Adirondack tops and the slope-shouldered models

[Dave in SLC]

Hi folks,

 

Would anyone be willing to talk about their experiences with Adirondack-topped Gibson slope-shouldered acoustics? The J-35/45 and the AJ?

 

I'm wondering whether the Adirondack top adds so much to the sound that it's worth doing a custom order with that specified.

 

Thx in advance!

 

Dave in SLC

[guitarstrummer]

I'm not sure how good of an answer you'll be able to get to your question. Only one of my guitars has an adi top, but it's hard to say if the difference in sound is due to the top or due to the other features (braces, etc.). I'm sure it makes some difference, but is it worth the extra cost to have it put on a custom???? I would say if you have the funds to do it, then for sure do it. If nothing else, it will help on the resale end down the road.

[nid2007]

Dave,

If it was me, I'd do it. Only because my own personal experience has taught me that if I am thinking about a desired spec on a guitar I want, and I settle for something without it, I am never fully satisfied and I eventually end up paying for what I wanted in the first place--my personal GAS curse.

 

BTW, sell me your LG-2.

[maninblack]

I have a j-45 in braz/adi. Like the honorable strummer said, its hard to tell what part

is most responsible for the sound on whole. I know that this guitar sings. Literally sustains

for a solid minute.

[jannusguy]

i'm with man in black on this one. my OJ and my roy smeck both have adi tops and the sustain is remarkably more pronounced than on my J45 or blues king which have sitka tops. i actively seek out adi tops now. not that i would replace the two sitka spruce guitars but any new additions will likely be red spruce. strictly subjective but it works for me.

[mjs4x6]

I have a koa and red spruce AJ. I definitely think that the red spruce produces a note with more guts. I can't describe it any better than that but you can definitely feel the difference. I also have a sitka topped AJ and a sitka topped J45 so it is easy to compare. If I could have only one I would want the red spruce top.

[Guest]

I have 4 adirondack-topped Gibsons, with one being a slope-shouldered guitar (SJ). I consider them to have a fuller, more 'mature' sound than "equivalent" sitka-topped guitars of the same design and period. These were all custom-shop-built though, so from that perspective, it is not completely "fair" to compare with non CS guitars.

 

My advice would be: *If* you are planning on ordering a Custom Shop guitar, really give serious thought to spending the extra bucks to have it built using a nice red spruce top. My thought is "take the upcharge, and divide by the number of years you think you'll have that guitar, and see if that dollar figure, per year, is likely to be worth it for you". Plus, as a red spruce topped guitar, the resale value should recognize that initial extra cost too.

 

Fred

[Guest]

I have 4 adirondack-topped Gibsons, and consider them to have a fuller, more 'mature' sound than "equivalent" sitka-topped guitars of the same design and period. These were all custom-shop-built though, so from that perspective, it is not completely "fair" to compare with non CS guitars.

 

My advice would be: *If* you are planning on ordering a Custom Shop guitar, really give serious thought to spending the extra bucks to have it built using a nice red spruce top. My thought is "take the upcharge, and divide by the number of years you think you'll have that guitar, and see if that dollar figure, per year, is likely to be worth it for you". Plus, as a red spruce topped guitar, the resale value should recognize that initial extra cost too.

 

Fred

[jgwoods]

An adi top is one factor in the sound you'll get. I suppose everything is a factor, but some are responsible for a large portion of the tone you get, and most are not.

Top Wood

Top Bracing

Top Voicing

Body wood.

everything else.

 

If Adi is selected, braced and voiced the way you want it, you will love the result.

If it ain't braced to produce the sound you want, and if the guy doing it and shaving the braces isn't tuned in to the wood, and what you are seeking, then you will think adi is ordinary.

 

Frankly I don't care anymore. I've had at least a couple of guitars with sitka, englemann, adi, and mahogany, tops- with hog, rosewood and koa sides. While they all have tendencies any guitar with any combination that sounds good to you will work fine- even if you were blind and never knew nor asked what the wood was.

 

Adirondack is all the rage these days- the missing item in the re-creation of the great pre-war instruments.

I don't buy it. There's lots of guitars with various wood combos that are going to sound as good, probably better than the precious pre-war instruments once they have 50-60 years of playing in them- providing they weren't built too lightly in the fist place( something to worry about I think) .

[J185cat]

I have an AJ with Adi top and consider the sound to be more powerful than the Sitka topped versions I have played. This guitar is more "warm" in the mid's to lowers than the Sitka versions. However, I still like the sound of the treble on the Sitka top. If I were to do it over again, I would still buy the Adi though, it is kinda one of those jaw dropping things when you strum that big chord.

[Red 333]

Hi folks' date='

 

Would anyone be willing to talk about their experiences with Adirondack-topped Gibson slope-shouldered acoustics? The J-35/45 and the AJ?

 

I'm wondering whether the Adirondack top adds so much to the sound that it's worth doing a custom order with that specified.

 

Thx in advance!

 

Dave in SLC[/quote']

 

****

 

I've got a J35 w/Adi top coming this week. I've got some other slope-shouldered models (AJ, J160e, McCartney Texan), so I'll let you know how they compare. It won't be an apple to apples, though. The J35 is short scale with mahogany sides/back, but AJ bracing.

 

There is a recent run of 40 J45s with Adi tops, but they have bubinga sides/back. Again, the differences between these and the regular J45s are more than just the top, so it will be hard to differentiate how the top alone impacts the sound. Maybe someone here's got one, and can let us know what they think.

 

The posters who pointed out that top bracings' construction is just as important as what the tops are made of are correct. However, I think it's safe to say that Gibson is going to do a good job of it.

 

Gibson Montana employees I've talked to seem convinced of Red Spruce's superiority to Sitka.

 

Red 333

[woodruff]

I have an AJ with Adi top and consider the sound to be more powerful than the Sitka topped versions I have played. This guitar is more "warm" in the mid's to lowers than the Sitka versions. However' date=' I still like the sound of the treble on the Sitka top. If I were to do it over again, I would still buy the Adi though, it is kinda one of those jaw dropping things when you strum that big chord.[/quote']

 

i have never known this to be not true with adi tops. they are superior to sitka, imho! congrats!

[ballcorner]

I have collected guitars for about 30 years now and I can say with certainty that Adirondack Spruce is worth the extra money. Still, there are characteristics of this wood that you might not want, such as the richness of midrange and the length of time it takes to break in (most people say 20+ years) fully.

 

Fresh out of the box, an Adirondack top doesn't sound all that much different from Sitka or Engelmann spruce - but within five years you would notice a welcome difference. The same can be said of Adirondack as we say of Brazilian Rosewood - it is a premium product at a premium price and it will lead to better sound down the road but the increase you get in volume and tone is somewhat negligible.

 

My advice: Don't spend the grocery money on Adirondack spruce, but if you just have the cash laying around, let 'er rip.

[docwatsonfan]

I have a WM-45 and an OJ with adi

both hog slope shouldered

 

I had phosphor bronze lights (martin SP 4100) on both

 

the wm sounds wonderful with those strings

 

I just found out after switching the OJ to john pearse 80/20 bronze wound new mediums that the guitar now has come to life

 

and to think I had it for sale because I had the wrong strings on it........

 

this is my second hog/adi

the first was a martin ceo4, a J45 wannabe

 

it was tight and had a nice warm tone, but maybe needed lots of playing to be a good one, so I gave up on that one

 

I can say now that I thought my OJ was the same way, until I changed the strings today

 

it came to life, and sounds like a good Gibson should, SUPER DUPER !

 

did I mention, the OJ wants to be played aggressively , that is for sure! maybe there is something special about adi after all!

[Dave in SLC]

I just found out after switching the OJ to john pearse 80/20 bronze wound new mediums that the guitar now has come to life

 

and to think I had it for sale because I had the wrong strings on it........

 

[deleted]

 

I can say now that I thought my OJ was the same way' date=' until I changed the strings today

 

it came to life, and sounds like a good Gibson should, SUPER DUPER !

 

did I mention, the OJ wants to be played aggressively , that is for sure! maybe there is something special about adi after all![/quote']

 

DWFan,

 

Isn't it amazing what the right strings and/or setup can do?! I was thinking of selling two Gibsons last year until I had new saddles installed! <smile>

 

And Ballcorner, even though I can't completely agree, I love something I read on the Unofficial Martin Guitar Forum: "Sometimes eating is overrated!"

 

Thanks, folks.

[docwatsonfan]

quote: Isn't it amazing what the right strings and/or setup can do?!

 

I agree

 

and I also came home from work the day before I changed strings and just strummed the heck out of the OJ

maybe THAT woke it up a bit too

 

guitars can be fickle too, just like their owners

[Red 333]

This is not going to settle any Sitka vs Red Spruce debate, but I wanted to tell you all a little about the Red Spruce-topped J35 I got last week.

 

For those of you that don't know, the J35 was the model that became the J45 in the early 40's. Mine is a 2007 1939 J35 Reissue made for Fuller's Vintage Guitars.

 

It's a slope-shouldered, short-scale dread with Advanced Jumbo bracing. The sides and back are mahogany. Fire-stripe pickguard. It's got a very chuncky neck that is surprisingly very comfortable to play, and for me to get my stubby fingers around. By way of contrast, this neck is thicker than the one on my '06 Advanced Jumbo. I have many electrics and acoustics with much slimmer necks than either the AJ or J35, and I believe I prefer the profile on this J35's neck. Unlike the AJ, there's no neck binding or fancy fret marker inlays, just dots.

 

The headstock is the old fashioned, straight style with script logo, like on the AJ, but without the holly veneer. Seeing the woodgrain is very nice. Butterbean Gotoh tuners, like on the AJ, too.

 

The top has multi-ply binding (the AJ's is single ply). Single ply on the back.

 

It has the old-timey, small centered burst, like the OJ, but it seems to go light to dark more gradually. I may be wrong about this, as I've only seen the OJ in pictures, but in them, the burst seems to go light to dark more quickly.

 

The guitar came well set up, with very low action. The bridge is the thicker-on-the bass-side found on the AJ, as well.

 

The grain of the red spruce top is spaced wider and maybe a bit more irregularly than any sitka tops I have.

 

This guitar is a beautiful work of craftsmanship.

 

The guitar is loud, as you would expect, and has great dynamic range. It can roar, but it can aslo sound very delicate, too. It has VERY clear and ringing highs, even when finger picked softly. This lends a lot to the overall excellent articulation this guitar has.

 

My AJ seems to have a scooped eq curve that leaves a place for my voice to sit comfortably in the mix; the J35 has stonger mids than that.

 

It doesn't have the warmth or bottom of the rosewood bodied AJ. The low end still sounds a little wiry yet (as new guitars often do), but may deveop with some playing.

 

Again, I can't say for certain exactly how the Red Spruce is coloring or effecting the tone or volume, but I like this J35 reissue VERY MUCH. It's quickly becoming a favorite.

 

I also want to note that the folks at Gibson Montanna were very helpful before I made this purchase. Since not much infornmation about this model was available anywhere, they answered the questions the folks at Fullers couldn't.

 

Red 333

[GRETSCHLOVER]

As far as the Beatles J 160E's, George somehow got Johns...which his Family still has to this day

[eeh1]

Hi Dave. I have a martin d28 brazilian and a gibson AJ brazilian both with adirondack tops and both braced the old way 1937 specs. I love them. i would order the top. There is a limited edition J45 True Vintage Vos that has the adirondack top.

[dwolf]

I have the new SJ-200 True Vintage limited edition with the adi top. Although there were only 135 (or something like that), I was fortunate to have played 3 of them in Texas. They were all stellar. I had a sitka topped '93 J-200 which was my main guitar for many years. And I picked that one as the best of a whole bunch of them that I played at the time. There was a huge difference in the sound. Now, I recognize that these are very different guitars, with fairly different construction (the new one, in addition to the adi top, has adi braces, thinner braces, hide glue, built lighter over all). I do notice what others have said. The adi topped guitar has a more open, crisper sound, prominent bass and treble, with attenuated mids, lots more volume, and lots more sustain. How much is due to the top, versus the other factors? I don't truly know, but I have to believe that the top is a major contributer. If it were me, I'd spring for the adi top.

[Hoss]

Dave, If you're looking at potential resale, I'd get the adi. If you want a good sounding player, I'm less enthusiastic about adi.

 

That said, I have three adi topped Gibsons. But my '46 J45 has plenty of headroom- and it's probably sitka. As a matter of fact, I sat down last weekend with a very good player who had a '39 J35 (adi) and we passed both guitars back and forth. Any difference in tone was probably due to the differences in string gauge. They both sounded great. Come to think of it, there's been a lot of buzz about '46 Gibsons, and they're all sitka, as far as I know.

 

Personally, I imagine if those prewar guitars had been made with Sitka, that would be the wood of choice today. Those old guitars had many other features besides Adi tops that had to contribute to their sound. For one thing, they were built lighter. (And just look at the different schematics for current J45 features.)

 

It does seem to take longer to break in an adi top than sitka, but that might have as much to do with the top thickness and grain density as the wood. (FWIW, I've heard of people who want a comparable sound to adi without the extended break in period using a variety of european spruce.)

[suburude63]

As Jannusguy says!

 

"Life is short buy the Adi topped Gibson!"

 

I now have a bourgeois 1996 D-150 Braz/Adi top It has opened up and is amazing! Its not a loud guitar but sustain and tone is incredible! Just beautiful! I also have an Madagascar/Adi topped AJ that is completely different in sound louder and rounder sounding Definitely a Gibson! Also an Adi topped Hyde glued J 45 TV.

I have had standard topped versions of all but the bourgeois . And I have A-Bd them together they are definitely different in sound. But sound is way way subjective! So really as my Dad used to say!

 

"It dousn't mean **** to an Eskimo!"

 

Buy the Adi topped guitar! You wont be disappointed!

 

 

suburude

[nid2007]

Dave,

I have an adi topped J-45. I like it very much. It has a very rich sound--a little less crisp or dry than the standard J-45. However, I have no real way to attribute this to the adi top--so many J-45's sound different to me. One thing I can say for sure though, is that I love the wide grain and bumpiness of the finish on the top. Reminds me of a 000-18GE I had for a short while. Looks like it could start checking between the grain any time--which I would welcome as long as it does not indicate any potential cracking issues.

[rar]

I initially thought that eeh1 reviving a year-old thread was a bad idea, but, man!, was I wrong. Obviously there's were lots of pent-up "Sitka v Adi" opinions that needed airing!

 

So here's mine: I wouldn't say all Adi is better than all Sitka, but, I am an Adi fan and have even been known to pay a completely outrageous upcharge for it when special-ordering a guitar. (BTW, this was not for a Gibson. Gibson's pricing for such things is quite reasonable.)

 

-- Bob R

[Rambler]

While many indeed factors apply, Id be inclined to say that w/adi you do get more punch. Sitka is glassier (the diff between a 52 Broadcaster and a 62 Tele? - Check the Jim Weider clips on YT, you'll hear what I mean). Out of the box, adi is a bit green, but as it opens, a little more complexity. Two guys I follow, Paul Geremia and Frank Fotusky, play adi top slopes. Check em out on YT. OTH, Jorma K and John Jackson sounded fine with their 50s slopes, which were sitka. Chaucon le gaut.