75" scale instrument usually makes the 14.75" feel a bit more comfortable. But, it really is which scale once gets used to playing in my personal experience as I find I like both scales although a 14.75" scales seems a bit easier to play (again in my opinion.)

 

There's probably some affect on tone that can be viewed as a factor and/or advantage from the perspectives of both scale lengths...but, I can't really comment on that as to me each instrument is generally unique anyhow.

 

Perhaps others can comment a bit more technically speaking than me.

 

QM aka Jazzman Jeff

[Murph]

I like the 24.75" on my J-45 RW because it's the same as my Les Paul, ES-339, SG, ect.

 

Makes life easier on my brain......

 

[jgwoods]

All else being the same a longer scale guitar will probably be louder. More string tension can drive the top better. It is one reason you see so many Martin guitars in Bluegrass bands where the more powerful sound can cut through the mix a little better.

On the other hand with everyone plugged in it makes no difference really.

The short scale Gibsons do make for easier reaches and bends. I like'em because they don't wear me out as fast.

[suburude63]

I LOVE THIS FORUM ! YOU LEARN SOMETHING NEW EVERY DAY !

[Lefty Guy]

As a recent convert to flatpicking/bluegrass I can honestly say that owning a short scale guitar (Gibson J-45) has really helped my development from being a totally useless beginner, who restricted himself to purely rhythm playing, to becoming a reasonably competent beginner who can even play some basic leads!

I also have a Martin HD-28, one of the classic bluegrass guitars, which does clearly make the requisite volume/sound at a group jam, but I found I just couldn't get up to speed on solos. As soon as I tried my J-45 instead....bingo....I made much faster progress thanks to the slightly narrower frets. That progress now allows me to also use the Martin too, although my comfort zone still favours the Gibson shorter scale.

[jt]

Perry Bechtel, the banjoist, approached Martin not to extend the scale length from it's then-standard 24.9 to 25.4 (CF Martin sticking with the metric measurements of his homeland), but to have Martin build a guitar with a banjoist-friendly 14 frets clear of the body. Martin was already building guitars with a 25.4 scale.

 

As others have pointed out, the longer scale = more string tension for a given gauge = greater volume.

[Modac]

Long scale is relative in it's importance only as to how much time one spends in the company of harmonica and banjo players. If you are not afflicted by that particular malady, then it is only an inconvenience, which leads to sore joints, tendons and muscles, in the worst case scenario---which in any case, it should be noted, is no worse having to spend time with banjos and harmonicas, and the attention sucking ham-hocks who play them.:)

 

On a more individual level, those who play with their bare fingers might find that because it is usually easier to "dig into" a short scale with one's bare picking fingers, they actually get more volume with a short scale. I do.

[62burst]

Very funny, Modac. Of course with exception of our wonderful moderator, who is rather fond of the fretted snare drum, some truth to all humor.

 

Jkinnama had some good info on his post. Aside from his making me go look up the word "strident" at dictionary.com, the only thing I wanted to question was the single-note separation bit. If we were to exaggerate the analogy, a/b'ing a

24.75" J-45 with a super-long 26++ inch scale length guitar, I think you'd find the notes would start to run together. It might sound lush for strumming, but for faster, more syncopated, rhythmic stuff the shorter J-45's "tight" sound keeps it

together better. I can hear it when I compare my J-45's against my Martin dreads. I've always felt like the higher end Martins had that choir of angels sound, & at this time, I'm not too into that sound. The shorter scale suits my playing style more. I like that dry, tight sound that doesn't compete with the human voice in the mix.

 

You wouldn't play with your reverb set to "11", now. Would you?

[ksdaddy]

You wouldn't play with your reverb set to "11"' date=' now. Would you?[biggrin']

 

Yes. Only because it won't go to "12".

 

 

Amazing they sounded just like the record. And they apparently were using wireless systems before they were available to the consumer.

[Rambler]

'Burst--interesting point, re the blend. With a long scale dread, the overtones give that "choir of angels" effect--but the voices in that choir tend to stand out (to borrow an analogy, its a choir of soloists trying to sing together). In a smaller box, like an OM the separation/soloist effect would be more distinct. The J45 doesnt get the overtones going, so its drier, but the chord sound tends to be sweeter. The voices blend. At least, that's how I hear it. Cheers, J.

 

ps my reverb's on 3, thanks. J

[Taylor Player]

I tend to like the longer scale as I play a fair amount of Drop D, DADGAD and Open G tuned songs. When dropping the strings on a short scale guitar, with some, but not all, I get an almost "flabby" feeling to them where a longer scale has the extra tension needed every time. I do like playing walking bass lines on a short scale guitar as the space between the frets is just a skootch closer than in a 25.5" scale.

 

I don't seem to have a problem going from one to another though which is nice when I grab my LG1 with it's short scale... (but also works great in dropped tunings for some reason)

 

****My reverb is also at 3..... but my amp's at 11!*******