albertjohn Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 Last evening I was in the pub. One of the older blokes in the village asked me if I knew what "16 guage music wire" was. I confessed I didn't. I asked why and he is making a clock from a copy of a very very old drawing and the 16 guage music wire is required for part of the spring mechanism. The only thing I could think of was a 0.016 guage plain string, or possibly piano wire. I'm going to use this as an excuse to visit the pub again tonight to deliver said string. Does this expression mean anything to anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnt Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 1. Check your emails Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thermionik Posted July 26, 2008 Share Posted July 26, 2008 As an engineer from some way back, I can confirm that music wire is an expression covering piano wire, and specifically a cold-drawn wire made of high-carbon steel heat treated to a temper commonly referred to as 'spring'. For this reason it is also occasionally called spring-steel wire. You will have come across it running down the centre of wound guitar strings. I KNEW that training would come in handy one day..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albertjohn Posted July 26, 2008 Author Share Posted July 26, 2008 As an engineer from some way back' date=' I can confirm that [b']music wire[/b] is an expression covering piano wire, and specifically a cold-drawn wire made of high-carbon steel heat treated to a temper commonly referred to as 'spring'. For this reason it is also occasionally called spring-steel wire. You will have come across it running down the centre of wound guitar strings. I KNEW that training would come in handy one day..... Thanks T. Would you consider that a 0.016 guitar string is equivalent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L5Larry Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 By technical definition 16 guage = .0625" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnt Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 By technical definition 16 guage = .0625" Splitting hairs but wouldn't that depend upon whether you're talking about SWG (standard wire guage) or BG (Birmingham gauge) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thermionik Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 Well now, I dug out Newnes and Kempe's, and can confirm that: Whilst a plain old 16 gauge WIRE might be good at 50thou to 65thou, vis: American or Brown & Sharpe (B.& S.) Wire Gauge No.16 is 0.0508 inches. American Steel & Wire Company Wire Guage No.16 is 0.0625 inches. Birmingham or Stubs' Iron Wire Gauge No.16 is 0.065 inches. Birmingham Silver/Gold Wire Gauge No.16 is 0.051 inches. British Standard Wire Gauge No.16 is 0.064 inches. Imperial Standard Wire Gauge (SWG) No.16 is 0.064 inches. Instrument Wire Gauge No.16 is 0.064 inches. Roebling Wire Guage No.16 is 0.0625 inches. Stubbs' Steel Wire Gauge No.16 is 0.175 inches. Warrington Wire Gauge No.16 is 0.0625 or 1/16th inches. Washburn & Moen Manufacturing Company, Worcester, Mass; Wire Guage No.16 is 0.0625 inches. A 16 gauge MUSIC wire is a different fish kettle, vis: Alhoff & Muller Music Wire Gauge No.16 is 0.036 inches. American Steel & Wire Company Music Wire Guage No.16 is 0.037 inches. American Screw & Wire Company Music Wire Guage No.16 is 0.036 inches. W.N.Brunton Cast-Steel Music Wire No.16 is 0.036 inches. Felten & Guilleaume Music Wire Gauge No.16 is 0.0362 inches. Poehlmann Music Wie Guage is 0.037 inches. Roebling & Trenton Iron Company Music Wire Guage No.16 is 0.036 inches. Wright Wire Co. Music Wire Gauge No.16 is 0.036 inches. So you need a 36thou wire to give a No.16 Music Wire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L5Larry Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 Very interesting. I was wondering if the "music" wire part of the spec would change the definition. The real point I was trying to make was the fact that "guage" in itself is not a measurement, merely a designation that has to be converted to a measurement, such that 16 guage does not equal .016 inches. The fact that we call strings sizes "guages" in really a misnomer. In school in the 60's we were taught the metric system, because the whole world was going to use a common system of measurment. Well, that never happened. It sure would have made things simple if the US and UK had gone to the metric system along with the rest of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thermionik Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 How dare you sir - inches, feet, yards, pints and quarts and gallons to the bitter end. We'll have none of this metric talk. We will live and die by gross and dozen, brace and ream. None of this tens stuff, thank you VERY much..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L5Larry Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 How dare you sir - inches' date=' feet, yards, pints and quarts and gallons to the bitter end.[b']We'll have none of this metric talk.[/b] We will live and die by gross and dozen, brace and ream. None of this tens stuff, thank you VERY much..... Well, EXCUUUUUUUUSE me! Let's not forget these wonderfull units of English measurement that I'm sure everyone is familiar with and knows exactly what they define: Stone Grain Hand Furlong Rod Peck Barrel Gill Knot OK, I Wiki'd to get most of these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jefleppard Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 yet another informative thread. the metric system happened to us in canada in the 70's, (did anything good happen in the 70's?) but didn't fully take rather it only served to add another step to our estimations. eg... today's temp will be 27C. what's that? around 80F, i think. last night we had 10mm of rain. wow. that's sounds like alot. how much is that? almost half an inch, i think...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gearbasher Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 How dare you sir - inches' date=' feet, yards, pints and quarts and gallons to the bitter end.[b']We'll have none of this metric talk.[/b] We will live and die by gross and dozen, brace and ream. None of this tens stuff, thank you VERY much..... Ok, I googled "brace" and can't find any info. What is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWilson Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 Gearbasher- All the good Kamikazee pilots died in practice!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thermionik Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 Brace - as in 'I bagged three brace today'. A pair of game-birds, usually pheasants, ergo: they shot six. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gearbasher Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 Gearbasher- All the good Kamikazee pilots died in practice!! This kinda reminds me of an old joke. What's the last thing an instuctor at a Suicide Bombing School tells his students? Now class, I'm going to demonstrate this. Just once! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albertjohn Posted July 27, 2008 Author Share Posted July 27, 2008 Thanks all. I shall pass on the info to the chap concerned as I'm sure it will make more sense to him. Appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksdaddy Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 Huh? I wasn't listening, I was cleaning my Whitworth wrenches. Oops, I meant spanners. (Just playin' with ya, put down the cricket bat.) :D/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyK Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 "Gauge" is not metric. Gauge is a relative size, based on usage and material. From my undestanding of shot gun gauges, Gauge is determined by the number of spherical balls that can be made from a given a mass (weight) of lead, typically a pound, of the diameter of the gun into which the ball can be snuggly inserted. At the time of the Revolutionary War, soldiers typically supplied their own sholder arm and bullet or musketball mold. Most commonly the armory issued gunpowder and bulk lead, not bullets due to the various sizes of fire arms the soldiers brought with them. Basically, if a Revolutionary War soldier was issued a pound of lead, he knew he could melt, then pour that pound of lead into his 16 gauge ball mould and have 16 rounds in his ball pouch to fire in the morning. The soldier next to him could pour that same pound of melted lead into his 10 gauge ball mold and have 10 rounds to fire in the morning. Simple math will tell you that a 10 gauge ball is larger, and therefore heavier than a 16 gauge ball. In case you weren't paying attention, as the gauge numbers of shot gun bore goes up, the diameter in inches goes down. One exception in the shotgun world is the .410 bore shot gun, usually the smallest diametered of the shotguns. These are sometimes referred to, quite erroneously, as 410 gauge. "410 gauge" shot gun is a mis-nomer... unless of course someone makes a shotgun whose bore diamter is small enough to make four hundred and ten lead balls. This is not a gauge number, but a caliber number, similar to a rifle or pistol but as it has a smooth bore, it is not a rifle. The diameter of a .410 shot gun is .410 inches. I think the 'gauge' size of a .410 bore shotgun is has a gauge number in the neighborhood of 65. Wire gauge follows a similar definition. The gauge number is determined by the number of (???? I don't know, probably a given length) one can fabricate of a give diameter of wire from a given mass of metal. As wire gauges go up, their diameter goes down. 24 gauge electrical wire is nearly hair thin, while 12 gauge wire is fairly thick. Since the diameter if a given gauge of wire is factored by a given mass of metal. One should easily understand that 16 ga copper wire will be thinner than, say 16 ga aluminum (aluminium for the Brits). This is why the diameter of a given gauge of wire will fluctuate depending one what it's used for and who is doing the measuring. There is no correlation between wire gauge and shotgun gauge. Most men could easily place their thumb into a 12 gauge shotgun barrel. (don't try this at home) 12 gauge wire has a slightly larger diameter than pencil led. Since wire has many uses, different industries would have different rules for gauging. Electrical wire is measured differently than music wire. Since electrical wire and music wire are made of different materials and have different uses and are made of different materials, one can see that their gauging priciples would yield different diamter wires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thermionik Posted July 28, 2008 Share Posted July 28, 2008 Sorry - must have missed something..... Where do we say that gauge is metric? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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