Ok... Need some help from all you P93 Riviera owners please.

[Supersonic]

Okay, so next month is "new guitar month" for me and I've been planning on getting a stock cherry red Casino and adding a Bigsby B7. Now I'm not so sure, since the cost for that and a case would be about a grand. I really love the look of the P93 Rivera too and it is less expensive and already has a Bigsby, ect. However, I don't live near a GC or any place like that so I would have to order it.

 

Now for the problems lol.

I have heard SO many different opinions and reviews about the P93 Riv that range all the way from "Best guitar for the money, period" to "Terrible craftsmanship. Pickups are a joke,'Not bright and no bite'". Obviously I am a little skeptical.

 

I watched a set of very good youtube videos where a guy was playing his and demonstrating the sounds from all the different pickup combinations and it was definitely a little "muddy" sounding even when he had just the bridge pu on, the tone all the way up, and really digging into it. In another video, he had the pickups bypassing all of the electronics and it definitely sounded better. I've also heard that the pickup covers on the P93 Riv are actually metal?? Would changing to plastic covers help?

 

So I'm thinking about maybe getting the P93 and upgrading the pots, caps, nut, switch, jack, and changing the pickup covers (it'd still be cheaper than the Casino project). Do you guys think or know if replacing the pickup covers with, say, Gibson P90 plastic covers would help? If I have to get 3 new P90s, I might as well just get the Casino so I wouldn't be changing the pups most likely. So as my barrage of questions continues...

 

Which caps would you guys recommend for the P93? I've heard it with several different caps installed on videos online (but that's not really a great way to evaluate something I know). I liked the Orange drops and the Mallory's the best I think, with the Orange drops being my fav. So which Orange drops would you recommend for this guitar? The .022's?

 

The pots I assume are 500k?

 

I also read that the bridge pickup is on a riser block or something. Does this prevent any problems with lowering the action?

 

I've probably got a whole lot more questions about this, but I realize this is a lot of stuff I've already asked about. So if any of you guys can just bear with me and give me any pointers or help on this, I'd be eternally grateful!! :)

[midiman56]

I really do wirh I could help, Super ... but I've left my P93 Riv completely stock and I have no immediate plans to do any upgrades on it.

 

The guitar is just incredibly versatile ... anything from smooth jazz, blues and full-out rock tones can be handled by this beast. It blows the doors off my Epi Lucille tonally, and it's not the feedback howler that my Gretsch is a high volume (stays in tune better with Bigsby use as well). As for build quality, maybe I was just lucky, but I've found more cosmetic issues on $2500 Gibson ES335's than I have on this one. It's truly a gem!

 

I wouldn't base too much of my opinion on YouTube videos if I were you. Between crappy camcorder mics and the huge amount of compression that YT uses, most guitars don't exactly sound their best. The first move is to actually get your hands on one of these things and live with it for a while before ripping it's guts out. Some amp tweaking and fiddeling with the controls mght just save you some $$$'s and some time!

 

Have at it!

 

Jim

[crust]

If you are comfortable doing the upgrades I'd say go for it. This is a pretty cool guitar (for the price). I haven't put on plastic pickup covers but doing so supposedly helps with the tone. The pickup covers are shaped to fit the curved contour of the top surface of the guitar, I don't know whether that would be a problem. The riser block should not interfere with anything. I put a roller bridge on mine.

 

Good luck, post pics, keep us informed.

[brianh]

The jack is the first thing to go - the threads stripped out within a month on mine, although the stock electronics in the MIC P93 ar no worse/better than the MIC Casinos AFAIK. Some folks don't like the knock-off Kluson tuners, although I've had no complaints so far. I have also added a roller bridge, but it didn't seem to make much difference to me. P93s are a lot of guitar for the money, but frankly unless you're in love with the three P90 arrangement, a nice Casino with a Bigsby is a more appealing guitar to me - it's simpler and more aesthetically pleasing to my eye.

 

Also, two-pickup archtops are a beyotch to rewire, I can't imagine how difficult it will be with 3 pups and that crazy 3V / 1T arrangement, especially for your first go at it. And don't forget that the P93 is a Riviera with a center block, and the Casino is a true hollowbody, so if you're aiming for playing loud, the P93 would be a better choice.

 

One more thing - P90s covers are not standardized, see what Jason Lollar has to say about this: http://www.lollarguitars.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=p90-dogear-sizing-notes

[Supersonic]

Thanks for the info guys! Yeah, if I do indeed get the P93, I will definitely leave it stock for a week or two before messing around with the electronics, just so I can decide if actually NEED to change anything instead of doing it just because. Hopefully, I'll get a sweet one like yours midiman and not have to do as much as I thought I would. I'll change the nut, switch, and jack anyway no matter what, but hopefully it won't need a complete overhaul.

 

Nice link brian h. Good info there. And I'm not really in love with the whole 3 pickup configuration so to speak, but I am in love with the price!

 

I'd still like to get some more info on all of this stuff, so keep it coming!

 

Thanks again!

[charlie brown]

Ahhh, Casino and P-93LE Riviera's! BOTH, are excellent gutairs..IMHO. I have both,

(my Casino is a Gibson made (Kalamazoo) 1966) and sounds incredible. BUT...the P-93

is a Great guitar, on it's own. Build quality, on mine at least, is great! Finish is

as good, or better, than some guitars (Gibson's included, save the "Nitro/Poly" debate)

costing far more. I'm used to 3 pickup guitars (Strats, and Ric's, too), so the comfort

thing, with having a middle pickup, is a non-issue, with me. I know it IS an issue,

for other folks. Just have to decide what's best for you...play them both, through the

same amp/settings (at least at first), then tweak to your pleasure. That should help,

a lot, in making your decision. Everyone's different, in preferences, so...best you

try 'em both. MF and other On-Line dealers have decent return policies, so that shouldn't

be a (real) factor. Good Luck. Oh, and pole-screw adjustments, will make some difference

as well. I left my neck pickup factory settings, lowered the middle

pickup pole-screws, a bit...and actually raised the bridge screws, just a bit. Really growls,

nicely, now. ;>)

 

CB

[wardog]

i have the inspired by john lennon casino and the p93 and love them both. I got my p93 just after charlie b and i can't agree more with his post. There is a difference in loudness(p93 is a best). I thought the casino with the gibson usa p90 would be louder. the build quality on mines was great say for some over spray on the left horn. some polishing and damn that looks sharp.

 

I love them both and plan to keep the p93 stock. I was considering changing the tuners, but will wait do to the fact i have no issues with them.

 

on the mod note, i did mode the ibjl casino do to ground issue and boy what a cluster f(*&&& trying to get the guts back in. 3 mins to redo ground, 20 to fish it all back in and that was using the string thru the holes method . So, if you do decide to mod any 335 style- patience young jedi

[bynapkinart]

My experience with the P93 is limited to playing 3 different ones 3 different times whilst expecting to be impressed. It didn't get my attention at all. With any new guitar I'm GASing over (and trust me, a beautiful red Riviera with P90s and a Bigsby was extremely GAS inducing), I try to pick one up and test it with a Vox AC15CC1 or something of the sort. Usually I can work something out but with the P93 the P90s were so....un-P90-like. They didn't react and breakup like a good P90 should, they didn't impress me at all...I was very disappointed because the stock P90s in my Casino were incredible. Granted, those could be switched out for something else, but the gold hardware was already flaking off and the Bigsby was meh.

 

Now, the Casino on the other hand....is probably the best guitar I've ever played. I've modded mine quite a bit, but even stock it blew me out of the water. It would be easy enough to install a Bigsby on a stock cherry Casino.

 

Either way, play both and decide for yourself. Maybe the P93 would be great with a little help! Maybe I'm just hard to please . Hey, it keeps me from buying stuff! Kind of.

[bloozeguy]

I'm just looking at your dilemma (likes the Casino, blown away by the P93 layout, won't have a chance to play it, reviews mixed), and another (Epiphone) option come to mind--WildKat. Semi-hollow (i.e. with center block, body a bit smaller than most semis), 2 P90s, Bigsby, nothing but rave reviews, as I recall, throughout these pages.

FYI--Harmony Central reviews of the P93 Riv have also been very mixed

[i Can Tuna Guitar]

Here's something that could be an interesting alternative - and cheap, too

 

Semi-hollow P90 Guitar

[Supersonic]

Here's something that could be an interesting alternative - and cheap, too

 

Semi-hollow P90 Guitar

 

 

Those don't look bad at all. Anyone ever played one?

 

 

Anyway, despite my efforts to find a less expensive alternative, I've spent all morning listening to Rubber Soul and Revolver and my "inner-Beatle" will not be satisfied with anything but a Casino. Thanks to everyone for all the info on the P93, I really appreciate it, you guys rock! It does seem like a good guitar and hearing you guys describe the quality of yours made me more optimistic about it, but alas I don't think I will be really happy without the Casino. It might take me longer to save up for it and the Bigsby, but it'll be worth it. (unless I start thinking about going for the IBJL or the Elitist....Oh god)

[brianh]

Epi did make a Casino reissue with a Bigsby stock for a while. It came out in '06, I believe: http://www.epiphone.com/news.asp?NewsID=443

 

Someone here has a stunning one that I was drooling over, but I can't remember who or find the pic. Here's a stand in:

 

[Supersonic]

Epi did make a Casino reissue with a Bigsby stock for a while. It came out in '06, I believe: http://www.epiphone.com/news.asp?NewsID=443

 

Someone here has a stunning one that I was drooling over, but I can't remember who or find the pic. Here's a stand in:

 

 

 

Wish they would have made a cherry red one w/ Bigsby though.

[midiman56]

Here's something that could be an interesting alternative - and cheap, too

 

Semi-hollow P90 Guitar

 

 

Those don't look bad at all. Anyone ever played one?

 

Yes ... I have. The guy that I got my Xavier XV-JT40 from has that very guitar. It is one impressive guitar for $250! It's hard to believe that GFS can sell such solid axes for the chump-change that they charge, Are they God's gift? Is it as good as a Casino or Riv? Well ... no, but for less than the price of a stripped down faded Dot it is one hell of a bargain.

 

Jim

[bynapkinart]

Oh no, I think I might have something that might get your GAS going....

 

 

It's my modded Casino which I just spent 4 hours playing some blues out live, along with some Beatles covers and Radiohead covers. You will not be disappointed at all in your choice! Good luck!!

[Darrell999]

Ok, I'm late to the party here, and I know that the original poster has come to a decision, but for the sake of anyone else interested in the P93, here's some random observations from my experience. I've had the P93 Riviera for about a month now.

 

Some people think the pickups are too dark--and I tend to agree with them,the way the guitar is shipped, but there are two things that do make a difference:

1) The pickup covers are metal--they look like plastic, but they are black painted metal. I ordered plastic dog-ear covers from Stewmac.com for $9, and the pickups do sound a bit brighter and clearer without the metal covers. The covers are super easy to change--just unscrew the old ones, and screw in the new ones. No unsoldering or anything.

2) When I adjusted the pole pieces, they sounded much better. I generally raised most of them to match the radius more, but kept the low E string pole piece low, because the bass seems pretty strong already. Just adjust them to where it sounds good to you. Definitely made a difference for me.

 

Of course, one man's "dark" is another man's "smooth" just like one man's "bright" is another man's "ice-pick." Tone is so subjective. But yeah, I don't think I need to change the pickups--some tweaking like I mentioned above definitely does the trick (for me, anyway).

 

Speaking of bass, I found that for playing clean, there was a bit too much grit--almost kind of like clipping--but when I turn the amp EQ's bass setting down, the guitar sounds much better. I guess it also depends on the amp(s). Overdrive pedals sound fantastic on this guitar!

 

I adjusted the bridge a bit lower for my preference for the action, but the bridge pickup is on a raised piece of wood that makes me keep the action just a hair higher than I would like--otherwise, the string hits the bridge pole pieces, and I had some dead notes on the highest fret. I read on another forum that someone was thinking of sanding the bridge spacer down, but I haven't done that--I'm not sure if that would be too complicated or not--just haven't had the time yet to see if the spacer is glued on or not. Anyway, it's a minor point, because the action is still pretty good.

 

The finish, fretwork, and inlays are absolutely perfect! Such a quality job on a beautiful guitar! The neck is very smooth playing, and it just feels like quality. Lovely resonant sound, too.

 

This is actually my second P93. The first one that I bought from Guitar Center was great, except that there was a loose connection on the bridge volume pot. When I would turn the guitar slightly, it would cut out. I took it back, and they ordered a new one. The second one is perfect! And it's a bit darker wine red than the first one, which I actually prefer...so bonus!

 

I really like all the different tones you can get out of this with the 3 different volume pots--you can take the middle pickup out or blend it in however you want it. I saw one review on musiciansfriend where the reviewer said that all the pickups sounded almost the same--Lol! It sounds like he didn't know the controls and had the middle pickup on all the time... This guitar is really quite versatile with all the different sounds you can get with the different combinations.

[ryan7olson7]

I got myself a p93 from musicians friend as a "used" guitar. it has a very slight crack in the finish by the nut. no big deal as the wood is not cracked. i paid $209.00 and it has been one of the best epiphones ive had. you will need to replace at least the front and bridge pickup covers to open up the sound,(my opinion) i replaced all three with plastic covers from stew mac, but the plastic ones are a bit higher so it might bug you while picking, ymmv. i also replaced the tone cap with a .022 orange drop, and it is one of my best sounding guitars. the combination of the semi hollow body and the p90's just kills, and you can almost get "strat 2/4 position quack sounds" out of it when you blend in the middle with either the bridge or neck pickup. all in all a great guitar and a bit more solid/stable than the casino. either way you'll be good. oh yeah, for a different look i reshaped the pickguard to a more gibson like shape, added gold thumbcutters, and black reflector knobs.

[ryan7olson7]

Oh no, I think I might have something that might get your GAS going....

 

 

It's my modded Casino which I just spent 4 hours playing some blues out live, along with some Beatles covers and Radiohead covers. You will not be disappointed at all in your choice! Good luck!!

 

DUDE! that is a killer looking casino!!! where did you get that pickguard? that is a looker!!!

[ryan7olson7]

Oh no, I think I might have something that might get your GAS going....

 

 

It's my modded Casino which I just spent 4 hours playing some blues out live, along with some Beatles covers and Radiohead covers. You will not be disappointed at all in your choice! Good luck!!

 

DUDE! that is a killer looking casino!!! where did you get that pickguard? that is a looker!!!