K.E.B.1281734147 Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Hi all. What are your opinions on how to make my rig sound better. I realize "better" is subjective, so I'll try and explain. I want a clearer, cleaner sound. My sound is a bit muddy. My Rig: Epi Dot Deluxe Epi Valve Standard All equipment is OEM. Which of these will have more effect on tone? A. Pickups (I like the P90 sound) B. Bridge (aluminum) C. Tubes D. Speaker E. Wiring F. Other Thanks for your consideration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricochet Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 I think a change of speaker and pickups will be the most effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Have you exhausted all the possibilites, within your current rig? By that, I mean all the tone control (guitar and amp) combinations, etc. IF SO...maybe that amp and/or guitar is not what you want??? A pickup change might be in order, if you like P-90 tone, try Gibson P-94's (direct replacement for Humbuckers), or one of the other maker's version, of that. I like Celestion Vintage 30 speakers, but there are a lot to choose from. However, they won't really change your tone, as much as tighten up (or, in some cases) loosen up, the focus. If you want really "Clean" try a Roland Jazz Chorus, or one of the "Cube" series amps. Cube 60 has plenty of headroom for "live" gigs. And decent tone, too. Fender Deluxe Reverb (22 tube watts) and/or Twin Reverb (85 tube watts) are both excellent amps, as well. What you may need, and I'm only speculating here, is more "headroom" or clean tone, before things start to distort or muddy up. Any of the amps mentioned, will do that. The only thing you can do, is go out and test things...see what will strike your fancy, within your budget. CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pohatu771 Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Unfortunately, from what I've heard, you seem to have a very muddy system... in my own experience with my Valve Junior, it's not a terribly clear system stock. The stock Epiphone humbuckers seem to have a reputation for muddiness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duane v Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 I'll agree with Reeko..... Upgrading the speakers on your amp makes a huge difference.... On my VOX AC50 I changed out the stock VOX 12" speakers and installed celestion G12H 30 watters, and it's clean as a bell, and it crunches like bag of fresh Doritos... Then pups..... I've found a better pup than the Gibson p-90's, and it's CC pups..... I'm in love with the sound:d/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJB08 Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Some times it's not the equipement. A bit ago i thought things sounded like sh-t but, it wasn't the gear. I was out of practice. But, new speakers/ p-94 pick ups / set up - never hurt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K.E.B.1281734147 Posted March 23, 2009 Author Share Posted March 23, 2009 Thanks. CB, by "clean" I mean clear or sharp. Sorry to use the term clean and muddy. I want clear in the clean mode and crunchy in the distorted mode. I'll check out the Gibson P90s. Thanks. Oh, and yes. I've exausted the possible variables. I've had this setup a couple years now. Celestions might be in order too. Thanks duane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K.E.B.1281734147 Posted March 23, 2009 Author Share Posted March 23, 2009 I'll agree with Reeko..... Upgrading the speakers on your amp makes a huge difference.... On my VOX AC50 I changed out the stock VOX 12" speakers and installed celestion G12H 30 watters' date=' and it's clean as a bell, and it crunches like bag of fresh Doritos... Then pups..... I've found a better pup than the Gibson p-90's, and it's CC pups..... I'm in love with the sound:d/ [/quote'] Duane, what are CC pickups? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duane v Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Some times it's not the equipement. A bit ago i thought things sounded like sh-t but' date=' it wasn't the gear. I was out of practice.[/quote'] LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JefferySmith Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 I vote for pickups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Thanks. CB' date=' by "clean" I mean clear or sharp. Sorry to use the term clean and muddy. I want [i']clear[/i] in the clean mode and crunchy in the distorted mode. I'll check out the Gibson P90s. Thanks. Oh, and yes. I've exausted the possible variables. I've had this setup a couple years now. Celestions might be in order too. Thanks duane. You're welcome. "Clear and Sharp" tone...Roland Jazz Chorus 120! Amazingly clean amp, and very loud, too. Fenders have a great clean tone, with just a bit of "grit"(in a good way), too. The Deluxe Reverb and Twin Reverb, especially. Super Reverbs and/or Tweed Bassman, are excellent, as well. But if REALLY "Clean" is what you seek, the Roland may be your "baby?!" You'll have to use "pedals" for any distortion, though. You know...another amp you might try is a VOX AC-30...very "chimming" clean, and an nice distortion, too. The VOX "Valvetronix" (tube pre-amp, solid state power amp) series have a good reputation, as well. CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K.E.B.1281734147 Posted March 23, 2009 Author Share Posted March 23, 2009 You're welcome. "Clear and Sharp" tone...Roland Jazz Chorus 120! Amazingly clean amp' date=' and very loud, too. Fenders have a great clean tone, with just a bit of "grit"(in a good way), too. The Deluxe Reverb and Twin Reverb, especially. Super Reverbs and/or Tweed Bassman, are excellent, as well. But if REALLY "Clean" is what you seek, the Roland may be your "baby?!" You'll have to use "pedals" for any distortion, though. You know...another amp you might try is a VOX AC-30...very "chimming" clean, and an nice distortion, too. The VOX "Valvetronix" (tube pre-amp, solid state power amp) series have a good reputation, as well. CB [/quote'] About 15 years ago (yikes! was it that long ago?) I had a Fender Twin circca 1972. Love'd that one. i'm trying to get the best out of my Epi Valve Standard. I realize they are two different beasts. The VS gets miked. The Twin can stand on the stage all by it's self. I've always liked the Vox sound. I just want to push the Epi equipment to the maximum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K.E.B.1281734147 Posted March 23, 2009 Author Share Posted March 23, 2009 I vote for pickups. Which ones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Lister Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 @ K.E.B. Ever known an auto mechanic who "fixes" cars by putting on new parts until they finally guess right and replace the faulty component? A lot of perfectly good parts are trashed in the process, but the car does run again. Going after tone in this blind fashion is no different. If you have the cash or that's your hobby, go for it. But you can choose a more scientific method and have better, less costly results. To that end, my suggestions: 1. borrow another DOT-style guitar (or try-out from a guitar store even) with the pups you think you need -- test 2. do you have any pedals? EQ or pedal with some freq. range knob will do -- test 3. haul your DOT/VS down to the shop and plug it into any # of external cabs -- wail away test By the time you have finished, you're going to have a pretty solid idea of the "part" of your signal chain that needs changed. If you were wise, then you took notes all during your tests and so now you also have good ideas on the types of parts you want. BTW -- if you simply must start swapping parts blindly, then you're money ahead if start with valves in that VS -- valves may be the greatest single tone changer in amplified music. (Pups being the largest parts dead-end money pit -- speakers are big, but the good ones cost $$.) Final note: When it comes to tone, everything is everything. Figure out what that means and you'll be well on your way to tone nirvana. WELCOME to the forum and GOOD LUCK! Hit every BLUE NOTE baaaby... I'm going to play on:-" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K.E.B.1281734147 Posted March 23, 2009 Author Share Posted March 23, 2009 @ K.E.B.Ever known an auto mechanic who "fixes" cars by putting on new parts until they finally guess right and replace the faulty component? A lot of perfectly good parts are trashed in the process' date=' but the car does run again. Going after tone in this blind fashion is no different. If you have the cash or that's your hobby, go for it. But you can choose a more scientific method and have better, less costly results. To that end, my suggestions: 1. borrow another DOT-style guitar (or try-out from a guitar store even) with the pups you think you need -- test 2. do you have any pedals? EQ or pedal with some freq. range knob will do -- test 3. haul your DOT/VS down to the shop and plug it into any # of external cabs -- wail away test By the time you have finished, you're going to have a pretty solid idea of the "part" of your signal chain that needs changed. If you were wise, then you took notes all during your tests and so now you also have good ideas on the types of parts you want. BTW -- if you simply must start swapping parts blindly, then you're money ahead if start with valves in that VS -- valves may be the greatest single tone changer in amplified music. (Pups being the largest parts dead-end money pit -- speakers are big, but the good ones cost $$.) Final note: When it comes to tone, everything is everything. Figure out what that means and you'll be well on your way to tone nirvana. WELCOME to the forum and GOOD LUCK! Hit every BLUE NOTE baaaby... I'm going to play on:-" I hear ya Steven. I've been away from the game for a while. I haven't played my guitars in months. I started playing 28 years ago. You know how stuff changes. You give good advice to someone who needs all that. My goal is to build a solid Epi system (guitar and amp) and accentuate from there. I could throw a bunch of money at Gibson stuff, or other stuff. That's not my goal. I want to maximize what I have. Parts are cheap. This guitar I have is a gem. It sounds lovely acoustic. It rings. I'm just missing some component. Speakers? Pups? BTW, love your sig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jo.schumi Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 @K.E.B. tone... that's what i am heading for as well... i play a dot as well that i've got some weeks ago. when i tested it unplugged i could hear the "tone" but when plying it as it was it didn't come through. so i started to modify: - installed an alu stop tail - replaced the bridge with roller bridge - and last week end i replaced the plastic nut with a bone nut ==> AND this last modification was the thing: when you work on a stock instrument, when you do mods you always have the impression that the guitar becomes your own individual instrument, a kind of marriage, and you have the impression that the tone changes, becomes better.... but this might be just a subjective impression.... BUT the bone nut was more than just an impression: it was a real modification that lead to better tone. the next thing i will try may be next week end are the pups. my daughter just brought me a set of GFS vintage humbuckers from the states.... if these are not as good as often told i will go for burstbuckers.... but this is the future. i hoper this helps (and i hope that my english isn't too bad) jo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Summerisle Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Ever known an auto mechanic who "fixes" cars by putting on new parts until they finally guess right and replace the faulty component? A lot of perfectly good parts are trashed in the process' date=' but the car does run again. [/quote'] You mean like the guy who put two starter motors in my jeep, until I took it elsewhere and the new mechanic worked out that the cog was stripped in the transmission? Sorry. Private rant... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest icantbuyafender Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 tube swap! try out 6v6's and/or EL-34 i hear groove tubes are great im not big on knowledge of the tube game. im a tube n00b. i just rock out on my Vjr and blackheart.... dunno what they have but they emit warmth and light up when you look inside from the back plate. looks pretty..... like a light bulb! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest icantbuyafender Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 oh and try Guitar Fetish pickups!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EpiSheriMan Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 I want a clearer' date=' cleaner sound. My sound is a bit muddy.[/quote'] Stock Epi pickups will do that, Get a set of Seymour Duncan Seth Lover SH-55's.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 The problem (IF it is one) for me, has always been I like a lot of different "tones!" A lot of which is dictated by the song(s), or style I'm doing, at the time. That, also varies! Everything from "Blues-Blues Rock, to "Jangle Pop," or "Folk Rock" (Byrds, etc.), to Rock-a-Billy and (some) Country, as well as just good old "Rock & Roll!" It's one reason (besides the fact that I LOVE guitars) that I have so many different kinds, and sounding, guitars. Could I do with less...absolutely! But, since I already have them, why not use them, to their best advantage. I guess what I'm taking the long road to saying is, I don't think the quest for THE "perfect" tone, is realistic, but trying to attain the best tone you can, with what you have, and want to do, is a good and constant quest. Plus, dare I say it, we all can get a bit "bored," at times, with "our" tone, and think there has to be something better! Maybe, maybe not...when that happens to me, I switch styles, and/or genres for awhile. Then, when I come back to it, it usually sounds fine (or, as "fine" as I am able to make it, given my own "limitations"). CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K.E.B.1281734147 Posted March 24, 2009 Author Share Posted March 24, 2009 Many good replies here. Thanks for keeping my fire lit. I'm considering Phat Cats and swapping tubes from the stock ones. Actually, I tried an experiment from an idea in these forums. I let my amp sit powered on (guitar volume off) for a few days. I hit a few strings before I left for work today and WOW! The sound is very nice. Gone is the muffled sound. I can't wait to get home tonight and play. Still, I think Phat Cats or some other P90 humbucker style pickup will give me the edge I want. And...It's always good to have a backup set of tubes anyhow. When I was shopping around a couple years ago I remember coming across Weber Speakers. They're made close to where I am so I can pick them up. Anyone heard of Weber Speakers in San Francisco, CA? Thanks for taking the time to read my ramblings. This forum rocks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest icantbuyafender Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 you have to have the tubes on for a while for them to get into their prime? well thats lame... i think? my Vjr and blackhearts do not have standby switches, so the volume knob is the only remedy. can you leave them on too long? :-/ im real confused... does that mean the tone i get from my amp would be different from the moment i flick on the switch to a few hours later? ????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Yes! It will...best tone of the amp is when the tubes have been warmed for awhile. Those that don't have stand-by switches, usually just turn the amp on, right after set up, turn down the volume on the guitar, or if you have a pedal tuner that switches off the lead to the amp, when you tune, you can use that, for a "stand by" switch. That's what I do, when using my "Blues Junior!" By the time it's "Showtime," the amp wails!! CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aj Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Hi all. What are your opinions on how to make my rig sound better. I realize "better" is subjective' date=' so I'll try and explain. I want a clearer, cleaner sound. My sound is a bit muddy. [u']My Rig:[/u] Epi Dot Deluxe Epi Valve Standard All equipment is OEM. Which of these will have more effect on tone? A. Pickups (I like the P90 sound) B. Bridge (aluminum) C. Tubes D. Speaker E. Wiring F. Other Thanks for your consideration. Try a different brand of strings, and toy with the amp settings. I thought the OEM strings on my Epi's to be shrill. Went through a couple brands before I stopped at Gibson Bright. IMHO, your mileage may vary, and all those disclaimers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.