mooseguy Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 The Flatiron "concept" was just a copy of the 1917 Gibson Army/Navy mandolin. There were no Flatiron guitars. Henry moved the acoustic guitars from Nashville to Bozeman for several reasons. The biggest is that Ren was there and there was a big resource for craftsman and artisans in the Bozeman area. They had a great work ethic and there was plenty of talent to chose from. One of the great stories with the Flatiron saga is that of Bruce Weber. Bruce is one of the most talented luthiers on the planet. He started out as a potter. His wonderful wife Mary started out in the Gibson/Montana shipping dept. The 1990 price list: J-30 $1125.00 J-45 $1319.00 J-50 $1349.00 J-100 $1435.00 J-180 $1535.00 Hummingbird $1685.00 Dove $1815.00 J-185 $1854.00 Advanced Jumbo $1999.00r J-200 $2019.00 Hogeye: Thanks a million for your really great early Bozeman history. I am fortunate enough to own a Bozeman 93 Excellente reissue which is one great sounding guitar. Should you know, what price did they list for? Regards, Moose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hogeye Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 Very high gloss and no orange peel so this one is probably lacquer. Wow! Very nice guitar. Is the pickgard original? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hogeye Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 Hogeye: Thanks a million for your really great early Bozeman history. I am fortunate enough to own a Bozeman 93 Excellente reissue which is one great sounding guitar. Should you know, what price did they list for? Regards, Moose Hi Moose: I love that name... The Excellente is a remarkable guitar. Gibson made a huge mistake when they didn't let Montana build all of their guitars. Lots of politics were involved and it was quite an in house struggle. I remember hearing a couple of Gibson employees having quite a heated argument at the time. One was a good friend so I naturally took his side. The Excellente retailed for $2,500.00. I played one at Music Villa and never forgot it. It had huge power. Rosewood square shoulder and long scale. Wow.... Probably the coolest pickgard of all time. I couldn't buy the guitar as I was out of work at the time but I did buy the denim jacket. I still have it... By the way the Frontier was $1,799.00 and the Texan was $1,099.00. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hogeye Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 Fabulous Flat-tops has the switch from Fullerplast to nitro somewhat later, in late '90 (p. 172). Is that just wrong, or was there a mix of Fullerplast and nitro finishing for awhile? -- Bob R Eldon Whitford is never wrong. The production line guitars were Fullerplast to the date he says. The early '89 guitars could have been sprayed with nitro before the spray booth was configured. This sounds like a great question for the folks lucky enough to go to the "Homrecoming" to ask. We will all look forward to the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksdaddy Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 Wow! Very nice guitar. Is the pickgard original? The guard is not original. The original one was pretty much devoid of flora. I scored a NOS one on ebay but it was the newer version (that looked like the older ones....) with the yellow dots. I didn't care for it as much on this particular guitar because it wasn't '89 style. The '89 is very laid back and soft looking (huh?) and the yellow dotted one just jumped out at you, drawing your eyes to it and away from the whole picture. I found another NOS one but closer to the 89 style. Before applying it I brushed on about 7 coats of lacquer, then wet sanded and buffed. It's held up better than normal but at the same time I'm not advocating that method. I just did an A-B comparison of the 1989 vs. the 2000. The 1989 definitely has more of an orange peel effect, but I wouldn't have thought anything of it, as it does shine nicely. If I had no knowledge of the Fullerplast vs. lacquer I would have just chalked it up to how it was sprayed or buffed that day, it's that subtle. As to tone, there is a small difference between them; the 1989 has a thick thump with a lot of bass while the 2000 has a more balanced tone, possibly brighter with more sustain. I figured it was a combination of sycamore vs Eastern Maple, the different bridges, some minor differencs in bracing, maybe the dovetail even has an effect, who knows..., different brand/gauge of strings, and the general rule that no two guitars sound exactly alike. So the '89 is very likely Fullerplast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooseguy Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 Hi Moose: I love that name... The Excellente is a remarkable guitar. Gibson made a huge mistake when they didn't let Montana build all of their guitars. Lots of politics were involved and it was quite an in house struggle. I remember hearing a couple of Gibson employees having quite a heated argument at the time. One was a good friend so I naturally took his side. The Excellente retailed for $2,500.00. I played one at Music Villa and never forgot it. It had huge power. Rosewood square shoulder and long scale. Wow.... Probably the coolest pickgard of all time. I couldn't buy the guitar as I was out of work at the time but I did buy the denim jacket. I still have it... By the way the Frontier was $1,799.00 and the Texan was $1,099.00. Hogeye: Thanks loads for your info on the Excellente reissue. Gibson informed me they only made 23 before they stopped.Did you ever hear about the 8 that Bozeman made for a Japanese collector? I owned No.2 and was dumb enough to sell it as it had an adjustable bridge and sounded crappy as compared to mine which doesn't have one and which I already owned. Moose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambler Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 0ver on RMGA (rec makers acoustic--some knowledgeable folks, there), it's been said that 90-92 were good years (especially 92) but that things slipped a bit through 95 or so. Better after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-1854Me Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 So the '89 is very likely Fullerplast. I had my 89 J-100 at the factory for its ten-year-checkup, and Ren examined it and told me that it had the fullerplast finish on it. I think it was a "200"-ish serial number, as in 82xx90xx. I seem to recall maybe 272 or so..... I think yours, Scott, is serial numbered a bit ahead of that one, right? Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-1854Me Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 0ver on RMGA (rec makers acoustic--some knowledgeable folks, there), it's been said that 90-92 were good years (especially 92) but that things slipped a bit through 95 or so. Better after that. I'd generally agree with that, but I might put it from 94-97 as "dodgy" quality years. Always, like the English language, though, lots of exceptions! Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewilyfool Posted April 20, 2011 Author Share Posted April 20, 2011 My '94 L-20 has some "fit and finish" issues like some kind of dis-coloration on the back indian rosewood (see upper bout on back photo), and the routing for the top binding is a little rough between the spruce top and binding,....but I just LOVE this guitar.......VERY woody sound......braces are very high and thin so I think they were working off some of the vintage bracing sizes and layout. Still, love the sound and can get past the fit and finish stuff....PLUS....love the "V" neck and 1 13/16" nut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksdaddy Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 I think yours, Scott, is serial numbered a bit ahead of that one, right? Fred Yep, 174. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucque Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Hi there just stumbled onto this group and forum. I've been wondering what the first serial numbers were to come out of the Bozeman factory. I have a J-200, Serial # 82729007. Near as I can tell it was manufactured on the 272nd day –Oct.2nd 1989 number 7 for that day and stamped "WorkShop" on the middle strip inside. I bought it from John Ramsey in Colorado Springs ( great luthier and great guy, by the way) I haven't had any luck getting information from Gibson on this guitar, they just don't answer my queries, don't know why. Wondering about the designation "WorkShop" and also about the first J-200 Serial numbers. It's a great guitar. I also own a Dove (94), ES 330 (Kalamazoo 67") J-50 (Kalamazoo 73), l-130 (2000) so I guess I'm a Gibson fan ! Buck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibson CS Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 I haven't had any luck getting information from Gibson on this guitar, they just don't answer my queries, don't know why. Hi, Where did you send the inquiry to? Please let me know and I'll look into it. The serial# does tell us that it's an '89, ship date was 10/17/89. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucque Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 I sent the inquiry to a link on Gibson.com web page. About a year and a half ago...Gruhn's guitars were slightly more helpful, but were't sure about the "WorkShop" stamp It's a great guitar, wouldn't trade it for anything ! Kinda wondering what the first set of serial numbers were, I figured mine is among the first, but without number identification, I wouldn't be sure. Thanks for responding ! Buck Where did you send the inquiry to? Please let me know and I'll look into it. The serial# does tell us that it's an '89, ship date was 10/17/89. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucque Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 OK,..so it doesn't seem like a really difficult set of questions. The serial number of the first J200 produced in the Bozeman facility, and the significance of the "workshop" stamp inside the guitar. If someone at the factory took the time to burn it into the wood,..it must mean something....... Buck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarrr Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 Interesting.. I tried a 1993 J200 Montana Gold last week. It had been well taken care of over the years but the tone was not up to par. A knowledgeable Gibson fried said the same things about the lesser quality in that undefined 90s period. A good J200 is definately a steinway in the lap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rar Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 OK,..so it doesn't seem like a really difficult set of questions. The serial number of the first J200 produced in the Bozeman facility, and the significance of the "workshop" stamp inside the guitar. None of this stuff gets written down anywhere. It's a Gibson tradition! The only way that the "WorkShop" question will get answered is if someone who was there at the time still remembers. -- Bob R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucque Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Hard to believe that a company with a brand new factory, new employees,... attempting to recover their tarnished reputation,.. wouldn't keep track of the serial numbers of the guitars they are manufacturing.... None of this stuff gets written down anywhere. It's a Gibson tradition! The only way that the "WorkShop" question will get answered is if someone who was there at the time still remembers. -- Bob R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zipster100 Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 I have a J-45 that was custom ordered by Dave's Guitars. They told me they ordered a batch of 20 of them. Gibson couldn't tell me anything at all about the guitar. They asked me what the sides were made of. Btw, mahogany. I was trying to find out if the top was Sitka or Adi, I don't think they kept those kind of records. Dave's Guitars did tell me that the were done in lacquer without a filler coat to keep them light and open. Does anyone know anything about these guitars? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slimt Posted April 1, 2015 Share Posted April 1, 2015 Hogeye: Thanks a million for your really great early Bozeman history. I am fortunate enough to own a Bozeman 93 Excellente reissue which is one great sounding guitar. Should you know, what price did they list for? Regards, Moose I think I may have a catalog page of the three Epiphones including the Exellente.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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