Wondo Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 I' think we should all file for disability. I think we can be diagnosed with WPVS (Wrongly Placed Volute Syndrome). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crappy Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 I' think we should all file for disability. I think we can be diagnosedb with WPVS (Wrongly Placed Volute Syndrome). The forms are down the hall and to the right. Please fill out all 3,699 pages and have your luthier notarize it.:P/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Custom Admin Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Turkey T' date=' The issue is this. I don't know of anybody that had the opportunity to go into a store and look at the Lifeson, play it, and then make a decision. The fact is that as we knew it, only 300 were being made. Well then, we had better all have run to our dealers and put in the order right? Right. I know I based my decisions on a couple of things. First was that I have always wanted an ES 355 in white, particularly something close to what Alex was playing. The Custom Shop seemed like that is what they were providing. Second, I own several Custom Shop guitars. They have all been great (some needed some minor work by my luthier, but that is personal preference). So, after having dealt with the Custom Shop for many years, I knew what to expect. You see, here is the key. We expect something from a manufactuer based on past experiences and from what they promise to deliver. I had no reason to doubt that the Custom Shop would deliver anything other than perfection. I always expect some minor flaws here and there. That is what makes these guitars unique. Not every bit of the process is done by machine. A lot is still done by hand and so imperfections are expected. But, the volute situation is a design flaw. It actually makes the back of the neck relative to the scale on the fingerboard shorter than it should be. This is a musical instrument. It is meant to be played. It is not like a Revolutionary War musket that I will hang over the fire place and do not care whether or not it fires correctly. The design flaw has something to do with the overall effectiveness of the instrument. Dig?[/quote'] OK, so let me pose the same question to you that is did to PJLCC above. say you go to Musket Mart looking for the new limited edition. you've been there many other times and had good luck with them. you buy a musket with the expectation that it WILL fire. the dealer gives you a short approval period. you get home and find that, in fact, the gun does NOT fire...or the trigger is frozen...or whatever. what's your next step with this musket? not trying to derail the topic at hand, as i would love to get the "why" cleared up and move on for better or worse. But this is an honest question to all of you who have purchsed and kept the guitar despite misgivings... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Custom Admin Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 The forms are down the hall and to the right. Please fill out all 3' date='699 pages and have your luthier notarize it.:P/ [/quote'] shouldn't that be 2,112 pages? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crappy Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 shouldn't that be 2' date='112 pages?[/quote'] No thats the room number thats down the hall and to the right where you get the forms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enduroexpert Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 i doubt you would buy the car anyway and then go on an internet forum and talk about how GM screwed you. Thats the difference between spending $4000 & $40,000 for you..................theres slightly more to go wrong on a car, but you would expect the guitar in general as a very simple instrument to make for a manufacturer such as Gibson who's been at it for so many years not to get screwed up as this one as really...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wondo Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 OK' date=' so let me pose the same question to you that is did to PJLCC above. say you go to Musket Mart looking for the new limited edition. you've been there many other times and had good luck with them. you buy a musket with the expectation that it WILL fire. the dealer gives you a short approval period. you get home and find that, in fact, the gun does NOT fire...or the trigger is frozen...or whatever. what's your next step with this musket? [/quote'] Admin, The scenario, in order to be accurate, would be like this (and I bring this up because many are forgetting a very important part of this equation). You know that a limited edition is going to be released and there are only going to be 300 of them. You go to Musket Mart and ask them to get you one. You know you will not have a chance to try it before you buy it because if you waste too much time, you might lose the chance to own one. So, you order one in good faith because the Musket Shop has always built the best muskets in the world and they even claim so on their certificates of authenticity. You then order it, and have it shipped. When it arrives and you try it and you find it does not fire correctly, you call the Musket Shop 800 number and they have no idea what is going on. They say that is how the musket is supposed to be, but you know different. So, you get on the Musket Shop forum and ask, because at least there you have a chance of getting a straight answer. You go round and round with the forum and no answers as to why your musket does not seem to be what it was supposed to be. You wait because you do not know what you are supposed to do. There is no replacement musket or repair of said musket because the forum Admin has not given any answers or options as to what you are supposed to do. So, we sit and wait. You have contacted your dealer, but your dealer does not know the scoop either because they have called the Musket Shop and they tell them the same thing that you have been told. If there are no options, then that is one of the outcomes. Replacement is another option. Repair is another option. All that any of us has asked is what are the options, and until this point that point has not been addressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crappy Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Nuff said. Saw that in the LPF. It's funny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enduroexpert Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 But this is an honest question to all of you who have purchsed and kept the guitar despite misgivings... Because its what we have waited the best part of thirty years for .........heard that Gibson Custom Shop are to do the job, got to be a good call, how can you go wrong.........???? Jump in with both feet as there are only 300 to be made and cannot afford to wait another thirty years really and just trust that the so called "best of the best" can pull the job off no worries....!!!! But then again, they only have how many years experience making Strung Instruments again......... THATS WHY.... Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enduroexpert Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Anyhow, any news what went down in that meeting today at the Custom Shop .............? Roger from Customer Services tells me there was a meeting about the Volute Issue in particular as its caused so much commotion. If a meetings been called, someone took minutes.........???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Custom Admin Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Admin' date=' The scenario, in order to be accurate, would be like this (and I bring this up because many are forgetting a very important part of this equation). You know that a limited edition is going to be released and there are only going to be 300 of them. You go to Musket Mart and ask them to get you one. You know you will not have a chance to try it before you buy it because if you waste too much time, you might lose the chance to own one. So, you order one in good faith because the Musket Shop has always built the best muskets in the world and they even claim so on their certificates of authenticity. You then order it, and have it shipped. When it arrives and you try it and you find it does not fire correctly, you call the Musket Shop 800 number and they have no idea what is going on. They say that is how the musket is supposed to be, but you know different. So, you get on the Musket Shop forum and ask, because at least there you have a chance of getting a straight answer. You go round and round with the forum and no answers as to why your musket does not seem to be what it was supposed to be. You wait because you do not know what you are supposed to do. There is no replacement musket or repair of said musket because the forum Admin has not given any answers or options as to what you are supposed to do. So, we sit and wait. You have contacted your dealer, but your dealer does not know the scoop either because they have called the Musket Shop and they tell them the same thing that you have been told. If there are no options, then that is one of the outcomes. Replacement is another option. Repair is another option. All that any of us has asked is what are the options, and until this point that point has not been addressed.[/quote'] i guess that's kind of my point, though: why would you finalize the purchase of any item you had misgivings about from the start and THEN wait and wait to see what your options are? i mean, who cares if there's only 3 or 30 or 300...if you order something and it's not right, or not what you expect...why keep it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Custom Admin Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Anyhow' date=' any news what went down in that meeting today at the Custom Shop .............? Roger from Customer Services tells me there was a meeting about the Volute Issue in particular as its caused so much commotion. If a meetings been called, someone took minutes.........????[/quote'] no news...there was a brief get together about it today but i was not involved (why would i be? i've only been on the frontline of this for a solid month). we have been under siege from a virus here all week, so things have been a bit chaotic. However, the computer issues seem to be resolved as of late today. hopefully i will be able to get the scoop--if there is any--tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enduroexpert Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Nice one..... Thanks for the update Custom A. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enduroexpert Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 i guess that's kind of my point' date=' though: why would you finalize the purchase of any item you had misgivings about from the start and THEN wait and wait to see what your options are? i mean, who cares if there's only 3 or 30 or 300...if you order something and it's not right, or not what you expect...why keep it?[/quote'] Cause we waited so long for it to come along........surely thats understandable...? ......and as none seem to be for sale anywhere else on the planet I did not want to miss out on "the" single opportunity of buying one of my childhood heroes signature guitars. At the end of the day we are saying we had faith in Gibson to produce the goods, it did but it has flaws..........thats all....!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wondo Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Cause we waited so long for it to come along........surely thats understandable...? ......and as none seem to be for sale anywhere else on the planet I did not want to miss out on "the" single opportunity of buying one of my childhood heroes signature guitars. At the end of the day we are saying we had faith in Gibson to produce the goods' date=' it did but it has flaws..........thats all....!!!![/quote'] That is correct. We had faith in the Custom Shop. Anyone who buys limited items from the Custom Shop knows you have to order them ahead of time or you won't get one. All we are trying to do is find out why it happened, was it the Custom Shop, was it Alex, is there a reason for it being the way that it is?? And, how are we supposed to return it, if we have no word from the Custom Shop if it is returnable or how they are honoring the situation. In the mean time, we all need to find a good use for the volute. Here is my suggestion: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Custom Admin Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 That is correct. We had faith in the Custom Shop. Anyone who buys limited items from the Custom Shop knows you have to order them ahead of time or you won't get one. All we are trying to do is find out why it happened' date=' was it the Custom Shop, was it Alex, is there a reason for it being the way that it is?? And, how are we supposed to return it, if we have no word from the Custom Shop if it is returnable or how they are honoring the situation. In the mean time, we all need to find a good use for the volute. Here is my suggestion: [img']http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb206/RareFormMusic/template-1SB.jpg[/img] i know this situation kind of sucks but...that's funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Custom Admin Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Cause we waited so long for it to come along........surely thats understandable...? ......and as none seem to be for sale anywhere else on the planet I did not want to miss out on "the" single opportunity of buying one of my childhood heroes signature guitars. At the end of the day we are saying we had faith in Gibson to produce the goods' date=' it did but it has flaws..........thats all....!!!![/quote'] yep, understood and appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wondo Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 Well, Here's your proof: Elliot Easton's 74 or 75 ES 355 and Crappy's Lifeson. Just looking at it you can see the design of the Lifeson is not conducive to a nice comfortable neck. This has to be the biggest screw up Gibson has ever done. And, it had to happen on the one guitar I always wished they'd make. That just sucks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enduroexpert Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 Well' date='Here's your proof: Elliot Easton's 74 or 75 ES 355 and Crappy's Lifeson. Just looking at it you can see the design of the Lifeson is not conducive to a nice comfortable neck. [img']http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb206/RareFormMusic/DSC00186comp.jpg[/img] This has to be the biggest screw up Gibson has ever done. And, it had to happen on the one guitar I always wished they'd make. That just sucks! Thats just f!**!!&%!!*ng unbelievable to see it side by side like that, I'm going to love the outcome of the Custom Shops meeting on this one cause its got to be total "hands held high" or a "big fat lie"......... I really don't want to send mine back but I'd hope they're willing to offer some kind of "something" to the folk who purchased it through their dealers, especially to the people who do want it corrected....!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Custom Admin Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 i can tell you with almost 100% certainty that if a remedy is ultimately offered for this situation, it WILL involve you sending your guitar back to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VRob8 Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 Naturally, because the only effective remedy would be major surgery to reshape and refinish - or indeed completely replace - the neck. Not a pleasant thought to contemplate. I foresee some grim choices ahead for AL owners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crappy Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 It will not be a fast turn around, it will be months before you get the guitars back. It might be cheaper and faster if Gibson sent out 300 belt sanders and a can of white paint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wondo Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 i can tell you with almost 100% certainty that if a remedy is ultimately offered for this situation' date=' it WILL involve you sending your guitar back to us. [/quote'] If Gibson decides that they wanted to remedy the situation, one of the options could be that Gibson offers a credit for those of us disgruntled AL owners towards our next Custom Shop purchase. This would keep us in good faith with the Custom Shop and would keep us for repeat business. Personally, that would be perfect for me because I really have my sights set on getting an Axcess when they come out (the guitar that Lifeson primarily plays these days). I greatly hesitate with the idea of sending the guitar back to the Custom Shop to be fixed. First and foremost, because there will be no guarantee that the guitar will be done correctly the second time. Secondly, there is no guarantee that the work will be done without compromising the guitar further. Having a neck redone and then repainted could be a noticable repair. Having a neck replaced is major surgery and would really bring the integrity of the construction and the overall value of the guitar down as far as I am concerned. And then there is of course the long wait to get it back from the Custom Shop. There would also be the cost of shipping to and from. There is also the possibility of it being damaged in shipping. I paid $200.00 to get mine set up professionally. It plays great (except for the volute of course) and I would hate to compromise that set up as well. The safest way to ship these guitars is by air and that is not going to be paid for by the Custom Shop I am sure. So by the time you pay for shipping to and from you are looking at probably around $300.00 cost to the customer, not even taking into account the cost to the Custum Shop. So, if the Custom Shop pays for shipping, time, labor, materials and so forth, it might actually be a cheaper remedy for the Custom Shop to offer credit on our next purchase or maybe cash back for those that are not going to purchase another guitar from the Custom Shop. I say give me credit on my next purchase and I will be a happy camper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turkeyT Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 Gibson, send me a free (alpine white) EDS-1275 and I will be a happy camper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Custom Admin Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 If Gibson decides that they wanted to remedy the situation' date=' one of the options could be that Gibson offers a credit for those of us disgruntled AL owners towards our next Custom Shop purchase. This would keep us in good faith with the Custom Shop and would keep us for repeat business. Personally, that would be perfect for me because I really have my sights set on getting an Axcess when they come out (the guitar that Lifeson primarily plays these days). I greatly hesitate with the idea of sending the guitar back to the Custom Shop to be fixed. First and foremost, because there will be no guarantee that the guitar will be done correctly the second time. Secondly, there is no guarantee that the work will be done without compromising the guitar further. Having a neck redone and then repainted could be a noticable repair. Having a neck replaced is major surgery and would really bring the integrity of the construction and the overall value of the guitar down as far as I am concerned. And then there is of course the long wait to get it back from the Custom Shop. There would also be the cost of shipping to and from. There is also the possibility of it being damaged in shipping. I paid $200.00 to get mine set up professionally. It plays great (except for the volute of course) and I would hate to compromise that set up as well. The safest way to ship these guitars is by air and that is not going to be paid for by the Custom Shop I am sure. So by the time you pay for shipping to and from you are looking at probably around $300.00 cost to the customer, not even taking into account the cost to the Custum Shop. So, if the Custom Shop pays for shipping, time, labor, materials and so forth, it might actually be a cheaper remedy for the Custom Shop to offer credit on our next purchase or maybe cash back for those that are not going to purchase another guitar from the Custom Shop. I say give me credit on my next purchase and I will be a happy camper.[/quote'] I am sure we would cover the shipping costs...that is typical procedure when get get guitar back for warranty reasons. But, just so you're prepared, i will tell you that in my 10 years here i have never seen us offer any other remedy than repairing or replacing the guitar. I have no reason to think this situation will be any different, if it even gets to that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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