mydeadblues Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 I need some help with my truss rod! So I just picked up this MIK Riviera and the strings on it were months old. I cleaned up the guitar and put some new elixir 10 gauged on it but now there's buzzing on open strings and on the first few frets :/. I raised the action on the bridge but it didn't help much. So I'm thinking the neck needs to be adjusted...I just took off the truss rod plate and I'm sitting here staring at it in confusion. I don't have much experience with adjusting the truss rod so I looked over in the do it yourself forum and on some videos on youtube but I don't think I have it figured out exactly. I loosened it some to try to stop the buzzing and raised the bridge even further. The truss rod looks really loose now; I'm not sure if loosening it more will do anything. From everything I looked at I'm pretty sure I need to loosen it am I right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilpanda Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 STOP RIGHT THERE! Have you not read your owner manual? If you are unsure about adjusting the truss rod take it to an EXPERIENCED luthier/shop if there if too much adjustment done, you may cause permanent damage to your neck. I hope that guitar is still well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mydeadblues Posted February 4, 2011 Author Share Posted February 4, 2011 I usually do take it to a tech to get it set up, but I really want to learn how to adjust the truss rod myself. I'm not drastically turning it one way or another and I'm looking at more info on the truss rod before I proceed and damage the instrument... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mydeadblues Posted February 4, 2011 Author Share Posted February 4, 2011 How "loose" should the truss rod feel when you turn it? Is it okay for the rod to be loose enough to tighten by hand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom99SS Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Here is a link that may help Gibson Basic Guitar Steup If you do not have a straightedge then just use the Low E string as a straightedge by pressing down at the first fret and the fret where the neck meets the body (usually the 16th fret on a Les Paul). You ae looking for a gap at the 7th fret of about .010 You can use an old High E string to assist in this measurement if your High E strings is a .010 gauge string. Also, after adjusting the truss rod let it settle for a couple of hours before rechecking. If the truss rod is hard to turn STOP. Take it to your guitar tech and have them look at it before the truss rod is damaged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgrmatt Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Something I didn't see mentioned, I usually take a perm marker and make a mark at the top of the truss rod nut to give me a ref point as to where I started. As always small adjustments and patience. mgm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mydeadblues Posted February 4, 2011 Author Share Posted February 4, 2011 So I let it sit over night after loosening the truss rod, but there's still open fret buzz ! I can loosen the rod effortlessly, is that normal? Should it feel that loose? It felt that way when I first took off the cover though... I keep loosening it a little every couple of hours or so but I still can't get it to stop buzzing. I'm hoping the nut doesn't need to be replaced . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james_edward Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 Not to worry, you can't really do any damage by loosening the truss rod, just cause set up issues, not damage. The truss rod nut will feel loose and should eventually come out in your hand if you keep turning counterclockwise, pretty straightforward. First I would determine if the nut is too low by fretting the E strings at the second and check if you have clearance between the string bottom and the top of the first fret. As long as you have a paper thickness gap plus in there, on each E string, your nut is probably fine, so… One time tested remedy for a neck with a properly cut nut, that has too much backbow and won’t come back even when the rod is totally loose (as in still buzzing on 1st 2nd 3rd fret) is… Loosen the rod to the max, string it up with 12’s, tune it up to a half step over standard and wait a few days. It should come back fine and you should end up with way too much relief, at which point you can start reading about set-ups, relief etc. At that point just loosen the strings and start adding some rod (clockwise rotation) until you get the proper relief. Many will tell you that once the truss rod nut has some tension on it (quarter turn after touch down), that you should only add a quarter turn clockwise at a time, then "wait for the wood to catch up", so to speak. Probably good advice that you can follow to ensure you don't put too much pressure on the neck. Have fun and keep us posted, J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The.Traffic.Lights Posted February 4, 2011 Share Posted February 4, 2011 So I let it sit over night after loosening the truss rod, but there's still open fret buzz ! I can loosen the rod effortlessly, is that normal? Should it feel that loose? It felt that way when I first took off the cover though... I keep loosening it a little every couple of hours or so but I still can't get it to stop buzzing. I'm hoping the nut doesn't need to be replaced . Take the strings off and take the measurements of the nut slot heights. Nut replacement is not a too difficult task. If you loosen the rod all the way and the problem is still there, I wouldn't blame the bow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fringe Lunatic Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 MDB, what are the clearances (from top of fret to bottom of string) of the E strings at the 12th fret? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mydeadblues Posted February 5, 2011 Author Share Posted February 5, 2011 Not to worry, you can't really do any damage by loosening the truss rod, just cause set up issues, not damage. The truss rod nut will feel loose and should eventually come out in your hand if you keep turning counterclockwise, pretty straightforward. First I would determine if the nut is too low by fretting the E strings at the second and check if you have clearance between the string bottom and the top of the first fret. As long as you have a paper thickness gap plus in there, on each E string, your nut is probably fine, so… One time tested remedy for a neck with a properly cut nut, that has too much backbow and won’t come back even when the rod is totally loose (as in still buzzing on 1st 2nd 3rd fret) is… Loosen the rod to the max, string it up with 12’s, tune it up to a half step over standard and wait a few days. It should come back fine and you should end up with way too much relief, at which point you can start reading about set-ups, relief etc. At that point just loosen the strings and start adding some rod (clockwise rotation) until you get the proper relief. Many will tell you that once the truss rod nut has some tension on it (quarter turn after touch down), that you should only add a quarter turn clockwise at a time, then "wait for the wood to catch up", so to speak. Probably good advice that you can follow to ensure you don't put too much pressure on the neck. Have fun and keep us posted, J. I just fretted the 2nd and there isn't any clearance at the first fret so I'm thinking I need a new nut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mydeadblues Posted February 5, 2011 Author Share Posted February 5, 2011 MDB, what are the clearances (from top of fret to bottom of string) of the E strings at the 12th fret? about .068" on big E and about .057" on little E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fringe Lunatic Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 about .068" on big E and about .057" on little E The nominal buzzless settings established by Epiphone, as shown in the owner's manual, are 6/64 (.094) inch and 4/64 (.063) inch, which means your low E side action is lower than spec. Epiphone doesn't warrant the action below that. Buzz-free playing may be difficult to achieve that low, depending on other factors including type/gauge of strings, neck relief, playing style, and condition & level of frets. Try raising the low E side of the bridge a tad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mydeadblues Posted February 5, 2011 Author Share Posted February 5, 2011 The nominal buzzless settings established by Epiphone, as shown in the owner's manual, are 6/64 (.094) inch and 4/64 (.063) inch, which means your low E side action is lower than spec. Epiphone doesn't warrant the action below that. Buzz-free playing may be difficult to achieve that low, depending on other factors including type/gauge of strings, neck relief, playing style, and condition & level of frets. Try raising the low E side of the bridge a tad. I put the bridge all the way up and the action on the guitar was high but surprisingly still comfortable. Unfortunately, there is still open fret buzz on the A and D strings. I'm pretty sure my neck is too straight and needs a little relief to stop the buzzing, but when the truss rod is at its loosest point it's still not enough relief. I might try putting the 12 gauge strings tuned up a step as mentioned earlier. The good news is I bought this used from Guitarcenter and they have a 30 day return policy :). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mydeadblues Posted February 5, 2011 Author Share Posted February 5, 2011 The culprit is there on the left... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctguy1955 Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 http://s968.photobucket.com/albums/ae168/CTguy1955/gibsonandepinuts.jpg I received my new studio on May 1st and it could not be played as the setup was bad and I was told the truss rod needed to be loosened. The metal frets were sticking out of the fretboard and hurt your fingers and I did not notice the spots on the neck. The authorized luther had my guitar for over 4 weeks and when I got it back it played well, but the metal frets were still sharp, and he fixed the blemish on the neck. He was also kind enough to modify my new guitar by putting a dent in the body near the tone knob. I had to send it back to him. He filled the hole he put in the guitar but could not fix the "light bending" produced by his fix on the finish, so he sent it back to nashville. Nashville re-did the body finish and did a really fantastic job, but now I notice a huge dent near the jack plate !!! I sent it back to nashville. Now Ive owned the guitar for months and months and have only held it for 25 days. I get the guitar back and again Nashville did a really wonderful job on my body and its the way it should have been when I got the guitar on May 1st. The guitar has a lot of buzz, I took off the Gibson strings and put D'Addario 10's on it with a earnie ball wound G string, the way I like it. I wanted to add some relief to the neck, and when I took off the truss rod cover the nut was only hand tight. I have not gone from 420 to 480 in hopes of it slowly being able to get the neck to where it will meet the nut. I have now gone hand tight and then loosened it up one full turn, and I will let it sit. I read where I should put 12's on the guitar instead to get it to gently bow the way I would like so that the nut would at least be able to give me some relief. I would appreciate any advice but I will NOT bring this guitar back to the AUTHORIZED Gibson luther who dented it twice now, and his workshop is NOT heat controlled and got over 100 degrees this summer where he could not work in his own shop. The conditions of his shop probably made my wood shrink and the metal frets stick out....... after he supposedly sanded em down and gibson paid him to do it. I want to know if my Studio nut is suppose to look like my 2007 EPI nut.....are the strings suppose to ride up on the nut and not sit all the way down in the slot. I put thinner strings then what it came with too !!! Thanks for any advice !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spamonkis Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 http://s968.photobucket.com/albums/ae168/CTguy1955/gibsonandepinuts.jpg Thanks for any advice !!!! Ask players around your area and find a real luthier! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctguy1955 Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Ask players around your area and find a real luthier! My Gibson can only be brought to a Authorized one, or I will lose my lifetime warranty. There are only two authorized ones in Connecticut and the one I did not use lives an hour and a half away. Boston area has 5 or 6, but thats over two hours away. Its pretty sad that you cant trust someone to respect your guitar. I know my studio was only 1280 bucks, but I wanted the nice case and the new studio push/pull coils. http://s968.photobucket.com/albums/ae168/CTguy1955/MikesGuitars.jpg my guitars http://s968.photobucket.com/albums/ae168/CTguy1955/MikesGuitars003.jpg side view I never had a single problem with my strats, or my used 2007 EPI that was made in China. It make me feel so good to buy a new USA made product and put Americans to work. My USA made Strat puts my two used MIM strats to shame, with the feel of the frets. I recently bought a new USA Taylor 314CE and its in impeccable condition as well. My 2012 Gibson Studio now has a perfect looking body, and its just a matter of getting the neck to eventually bow forward using the tight strings. So far, its been a week and I see no change at all. That is why I am asking for advice. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amx05462 Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 in the mean time you might want to go on youtube and look up the name dan erlewine. and or buy his book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctguy1955 Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 in the mean time you might want to go on youtube and look up the name dan erlewine. and or buy his book. I cant steam or do too much, or I will void my lifetime warranty, but I appreciate the advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amx05462 Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 not talking about steaming it . but his vids and book give alot of detail as to truss rod ajustment and just about everything else. i did heat a neck on an old marwin guitar from the 30s though it was un playable. you might laugh but i put it on my workbench on two pieces of metal clamped it in the middle of the neck and put a heating pad on the back of the neck and tightened a the clamp a bit. then let it cool over night. believe it or not . the neck streightened out. this guitar had no ajustable truss rod . who knows if it even has a beam in it. point of that story was i got the idea from that book. not the heating pad but the general idea. so i made a useless piece of junk into a nice player that sounds great. what you might want to do is this. get a streight edge thats long enough to go from the nut to the last fret at the body and see which way the neck is bowed. if you have that truss rod as loose as you say and there isnt clearace from one end to the other then you may have either a loose fret or something like that . if the neck is back bowed thats another story . theres no way it should be back bowed with the truss rod loose. anyhow if you got clearance all the way . with the strings off then ajust thr truss rod tighter till all the frets just hit the streight edge. once you get there re string the guitar and tune to pitch and you should be within 1/2 turn either way to solve your problem. that is if you didnt move the bridge height. if you did then you need to set that back to factory height.. then tweak the truss rod. thats how i been doing it for years. btw. while you got that nut nice and loose why not lubricate it. might save alot of trouble later on. i can personally tell you that some epiphone truss rod nuts are soft and can strip out. it happened to my grandsons sg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctguy1955 Posted November 26, 2012 Share Posted November 26, 2012 Thank you so much for your help amx05462 !!! The American Gibson is a 2012 and the neck is as straight as can be. I tightened the strings from 420 HZ to 480 HZ on my tuner and it is slowly bringing the neck forward, but slow like a turtle with four broken legs. I think I will buy some 12's and put them on and use more tension. I spoke to a luthier in CT who says he will use "Heat Rods" to warm up my neck and it will give me relief, but its an hour and a half trip both ways and I have to do it once to drop it off and another time to pick it up. My 97 truck gets about 16 miles to the gallon and while my guitar is worth it, I just wish there was a better way. I have a pellet stove that puts out a nice amount of heat when you are 18" from the out vent that has a fan blowing......but I dont want to do anything myself that can hurt my guitar or negate my warranty. At least putting 12's on it wont hurt for now. Time will tell !! Thanks for all of your help. I played the gibson on my Vox AC15C2 the other day and I did not hear any fret buzz, so it may be getting better now !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctguy1955 Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 My 2012 Studio was shipped by me to Nashville for the third time, and this time I sent a 4 page letter asking them to TRY to do a proper setup with the bridge and strings set at factory standards and the intonation set, and they sent me an email this morning saying they are putting my 2012 Studio in the scrap heap. They also said a Mr Roger Ball would be in contact with me soon, to discuss me getting another replacement guitar. The Gibson Authorized Luther who kept my guitar for 4 weeks and two days and then dented it twice where it had to go back to Nashville twice, had to have known that my truss rod nut was loose and that no further adjustment could be done on my guitar, but instead of letting me know that, so I could return the guitar for a full refund, He did all kinds of work on it so gibson could pay him several times for doing the work, and he took 130 from me to change the plastics and file down the rough frets and the edges that were sticking out past the wood of the fretboards. Being in the Gibson Luther's 100 degree plus walk in basement many have caused half of the problems my guitar had with dripping cellulose on the neck and other things, but I dont know as he was very bad at communicating with me. He had the guitar for almost 4 months total before he shipped it off to gibson the first time. That gibson never did a proper setup the first or second time, but only on the third time did they say " you have a LEMON, and it cant be fixed " so I feel that improvement can be made all around. I would like for gibson to get with my Manchester CT Guitar Center store and give me a refund for the 1264 I spent on the guitar at the store ( with tax ) and the 130 for what I paid the Luther, and I will pay an additional 980 dollars and I would like a bound neck with no metal frets sticking out as in a Wine Red Traditional PLUS that is a 60's neck and is a special made for Guitar Center only by Gibson. Lets see if Gibson can come through for me, as I hope they will. And please dont forget my "7" in the serial number as all of my other guitars have. http://s968.photobucket.com/albums/ae168/CTguy1955/myguitars.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amx05462 Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 well thats alot of tension on the headstock.. dont forget theres a scarf joint there. if the glue gives out before the wood moves below thats a major fix. you have plenty of tension on it now if you put a heating pad on the back of the neck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amx05462 Posted February 21, 2013 Share Posted February 21, 2013 this was how i did it but since you have all that string tension. all you should need is that heating pad. the guitar in the picture had a real high action at the body i could put my finger under the strings. when done and cooled . it came right into line with where i wanted it. bear in mind theres no truss rod in this one so i had to do it all with the heat from the pad. they will never know you did it with this method. if your curius what else i did with this guitar that was a mess wheni bought it. theres alot more pics on that facebook page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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