JEPI Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 A friend calls and needs $$... Knowing a loan would never be paid back, I asked about his '59 RI Gibby that he bought in '88... Long story short.....Its in my collection now.. I've never seen these pups before...The photo is the neck pup. I will be taking the pickguard off................J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricochet Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 A friend calls and needs $$... Knowing a loan would never be paid back' date=' I asked about his '59 RI Gibby that he bought in '88... Long story short.....Its in my collection now..I've never seen these pups before...The photo is the neck pup. I will be taking the pickguard off................J [/quote'] Wow, nice guitar! What does she sound like? That is the Gibson Original HB-R designed by Bill Lawrence only available on Gibsons between 88 and 89(I believe). If it's a matching set the Bridge PU will say HB-L(Lead). They have a higher output then the standard PAF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JEPI Posted September 8, 2008 Author Share Posted September 8, 2008 Wow' date=' nice guitar! What does she sound like? That is the Gibson Original HB-R designed by Bill Lawrence only available on Gibsons between 88 and 89. If it's a matching set the Bridge PU will say HB-L(Lead). They have a higher output then the standard PAF.[/quote'] Thanks, Ric..... This is an '88 so that makes since. I didn't know about the Bill Lawrence pups and yes it is a matching set.... I first played this guitar 15 years ago and a few times since then....It sounds like what it is and as I've posted many times before about Gibbys, it can get real 'muddy' so I have to adjust my amp super bright to get the tone that I prefer... It feels real nice though with a neck right in the middle of thick and thin. I'm glad, of course, that I have it. But honestly, if this guy wasn't in such dire straights, I wouldn't have bought it. I still love my Epi and prefer it over all the Gibbys I've had anyday..............J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memphs1978 Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 now that my friend.... is sexy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
layboomo Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 Very nice....those are actually some pretty rare pickups to boot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JEPI Posted September 8, 2008 Author Share Posted September 8, 2008 Very nice....those are actually some pretty rare pickups to boot! Thanks Memphis and Layboomo.......I was searching the Bill Lawrence site to find info on the pups and can't find any refernce to them except that he, "Willi Lorenz Stich" came back from Germany and OBL then joined Gibson in '87 and left in '89. I thought he was known for the "blade" type pups.................J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AS90 Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 The pickups are usually referred to as circuit backs. Looks like a Standard to me, what is the serial number? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JEPI Posted September 8, 2008 Author Share Posted September 8, 2008 The pickups are usually referred to as circuit backs. Looks like a Standard to me' date=' what is the serial number?[/quote'] Circuit back is a fitting name for these... Just talked to a Gibson Rep who said that he couldn't find any reference that Bill Lawrence pups were used on this RI and that he shows Classic '57's were the standard then. And yes, it is a Standard. I couldn't find any info on the S/N at guitar dater, but the Gibby Rep, says that it was originally sold in August of '88 and that's when my friend bought it, for $2200 @ Guitar Center. The S/N is 8 0401 and is listed as a "Heritage Darkburst" w/nickel hardware.................J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svet Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 Wow Jepi, nice score! She looks a lot like my R9. Congrats! <----------------------my R9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AS90 Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 Circuit back is a fitting name for these... Just talked to a Gibson Rep who said that he couldn't find any reference that Bill Lawrence pups were used on this RI and that he shows Classic '57's were the standard then. And yes' date=' it is a Standard. I couldn't find any info on the S/N at guitar dater, but the Gibby Rep, says that it was originally sold in August of '88 and that's when my friend bought it, for $2200 @ Guitar Center. The S/N is 8 0401 and is listed as a "Heritage Darkburst" w/nickel hardware.................J[/quote'] Is the serial inked or stamped? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JEPI Posted September 8, 2008 Author Share Posted September 8, 2008 Is the serial inked or stamped? Oh, I see what you mean. You're saying its a '88 Standard and not an R9. Very interesting.....Per the only info I could find regarding Gibson reissues, the S/N is supposed to be inked. This one, 8 0401 is ink stamped.... As I said earlier, the Gibby Rep that I spoke with said that RI's should have '57's in 'em, but confirmed that the S/N showed being a reissue..........Would a '88 Standard cost $2200 in '88?? Probably I dunno................J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JEPI Posted September 8, 2008 Author Share Posted September 8, 2008 Is the serial inked or stamped? Oh, I see what you mean. You're saying its a '88 Standard and not an R9. Very interesting.....Per the only info I could find regarding Gibson reissues, the S/N is supposed to be inked. This one, 8 0401 is ink stamped.... As I said earlier, the Gibby Rep that I spoke with said that RI's should have '57's in 'em, but confirmed that the S/N showed being a reissue..........Would a '88 Standard cost $2200 in '88?? Probably I dunno................J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EpiEric Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 That's a reissue. There's a good article on the Les Paul Forum about these here: http://www.lespaulforum.com/finalframes/frameset.htm You'll see a very similar 88 there with the Bill Lawrence circuit board pickups. Only a reissue would be $2200 in 1988. I bought a new Custom for $900 in 1990 and my most recent Standard for $1400 in 1997. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JEPI Posted September 8, 2008 Author Share Posted September 8, 2008 That's a reissue. There's a good article on the Les Paul Forum about these here: http://www.lespaulforum.com/finalframes/frameset.htm You'll see a very similar 88 there with the Bill Lawrence circuit board pickups. Only a reissue would be $2200 in 1988. I bought a new Custom for $900 in 1990 and my most recent Standard for $1400 in 1997. Thanks Eric.....Good link and info regarding the R9 will Bill Lawrence pups. Also, it says that they were shipped without the pickguard installed but was included in the case. He did have it installed after the purchase...................J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
layboomo Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 That's a reissue. There's a good article on the Les Paul Forum about these here: http://www.lespaulforum.com/finalframes/frameset.htm You'll see a very similar 88 there with the Bill Lawrence circuit board pickups. Only a reissue would be $2200 in 1988. I bought a new Custom for $900 in 1990 and my most recent Standard for $1400 in 1997. Just a question didn't the RI's always use better caps than cheapie ceramic discs? For $2200 I would sure hope so! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 Sweet! Enjoy it, Jepi! CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JEPI Posted September 8, 2008 Author Share Posted September 8, 2008 Just a question didn't the RI's always use better caps than cheapie ceramic discs? For $2200 I would sure hope so! Another good point...Also, the pots (what's that little brass insert in the middle?), won't come up in the pot search at guitar dater. R137882 44O-71-079....I've emailed pictures to Gibson and hopefully they'll get back to me in a reasonable amount of time regarding the pup issue. The bridge pup reads HB-L on it. Svet, or anyone else, what caps do you have in your reissues?................J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EpiEric Posted September 8, 2008 Share Posted September 8, 2008 Just a question didn't the RI's always use better caps than cheapie ceramic discs? For $2200 I would sure hope so! More than likely. I think bumblebees or maybe Vitamin Qs. But that's an easy change. I was mainly going by the serial number... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JEPI Posted September 8, 2008 Author Share Posted September 8, 2008 Just got off the phone with Gibson. This has been an interesting journey to say the least. Gibson says that early '59 RI's are not like what has been produced in the last 10 years....Because of public demand, the R9 etc., is basically a "VOS" whereas the '59 RI made in '83 thru ??? was as close to but not exact regarding electronics......No bumble bee caps, no CTS pots, no '57 classics. (I was told that R9's have Burstbucker 1 & 2 not '57's. Also, some have acrylic inlays. True?) So, bottom line, Gibson says, its a '59 RI with Bill Lawrence pups, standard pots and caps but all else is close to original including MOP inlays....... His price book only went back to 1990. (Maybe someone here as an earlier price list???). He said, "In 1990 the '59 RI sold for $4199 and the Standard sold for $1399 RETAIL".. That seems HIGH but then again that's RETAIL. So, the original $2200 in '88 seems right on, considering he got a deal with HSC out the door. Here's a photo of the best looking MOP inlay........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricochet Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 "Willi Lorenz Stich" came back from Germany and OBL then joined Gibson in '87 and left in '89. I thought he was known for the "blade" type pups.................J That's correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricochet Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 Good link and info regarding the R9 will Bill Lawrence pups. Also' date=' it says that they were shipped without the pickguard installed but was included in the case. He did have it installed after the purchase...................J[/quote'] I checked the link. It also says RIs from '88 were (dark) cherry sunburst(it has a pic). Yours looks dark allright, but not particularly cherryburst? If it's a HCSB (heritage cherry sunburst) it should be indicated as such in one of the PU cavities. Do the other '88 indicators like the open 'b' and 'o' and no dot in the logo, black dot sidemarkers, and the brown backplates check out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricochet Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 Another good point...Also' date=' the pots (what's that little brass insert in the middle?), won't come up in the pot search at guitar dater. R137882 44O-71-079[/quote'] I've seen those inserts before. See pic: Left is Gibson, right is CTS http://www.lespaulforum.com/pots/fullimages/imgm_023_f.jpg According to http://www.vintageguitars.org.uk/gibson_potentiometer_description/71079 the 71-079 is the part number for a 100K pot!(no wonder it's sounding dark). 440 Is the code Gibson placed before the part number. 137 is the manufacturer-code for CTS... 882 is '88 February I presume...:-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svet Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 Hi Jepi, I just opened the back of my R9's control cavity for the first time. Below is a picture of said chamber. Once I change the strings I will extract the PU's and have a look at the long tenon. Svet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JEPI Posted September 9, 2008 Author Share Posted September 9, 2008 I checked the link. It also says RIs from '88 were (dark) cherry sunburst(it has a pic). Yours looks dark allright' date=' but not particularly cherryburst? If it's a HCSB (heritage cherry sunburst) it should be indicated as such in one of the PU cavities. Do the other '88 indicators like the open 'b' and 'o' and no dot in the logo, black dot sidemarkers, and the brown backplates check out? [/quote'] Thanks for the info on the pots Ric. (100K ???) Should be an easy switch to CTS and BumbleBees). The pup cavity has "SB" in it and it's really not as dark as it looks. I talked to the guy I bought it from late last night. He said it was being offered as a "Heritage Tobacco Sunburst". Gibson has it listed as "Heritage Darkburst". (He is diligently looking for the original paperwork, but I seriously doubt he'll find it). It is actually called Tobacco which I've found is occasionally interchanged with "Ice Tea". All the pics I've taken still make it look a bit reddish. But, there's no red or cherry in it at all... Another thing he told me - It came with a brown case w/ gold Gibson logo and purple lining which he didn't like and opted for a standard black with gray lining. (Nimrod!!!)... The photo below is more true to the color, but its still not 100%. In person, you can see the flame extend all the way to the binding over the whole top. The other '88 indicators? Very Interesting..... They do check out the same as you listed which makes me wonder, "Did Gibson just take a Standard and call it a RI"??? Is this a 20 year old bait and switch? Another gem of curiosity - The tenon does not intrude into the pup cavity like on my Epi!!!! YET, it is confirmed a RI from their files. FYI, the list on it was $2600, so he did get $400 knocked off. It seems that the $500 I gave him was a mistake.... lol Just kidding. Man, I can't wait to see what info tomorrow brings.... A '59 RI '88 LP HYBRID Geeeeeeeeeeeeez...............J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JEPI Posted September 9, 2008 Author Share Posted September 9, 2008 Hi Jepi' date=' I just opened the back of my R9's control cavity for the first time. Below is a picture of said chamber. Once I change the strings I will extract the PU's and have a look at the long tenon. Svet [img']http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x263/svetkt88/Guitars/r9cavity.jpg?t=1220970208[/img] Thanks Svet.... As I just posted, the tenon on this one does not go into the pup cavity... This has been interesting..............J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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