When is an Epiphone worth more than. . .an Epiphone?

[Tukinator]

So, today alone there have been three different Epiphones listed in my area on Craigslist for seemingly outragous prices. So, I figured I'd get some input because it got me thinking.

 

All three listings mention the typical, 'I purchased this new for $490 and the case was $90. Then, I put another $250 into it with a pickup upgrade and the setup was another $70. That's a total of $1000 but I'm only asking $700 total so I'm losing $300.'

 

While the argument seems logical, I just don't see anyone paying $700 for a Les Paul Standard.

 

Also, these are not vintage or anything. These are all guitars you can walk into just about any Guitar Center right now and buy off the shelf.

 

So, what are you thoughts? What's the most you would pay for a year-old used and even fairly upgraded Epiphone, and why?

[matiac]

Actually an Epiphones worth LESS than an Epiphone, even after all the big buck mods! The best offer I got on my blue one was 150.00 from an authorized Epiphone dealer, at which point I said I had probably that much in it for pickups, but he wouldn't budge. I paid 499.00 for it new in 2004, hell, when I had to sell my SG, I didn't get nearly what it was worth from another authorized dealer, so whoever says they hold their value, unless a collectors buyin' it, yer gonna take a hell of a beating having to re-sell it, no matter what it is. At least that's my experience...

[TWANG]

I think it's up to the seller to change the market if possible.

That is, there's no reason for a guitar, assuming very nice condition with upgrades, should drop much below orig. price, assuming

it was bought at reasonable/typical street price.

 

used lp100s sell for 200.00 all the the time.

at 269.00 new, that's not so bad at all.

but you have to expect to discount your used upgrades..

and then you have to find a niche..that is, buyers who are in agreement with you about which upgrade you chose.

P90s in a les paul, for instance, is certainly not the MAIN choice of most.. so that probably means running an ebay add longer, or settling for less.

 

nobody is going to pay for your setup but you.

for one thing, too many people believe an epi is nice out of the box, and too many would quibble over that cost, and too many would try it themselves instead.

 

So Matiac is right.. with some reservations allowed for what was added and what that cost, on top of which model.

 

250.00 for pickups? come on.. even duncans fralins et al don't run that high.

case also is used.. you have to mark it down.

 

dealers will not give you a deal.

they are dealing for them.

I just talked to a dealer who said. never make a cash offer..

and to me that means two things.. if they don't know what it's worth, don't tell them, or use a list price to reduce the trade in value.

 

I've got a studio.. sells for 299.00

bone nut,

fret work,

new knobs,

new pups,

new caps,

5 ply guard,

 

I wont get anything for the fretwork..

I wont get anything for the caps..

I wont get anything for the knobs..

very little for the guard..

and since I used p90s.. I expect it would be harder to sell. esp. ebay where nobody can hear that monster tone.

that leaves a few bucks at best for the nut..about 2/3 street price on pups..

plus depreciation..

 

I'm telling you, people often don't value work.. they figure, I could get a new one and send it back until I get a right one, or go shopping locally and get a right one from the start..

that's largely bogus unless you're talking about sloppy work. but it's an idea in peoples heads which is just as real as anything.

 

In short, my view is it's better to sell it yourself.. than to trade, almost everytime.

and think ahead when you mod if resale is important to you.

 

TWANG

[Nickblues1]

Some one on CL near me was selling a 1999 Epi LP standard for 495.00 - no case. Epi LP100 for 295.00 - no year stated "Usual scrapes and dents" Oh, Boy wait till he see what GC sells new for. He needs the money for rent.

[Tukinator]

Good points and feedback you guys. It all makese sense to me, I just can't help but wonder what drives some of these people, (outside of paying their mortgages).

 

That SG 400, for example, is listed on eBay with a BIN of $800. There are 3-4 others exactly like it listed above and below it for $379 BIN.

 

Are they actually wondering why it's not selling?

[Funkwire]

So' date=' what are you thoughts? What's the most you would pay for a year-old used and even fairly upgraded Epiphone, and why?[/quote']

 

The Gold Top I bought off e-Bay last week came with upgraded pups (Fralin P-90s) and an SKB hardshell case.

 

It was made in December 2005 and is in near mint condition.

 

I spent considerably less than the street price for a brand-new Gold Top, stock, no case ($499).

 

So...I'm happy. The seller seemed happy too...he just quote unquote upgraded to a Gibson LP and wanted to unload his Epi. Again, I was happy to comply!

 

In short' date=' my view is it's better to sell it yourself.. than to trade, almost everytime.

and think ahead when you mod if resale is important to you.[/quote']

 

+1,000, times a googol!

 

Count on getting 40 to 50 percent of the value if you trade it in, if you're lucky.

 

And modding is a double edged sword. If you're doing it to get an instrument closer to what you want and need, all power to you. If you're modding a guitar thinking you're going to turn a huge profit from it, in most cases, you will be severely disappointed.

[jcwillow777]

To be honest I don't even bother to look at Craigslist anymore. They are asking outrageous prices. Most of the time it's the same on Ebay. I don't know if people are really that stupid or what. A lot of the time the prices are driven up fairly close to what new would cost. I'm sure there are a few good deals to be had, but they sure seem to be few and far between.

[Ron G]

The mentality is just like the existing house market. Some are convinced their house is worth more than the market says; they will either have the house on sale for a very long time or lower the price. Others think the improvements they made will return 100% on their investment; they, too will get realistic fast if they want to sell. And of course, there are those who paid too much in the first place. Alas, the bottom line for buying used guitars is the same as buying a used house - MAKE A REASONABLE OFFER. You may be pleasantly surprised.

[Lerxst1281733995]

I don't care what kind of mods someone does to their guitar, I'm not paying for 'em... Just because the seller put Duncans in an Epiphone doesn't mean you can add the cost of the pups to the value of the guitar... At MOST, I might pay original retail IF the guitar was in immaculate condition and the upgrades were something that I wanted.. But not a penny more..

 

Inversely, dealers will never come close to giving you what your guitar is really worth... They want to turn it around with the widest profit margin possible.. You might do slightly better in a trade situation, but not as much as selling it yourself...

[sdgails]

The only modern epi guitars that go for a premium are the rivieras ,supernovas , bigsby loaded casinos, and some firebirds. Other than those, i cant think of any. Les pauls and sg's are a dime a dozen

[antwhi2001]

The Epi shown in my pic was bought on the Bay for £160 or £180, I forget which. It's a Standard Samick 2001 and it was stock when I bought it; no faults but badly in need of a set-up.

 

I completely rewired it, replaced all the hardware with Gibson or equivalent parts, fitted a middle pup, and replaced neck and bridge with Burstbuckers. All the parts were either things I had lying around from other projects, or bought cheaply, and I paid out about £160 in all. I wasn't doing it with a view to selling it; I just like improving guitars.

 

Here in the UK you can buy a new Standard for about £285. I put mine on the Bay recently and to my surprise it sold same day for £385. The new owner told me he's absolutely delighted with it.

 

Of course, I already regret selling it, but it was to fund another acquisition.

[Syrma]

Yeah, as said, the UK market changes constantly. About 3 weeks ago on Ebay, there was little that sold under £180, now there are loads.

[Dave]

I wouldn't pay as much as it was worth sight unseen (pictures can lie).

 

I agree that a used Epi is usually worth less than retail. Unless two people are crazy to get it and outbid each other.

 

Pickups are only an important factor to knowledgeable customers. If they wouldn't have known the difference without being told, they probably won't pay more for the fact that you spent money to acquire them.

 

I wouldn't pay more for a Gibson than I could buy a new one for unless someone famous owned it. And then I would buy it for resale at a fair price. It just never seemed worth the investment to me to be able to say (insert name) played this guitar on the 1989 world tour.

 

Think about it. A used car isn't worth more to most people because it has $1500 worth of tires on it. Some people might give you a little more for the car if it has a $2000 stereo installed, provided it was the custom stereo they always wanted.

[matiac]

See, that's the thing with my situation, I'd never sell the guitar, it was more a curiosity question on my part, but when he said 150.00, I had to kind of laugh at the guy, and he had this incredulous look on his face like he was cutting me a deal or something, Christ just the pickups and the bridge are probably a healthy 1/3 of the guitars price new, but I think ANY guitar, no matter what brand, unless it's a hugely collectible piece, aint gonna get you nearly what you paid for it, and the thought of "breaking even" should be put out of anyone's mind who thinks that's gonna happen...cuz it aint.

[Bangbang]

Actually an Epiphones worth LESS than an Epiphone' date=' even after all the big buck mods! The best offer I got on my blue one was 150.00 from an authorized Epiphone dealer, at which point I said I had probably that much in it for pickups, but he wouldn't budge. I paid 499.00 for it new in 2004, hell, when I had to sell my SG, I didn't get nearly what it was worth from another authorized dealer, so whoever says they hold their value, unless a collectors buyin' it, yer gonna take a hell of a beating having to re-sell it, no matter what it is. At least that's my experience...[/quote']

 

Its the same way with guns.....I collect them and once had a Tommy gun.chrck out the price........when I traded it at a dealer (dummy) I got 550 for it to get a Colt 1911. I kick myself in the *** for doin it. I am soon putting 300 bucks into my Fender Standard (MIM) knowing I will never get the money out of it but I will have a very good axe so I don't care about the money. I also plan on modding my G400 and my new Fender Fatty.

 

http://www.auto-ordnance.com/new_ta5.html

[ricach]

Well, as is always the case, the guitar (or anything) is worth only what somebody is willing to pay for it.

[lostindesert]

Keep the original parts and put them back in if you're selling your guitar.

I lost a lot of money selling upgraded guitars (pickups, hardware, setup), never got the money back i invested

in them, sometimes swapping guitars is a better idea.

 

Peter

[antwhi2001]

Cars, guitars, or guns, a dealer is only going to give you what he thinks the market price is, minus the profit he hopes to make on re-sale, and minus the tax he'll have to pay.

 

It only changes if they're taking it part-ex against a high ticket / high profit item that they can lose the cost on.

[ne_buddy]

My view is that you buy an (overseas production model) Epi to play it to death, not to re-sell.

 

They're great guitars (if you select the right model for your needs), but they're not great investments.

 

I would never have bought my Riviera with the intention of trading it in or selling it to buy a Gibby 335.

[V-Type]

Honestly the price of almost everything is going up. The US dollar just isnt buying what it used to so prices go up.

GC and MF sell the My Epiphone LP Custom for $599 with no case. I put $200 into pickups,nut and creme knobs.

But to realistically think I can get that price used is ridiculous.

I generally feel half of the new price is fair in most cases. But certain capitalists think otherwise.

Bottom line if its over priced it wont sell.

[RotcanX]

Actually you CAN get some of your investment back, but you have to find a buyer who is able to appreciate the 'value added' component. These guys are few and far between (face it... most of us are looking for a bargoon because we can't afford anything better) but they do exist; people that want the deluxe, modded, aftermarket pickups and proper setup and quality parts etc. and are willing to pay for it. However it may take a few months to find such an individual. If you need to sell a guitar quick because you're hard up for $$$, you're better to keep the fancy parts. I've done this at least three times and in each case the buyers are very happy to get a guitar that is 'better than stock' without going through all the incremental steps... not everyone gets a kick out of working on guitars... and in every case they ended up saving compared to what it would cost them to have it done themselves. Obviously you have to watch out with this as even though there's a lot of room to manoeuvre there's always a ceiling where you start to hit the value of better-branded guitars.

[alcorn429]

I wouldn't pay full price for a used item. As far as up grades to the item. I think you have to take into consideration what you've done. If you've put on Seymour Duncan Alnico Pro IIs and changed a bunch of stuff to made the guitar like Slash's then you could probably put alittle extra on for the pick ups but there also you're gonna lose whatever money you've put in on the work. Its the nature of things to depreciate over time. Your not gonna give $45,000 for a Mercedes Benz that was worth that much in 1988.

[TWANG]

I don't care what kind of mods someone does to their guitar' date=' I'm not paying for 'em... Just because the seller put Duncans in an Epiphone doesn't mean you can add the cost of the pups to the [i']value[/i] of the guitar... At MOST, I might pay original retail IF the guitar was in immaculate condition and the upgrades were something that I wanted.. But not a penny more..

 

Inversely, dealers will never come close to giving you what your guitar is really worth... They want to turn it around with the widest profit margin possible.. You might do slightly better in a trade situation, but not as much as selling it yourself...

 

 

I don't really understand you.

 

I took out the six cylinder engine and put in a 327long block..

but you still want to pay for the six?

 

 

dealers never trade well. pawn shops used to do much better. but over the last ten or fifteen years, they seem to have stopped.

 

TWANG

[Lerxst1281733995]

 

I don't really understand you.

 

I took out the six cylinder engine and put in a 327long block..

but you still want to pay for the six?

 

Wha?? First of all' date=' that engine analogy doesn't work.. Let me put it this way.. A used guitar is a used guitar... I'm not going to pay $500 for a $300 guitar because it houses pickups that [i']somebody else[/i] wanted to put in it.. A person mods a guitar to their specifications and desires, not mine.. A G400 with a set of Dirty Fingers in it has no value to me if I have no use for those pups.. Now if the guitar has pickups that I actually want, then I might consider paying a little more, but not more than original retail...

 

As a seller, I think I'd be doing well to get $300 for a used guitar with upgraded pickups instead of the $225 I would have gotten for it with stock pups.. In most cases, I'd be making back half my money on the pups... Or as Spud said, maybe someone who actually wants the Dirty Fingers and has no desire to perform the mods themself, would perceive more value in the guitar, and it would be worth more to them.. But that hypothetical "someone" would not be me...

 

I think it was Gary who said it best.. A $300 guitar with $200 worth of pickups, is still a $300 guitar..

[Bakz]

My view is that you buy an (overseas production model) Epi to play it to death' date=' not to re-sell.

 

They're great guitars (if you select the right model for your needs), but they're not great investments.

 

I would never have bought my Riviera with the intention of trading it in or selling it to buy a Gibby 335.[/quote']

 

I'm afraid I'll have to agree. But, then .... there are these:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=120227504233&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=002

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=150223416083&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=005

 

Why they brought over double the rp? But the "One Loves" have been drawing that consistently.